8/17 Games

[danman31]

Charlotte won 4-3 in 10. Sweeney 3-5 with a run and SB #7. Fields 1-5, RBI, R, 2 K, SBs #24 and #25. Rogo and Gonzalez with 2 hits each. De Los Santos with a nice start. Box Score

 

Birmingham lost 3-0. '04 first rounder Scott Elbert 1 hit the Barons over 6 innings. Broadway 6 IP, 2 R, 6 K, 4 BB, 4 hits. Box Score

 

Winston-Salem won 7-6 in 10 with a 4 run rally in the bottom of the 9th to send it to extras. Hansen 2-4, 2B, 2 R. Liotta pounded again. Box Score

 

Kanny lost 7-6. Hernandez 2-3 with HR #5, 2 RBI, 2 R, BB, K. Zazueta called up for a start and struggled. Box Score

 

Great Falls lost 8-7. Carter 2-4 with HR #13, 4 RBI, BB. Gilbert 2-3, 2B, RBI, 2 BB, 2 R. Madsen 1-2, 2B, 2 R, 3 BB. Cruz and Reves (HR #7) each with 2 hits. Box Score

 

Bristol lost 10-7. Gartrell 4-5 with HR #4. Inouye (HR #4), Morgan, and Enuco with 2 hits each. Woodson 6 IP, 3 R, 7 K, 3 BB, 7 hits. Box Score

Edited August 18, 2006 by danman31

[CWSGuy406]

Heckuva matchup down there in Birmingham -- Egbert vs Broadway. Egbert struck out nine but walked seven. Broadway wasn't bad, either, but he walked four (along with four hits), and he gave up a homer.

 

Boone Logan also had a pretty good night, two-and-two-thirds innings while striking two. He did give up an unearned run.

 

Sweeney's night at the plate will, again, put his OBP above .350 and his SLG% above .450. Hopefully he can finish the season strong with an OPS around .825.

 

I have to figure out what bandwagon I'll be on when the offseason starts. I think I'm really wanting to see Sweeney playing LF full-time next year. But I'm conflicted, because I'd also like to see talks between Chicago and Boston rekindled (Coco Crisp for Freddy G).

[SoxAce]

I'm starting to like Alexander Woodson more and more as a prospect, I won't get carried away with him, even though Woodson seems like one of the rare guys who can actually pitch well on that Bristol team in starts. (last two that pitched were just destroyed) Maybe a potential candidate for a sleeper next season.

Edited August 18, 2006 by SoxAce

[whitesoxfan101]

Heckuva matchup down there in Birmingham -- Egbert vs Broadway. Egbert struck out nine but walked seven. Broadway wasn't bad, either, but he walked four (along with four hits), and he gave up a homer.

 

Boone Logan also had a pretty good night, two-and-two-thirds innings while striking two. He did give up an unearned run.

 

Sweeney's night at the plate will, again, put his OBP above .350 and his SLG% above .450. Hopefully he can finish the season strong with an OPS around .825.

 

I have to figure out what bandwagon I'll be on when the offseason starts. I think I'm really wanting to see Sweeney playing LF full-time next year. But I'm conflicted, because I'd also like to see talks between Chicago and Boston rekindled (Coco Crisp for Freddy G).

 

Getting Crisp for Freddy wouldn't be all bad, but to be honest I don't know how much better a LF Crisp would be for us than Sweeney would be next year, let alone long term.

[DBAHO]

If you could get say Crisp and Hansen for Garcia, that would be a deal hard to turn down.

 

Otherwise it's more likely Garcia would be dealt to a NL team for prospects I would say.

 

On Sweeney, I think Anderson's 1st half of this season may push the Sox Brass to start him in AAA next season. He should definitely be in the OF for 2008 though.

 

Interesting to see Zazueta up at Kanny as well. Started off great at Bristol, and has tailed off a bit since then. He is somone to keep an eye on though. Kind of reminds me of Daniel Cortes a little, even though I don't really have a great idea on his stuff.

