Javier Vazquez

[Milkman delivers]

So if we hang onto Vazquez and he rebounds next season (which I think he will, think of the Contreras situation all over again), we trade Garcia for some prospects (Cesar Carillo anyone?), and Young is a bust, is it still a bad trade?

 

It's just too early to judge still IMHO.

Doesn't this EXACTLY remind you of Contreras when we acquired him?

 

NO

 

Jose Contreras was just about the greatest pitcher in Cuban history. Javier Vazquez is not Jose Contreras. And as I've said before, it's a slap in the Count's face to even compare him to Javy. The book on Vazquez is out. He will never ever put it all together. He will always have that one dominating game maybe once a month (if we're lucky) that everyone will use to defend him. And he'll get shellacked half of the time. Contreras and Vazquez are both hispanic, have good stuff, and make a lot of money. That's about all they have in common. Contreras dominated entire nations in international play and had a damn good rookie year. Vazquez managed to do pretty well in the NL East a few times. Oh, but they're soooooo similar.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Take a look at these stats:

Javier Vazquez by Inning....

Starter, Inn. 1-3 3.39

Starter, Inn. 4-6 6.20

Starter, Inn. 7-9 12.38

 

Javier Vazquez by time through the lineup...

1st time thru LnUp 2.03

2nd time thru LnUp 2.81

3rd time thru LnUp 10.15

4th+ time thru LnUp 27.00

 

SI.com Stats on Javy

[ZoomSlowik]

As the senior Javy basher on this site, since December 20, 2005, I would like to point out that he pitched well enough to win last night. Runelvys was just a tad better. This game was decided by the White Sox defense not making plays while KC was making them. I give it to Javier when he deserves it, but not this time.

 

I agree with that entirely, Javy was not the problem last night. Even without his best stuff, he kept us in the game. The problem is the defense didn't do him any favors, and the offense took a nap. You're not going to win a whole lot of ball games when you only score 2 runs.

[Steve9347]

I agree with that entirely, Javy was not the problem last night. Even without his best stuff, he kept us in the game. The problem is the defense didn't do him any favors, and the offense took a nap. You're not going to win a whole lot of ball games when you only score 2 runs.

 

Last night, plainly put, the White Sox rolled over.

[VAfan]

I should have titled this thread "Javier Vazquez mismanagment."

 

Because it is up to the manager to assess the resources he has and play those resources in a manner that gives the team the best chance to win.

 

If Javier Vazquez were pulled after 5 innings in games where the Sox had a lead of 2 or fewer runs, or were within 2 runs of the lead, we would likely be ahead of the Tigers right now, not 6-1/2 games back. That's just plain and simple mismanagement.

 

Sure, Javy "should" be able to go more, but you don't require other players to perform beyond what they are capable of, so why lose games to show that Javy Vazquez is a terrible pitcher after 5 innings?

 

In contrast to Garcia, at least Javy shuts the other team down at the beginning of the ball game. Do you realize that, other than 4 ballgames where he got hit hard in the 5th inning (giving up 17 runs) instead of later, through 23 starts, he gave up only 30 runs over 111 innings in games where he pitched long enough to get the victory. That's an ERA of 2.43. That's pretty damn good. I haven't checked, but that's probably as good as Jose Contreras over the first 5 innings.

 

As I've said before, Ozzie needs to manage the team of players he has, not the players he wants to have, if the Sox are going to succeed this year.

[VAfan]

Last night was another example of a game lost b/c Ozzie does not understand how to manage games started by Javier Vazquez.

 

6th inning, ahead by 3 runs, pitching a shutout, it seems natural to send JV back out for the 6th. The result, 4 runs given up, and the lead, b/w JV, Cotts, and Riske.

 

Where is Brandon McCarthy???????????????? He should start the 6th inning of every game pitched by JV that's within 3 runs.

 

I think we're up to 10 games blown by JV mismanagement at this point. Sure Javier Vazquez should pitch better. But we all know what's going to happen, and we have the perfect player to help us win those games. Just use him.

[BigSqwert]

Where is Brandon McCarthy???????????????? He should start the 6th inning of every game pitched by JV that's within 3 runs.

He has a new role with the ballclub. Ozzie has him stock the kegs in the bullpen sports bar during the game.

[whitesoxfan101]

I honestly would have let him face Morneau. I know he's a 5 and dive, but he had made Morneau look bad twice, and was a far better option that Cotts. Either way though, last night was not his fault, unless he manages the bullpen and decides when to pinch hit.

[VAfan]

McCarthy was actually used properly the next night to bail out Contreras after he gave up 5 runs early. His 1-run performance kept us in the game against Santana, and we actually tied the game 7-7 in the 9th, only to lose in 11 innings.

 

So many guys want McCarthy in the rotation. I don't. The man could have won so many games for us if he was used in LONG RELIEF -- for Vazquez, Buehrle, Garcia, and the Count (and even Garland before he got his act together). I'd rather have 3 long stints out of McCarthy per week than 1 start. By now, our starters would have been given the rest they needed to bounce back.

 

Anyway, I think we always do well after rally games that fall short, like the 8-7 loss to the Twins. We could use a little 9 game winning streak right about now.

 

GO WHITE SOX!!!

[southsider2k5]

McCarthy was actually used properly the next night to bail out Contreras after he gave up 5 runs early. His 1-run performance kept us in the game against Santana, and we actually tied the game 7-7 in the 9th, only to lose in 11 innings.

 

So many guys want McCarthy in the rotation. I don't. The man could have won so many games for us if he was used in LONG RELIEF -- for Vazquez, Buehrle, Garcia, and the Count (and even Garland before he got his act together). I'd rather have 3 long stints out of McCarthy per week than 1 start. By now, our starters would have been given the rest they needed to bounce back.