[AssHatSoxFan]

a few thoughts after seeing charlotte last night

-de los santos looked pretty good out there

-fields two SBs were back to back in the 8th when nitkowski was pitching and there wasnt even a throw which annoyed the indy fans

-fields made a terrible fielding play in the 9th to allow an unearned run to score

-boone logan is a golden god

[kwolf68]

If you could get say Crisp and Hansen for Garcia, that would be a deal hard to turn down.

 

Otherwise it's more likely Garcia would be dealt to a NL team for prospects I would say.

 

On Sweeney, I think Anderson's 1st half of this season may push the Sox Brass to start him in AAA next season. He should definitely be in the OF for 2008 though.

 

Interesting to see Zazueta up at Kanny as well. Started off great at Bristol, and has tailed off a bit since then. He is somone to keep an eye on though. Kind of reminds me of Daniel Cortes a little, even though I don't really have a great idea on his stuff.

 

 

If the BoSox will give us Crisp and Hansen for Freddy, KW will break his leg getting to the phone...that is a deal YOU MUST MAKE, if offered.

 

Sweeney is developing, but it will be interesting to see where the Sox go with Fields. If the idea is to tie up Crede for long-term and the Sox are definately pushing Fields for left field one day, then Sweeney would have to wait on RF (Dye)....Sweeney probably has right-field talent, but Dye is still a great player and isn't using a walker. Sweeney has played some CF in Charlotte, but I believe Anderson is the guy there....we traded Young away and were very patient with BA this year, to the point where it is slowly paying off.

 

I don't believe both Fields and Sweeney will ever both be starters in Chicago UNLESS the Sox don't think or will lock up Crede long term. My belief is Crede (as long as we can trust his back) is the most important player on this team not named Konerko. He plays brilliant defense, has become a great hitter, and is "a clutch" guy who you can always count on. I DONT WANT him traded. So that means Fields only other option is left or right.

 

Other teams (Houston, San Diego) wanted Fields and they wanted him for 3rd base. If we are going to make the investment in him and ask him to learn another position it will be rewarded with an opportunity in Chicago. Thing about Fields is...he can do it, he can become an excellent outfielder. The kid has amazing work ethic and has shown the propensity to improve on his weaknesses. I see a kid in Fields that will be a consistent .280, 30 homer, 20 stolen base guy who brings the character you need to win it all.

 

Sweeney will hit for the higher average, but won't hit as many homers or steals...yet his defense will likely be better.

 

Right now I'd like to see our minor league system re-tool with middle fielders and pitchers. I am a big fan and am very high on Chris Getz, but he isn't there yet...but Lopez and Valido are starting to worry me and we have nothing left at CF...I know we hit C hard in this past draft, so we'll see how that develops.

[RockRaines]

If the BoSox will give us Crisp and Hansen for Freddy, KW will break his leg getting to the phone...that is a deal YOU MUST MAKE, if offered.

 

Sweeney is developing, but it will be interesting to see where the Sox go with Fields. If the idea is to tie up Crede for long-term and the Sox are definately pushing Fields for left field one day, then Sweeney would have to wait on RF (Dye)....Sweeney probably has right-field talent, but Dye is still a great player and isn't using a walker. Sweeney has played some CF in Charlotte, but I believe Anderson is the guy there....we traded Young away and were very patient with BA this year, to the point where it is slowly paying off.

 

I don't believe both Fields and Sweeney will ever both be starters in Chicago UNLESS the Sox don't think or will lock up Crede long term. My belief is Crede (as long as we can trust his back) is the most important player on this team not named Konerko. He plays brilliant defense, has become a great hitter, and is "a clutch" guy who you can always count on. I DONT WANT him traded. So that means Fields only other option is left or right.

 

Other teams (Houston, San Diego) wanted Fields and they wanted him for 3rd base. If we are going to make the investment in him and ask him to learn another position it will be rewarded with an opportunity in Chicago. Thing about Fields is...he can do it, he can become an excellent outfielder. The kid has amazing work ethic and has shown the propensity to improve on his weaknesses. I see a kid in Fields that will be a consistent .280, 30 homer, 20 stolen base guy who brings the character you need to win it all.

 

Sweeney will hit for the higher average, but won't hit as many homers or steals...yet his defense will likely be better.

 

Right now I'd like to see our minor league system re-tool with middle fielders and pitchers. I am a big fan and am very high on Chris Getz, but he isn't there yet...but Lopez and Valido are starting to worry me and we have nothing left at CF...I know we hit C hard in this past draft, so we'll see how that develops.

One of the things that you can look at for our future is that if we put Sweeney, Anderson and Fields in the OF at the same time, we have just changed the face of this team. We have put extremely athletic, fast guys in the OF, with GOOD arms. The team must adapat then as well. Maybe we come a little more of a speed team, which could fit in well with our pitching philosophy. If we still have some power coming from Fields, Kong , Crede, and whoever is our DH, we have plenty of RBI guys and speed guys to make the team well balanced. It would be an exciting transition to see IMO.

[kwolf68]

One of the things that you can look at for our future is that if we put Sweeney, Anderson and Fields in the OF at the same time, we have just changed the face of this team. We have put extremely athletic, fast guys in the OF, with GOOD arms. The team must adapat then as well. Maybe we come a little more of a speed team, which could fit in well with our pitching philosophy. If we still have some power coming from Fields, Kong , Crede, and whoever is our DH, we have plenty of RBI guys and speed guys to make the team well balanced. It would be an exciting transition to see IMO.

 

 

I would only be in favor of Sweeney/Fields/Anderson if we had a legit leadoff hitter coming from somewhere else (Short-stop).

 

Sweeney is likely a 3-hitter, Fields a 5 or 6, and Anderson will probably always hit toward the end of the order.

 

But I can see a situation where Crede becomes our third hitter backed by PK and DH (RF-Dye)....Still, I would want a legitimate rabbit leading off, maybe it'd be SS with Iguchi/Getz hitting 2nd.

 

 

Thing is, I don't believe we have much of a minor league at this point...Only Sweeney/Fields/Getz look like major league position players at this point and even they have questions (Sweeney limited power for a corner OF? Fields Ks a lot? Getz average is down a bit right now)...We don't have our version of Howie Kendrick in other words.

[RockRaines]

I would only be in favor of Sweeney/Fields/Anderson if we had a legit leadoff hitter coming from somewhere else (Short-stop).

 

Sweeney is likely a 3-hitter, Fields a 5 or 6, and Anderson will probably always hit toward the end of the order.

 

But I can see a situation where Crede becomes our third hitter backed by PK and DH (RF-Dye)....Still, I would want a legitimate rabbit leading off, maybe it'd be SS with Iguchi/Getz hitting 2nd.

Thing is, I don't believe we have much of a minor league at this point...Only Sweeney/Fields/Getz look like major league position players at this point and even they have questions (Sweeney limited power for a corner OF? Fields Ks a lot? Getz average is down a bit right now)...We don't have our version of Howie Kendrick in other words.

I actually like sweeney at #2 for some reason. Fields looks like a #5 and BA may bat 6 7 or 8 for the rest of his career. At that point you gotta think Gooch may be gone, as well as Uribe. So its possible we get that piece in FA.

[CWSGuy406]

But I can see a situation where Crede becomes our third hitter backed by PK and DH (RF-Dye)....Still, I would want a legitimate rabbit leading off, maybe it'd be SS with Iguchi/Getz hitting 2nd.

Thing is, I don't believe we have much of a minor league at this point...Only Sweeney/Fields/Getz look like major league position players at this point and even they have questions (Sweeney limited power for a corner OF? Fields Ks a lot? Getz average is down a bit right now)...We don't have our version of Howie Kendrick in other words.

 

I hate to burst your bubble, but Getz has a LONG way to go, and it's really hard to put him in the same sentence as guys like Sweeney and Fields. He's putting up a .254/.320/.323 line at Birmingham; I'd be very surprised to see if the FutureSox guys even put him in the Top 15, much less the Top 20, of their midseason rankings.