 

Anyway, I think we always do well after rally games that fall short, like the 8-7 loss to the Twins. We could use a little 9 game winning streak right about now.

 

GO WHITE SOX!!!

 

The irony is if McCarthy had been used to start the 6th inning the day before for Vazquez, and he had pitched two to three innings, he wouldn't have been available for nearly as long as he was for relief of Contreras. So guess what... we still would have had Cotts and Riske trying to protect the team again, just on a different day.

[cgaudin]

"Half-game" Vasquez has been consistently inconsistent, ergo his .500 record. He does however have a lot of value to a team that is DESPERATE for pitching, Baltimore, Texas, St. Louis, Philly, Boston, and Washington to name a few. Vasquez can bring the Sox a lot of "proven" talent in a deal. I'm sure KW is thinking the same thing. But one thing is certain, he has to go.

[Hangar18]

I should have titled this thread "Javier Vazquez mismanagment."

 

Because it is up to the manager to assess the resources he has and play those resources in a manner that gives the team the best chance to win.

 

If Javier Vazquez were pulled after 5 innings in games where the Sox had a lead of 2 or fewer runs, or were within 2 runs of the lead, we would likely be ahead of the Tigers right now, not 6-1/2 games back. That's just plain and simple mismanagement.

 

Sure, Javy "should" be able to go more, but you don't require other players to perform beyond what they are capable of, so why lose games to show that Javy Vazquez is a terrible pitcher after 5 innings?

 

In contrast to Garcia, at least Javy shuts the other team down at the beginning of the ball game. Do you realize that, other than 4 ballgames where he got hit hard in the 5th inning (giving up 17 runs) instead of later, through 23 starts, he gave up only 30 runs over 111 innings in games where he pitched long enough to get the victory. That's an ERA of 2.43. That's pretty damn good. I haven't checked, but that's probably as good as Jose Contreras over the first 5 innings.

 

As I've said before, Ozzie needs to manage the team of players he has, not the players he wants to have, if the Sox are going to succeed this year.

 

This is a good post

[VAfan]

The irony is if McCarthy had been used to start the 6th inning the day before for Vazquez, and he had pitched two to three innings, he wouldn't have been available for nearly as long as he was for relief of Contreras. So guess what... we still would have had Cotts and Riske trying to protect the team again, just on a different day.

 

But we would have WON one of the two games, instead of losing both.

 

"Half-game" Vasquez has been consistently inconsistent, ergo his .500 record. He does however have a lot of value to a team that is DESPERATE for pitching, Baltimore, Texas, St. Louis, Philly, Boston, and Washington to name a few. Vasquez can bring the Sox a lot of "proven" talent in a deal. I'm sure KW is thinking the same thing. But one thing is certain, he has to go.

 

But can you imagine the value he would have if Ozzie had protected the team by yanking Javy after 5 innings and going with McCarthy? He could easily be an 18-game winner already.

 

Most teams don't have a Brandon McCarthy, who could have protected Vazquez's leads for 2-3 innings and given a lead to Jenks. But we do.

 

I'd have to say, this is the issue that has frustrated me the most about Ozzie this year. The mismanagement of his tired starting staff and underulitization of Brandon McCarthy.

 

But you know what?? Right now we're 1/2 game ahead of the Twins for the last spot in the AL playoffs. If we make it to the playoffs, then all is forgiven.

 

GO WHITE SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[southsider2k5]

But we would have WON one of the two games, instead of losing both.

But can you imagine the value he would have if Ozzie had protected the team by yanking Javy after 5 innings and going with McCarthy? He could easily be an 18-game winner already.

We would have huh? I guess we know Brandon would have never coughed up the game, or Cotts or Riske for that matter. What about the frying of the bullpen? Does that factor in anywhere, or do we know that they would be OK, no matter what?

[WCSox]

I agree that Ozzie should've been more aggressive in removing Javy from games in the 5th or 6th earlier in the season, but let's not pretend that B-Mac has been absolutley lights-out in long-relief this season. And let's not pretend that Javy's the only starter who has stunk up the joint in the 5th or 6th inning this year.

[Balta1701]

I agree that Ozzie should've been more aggressive in removing Javy from games in the 5th or 6th earlier in the season, but let's not pretend that B-Mac has been absolutley lights-out in long-relief this season.

Of course, it's probably also worth noting that quite a few people here, including me, have been convinced that one of the reasons BMac was not lights out in long-relief is that BMac has not had regular work. Many of the outings where he struggled were outings where his usage was quite random...the best example being the month of May, where he made 1 spot start on >5 days rest, then had about 10 days off afterwards, then came out and got hit hard. He had an ERA over 6 that month. Outside of that month, he's had an ERA of 3.21, and batters are hitting .207 against him.

[WCSox]

Of course, it's probably also worth noting that quite a few people here, including me, have been convinced that one of the reasons BMac was not lights out in long-relief is that BMac has not had regular work. Many of the outings where he struggled were outings where his usage was quite random...the best example being the month of May, where he made 1 spot start on >5 days rest, then had about 10 days off afterwards, then came out and got hit hard. He had an ERA over 6 that month. Outside of that month, he's had an ERA of 3.21, and batters are hitting .207 against him.

 

Sure, that's likely a factor as well. My point was that, as SS2k mentioned, there were no guarantees that whoever would've replaced Javy in long-relief would've done much better. Not to mention that our bullpen would've been stretched even further.

 

But I agree that B-Mac seems to pitch better when he gets regular work. I'll be happy when he's starting again next season.