 

If you could get say Crisp and Hansen for Garcia, that would be a deal hard to turn down.

 

Not a chance in hell that Epstein includes Hansen. Garcie-for-Crisp is questionable as is; I just brought it up because of the rumored Buehrle-for-Crisp deal at the deadline.

[GoodAsGould]

How so? A struggling SP but is battle tested and has proven himself in the playoffs >>> a corner outfielder w/ no pop and has only had 1-2 seasons of success and has failed in the spotlight... even w/ the difference in contracts Garcia >> Crisp.

[CWSGuy406]

How so? A struggling SP but is battle tested and has proven himself in the playoffs >>> a corner outfielder w/ no pop and has only had 1-2 seasons of success and has failed in the spotlight... even w/ the difference in contracts Garcia >> Crisp.

 

a.) This said pitcher happens to have a $10 million dollar contract for next year despite the fact that he's been a slightly below average pitcher this year, and has also lost 2-3 MPH off of his fastball. He also just turned 30.

 

b.) I believe that it took a little longer than just his DL trip for Coco Crisp to recover from his injury. He started off hot out of the gates, hitting .333, but then got injured. He was mediocre-to-bad in June and July, but in August, he's hitting more along the lines of what he did in Cleveland -- .308/.357/.462 is his August line. Considering he's only 26 years old, I think he's a good bet to be a similar or even better player than what he did in his last year in Cleveland -- .300/.345/.465, with 15-20 SBs per year.

 

c.) He's playing out of position this year. Last year with Cleveland, he was arguably the best defensive LFer in terms of getting to balls. The Sox have room to improve their team defense, and LF is definitely a spot where it can get better.

 

d.) Crisp is locked up through his prime years at a reasonable price (five million).

 

Did I mention that we have Brandon McCarthy ready to take the SP spot? Garcia is more important to them than he is to us, with Lester and Beckett the only sure locks to be in their rotation next season.

 

It's a trade that seems to make sense for both teams, although I could certainly see Kenny going in a different direction (Sweeney, Fields, trade for Crawford).

[GoodAsGould]

Im not saying Id really be against the trade.. Im saying Freddy Garcia is worth Crisp and more so. While maybe Hansen is a bit much id still expect another piece in return.

[CWSGuy406]

Im not saying Id really be against the trade.. Im saying Freddy Garcia is worth Crisp and more so. While maybe Hansen is a bit much id still expect another piece in return.

 

And you still haven't said why Garcia is worth more than Crisp, other than that he's a "big game" (hah) and "battle tested" pitcher.

[Gene Honda Civic]

And you still haven't said why Garcia is worth more than Crisp, other than that he's a "big game" (hah) and "battle tested" pitcher.

Ah when this is the best thing you can say about a pitcher....

 

Garcia's well on his way to turning into Russ Ortiz.

[DBAHO]

My point on the Crisp and Hansen for Garcia deal is this.

 

I would personally rather trade Garcia for prospects to an NL Team for say Cesar Carillo and someone else rather than trade him straight up for Crisp.

 

I think you can find a FA like Dellucci who is really very similar to Crisp in terms of numbers, both being LHH's etc.

 

BUT, if Boston were to include Hansen (and they would have in the Andruw Jones deal, plus his ERA is up to 5.93 now), I would do that deal in a second.

 

I don't know how Epstein feels about Hansen right now, they might have soured on him a little after what he's done this season.

 

Who knows how Garcia's going to pitch next season. The WBC didn't do him any favors at all you have to remember, and it's affected a lot of pitchers in a negative way.

[GoodAsGould]

And you still haven't said why Garcia is worth more than Crisp, other than that he's a "big game" (hah) and "battle tested" pitcher.

 

Why? Because Garcia always has good seasons and than s*** seasons...Right now he is having his s*** season so keeping to his pattern plus the fact it will be a contract year.. Im pretty sure next season we will see the missing 2-3 mph on Freddy's fastball.

[CWSGuy406]

Why? Because Garcia always has good seasons and than s*** seasons...Right now he is having his s*** season so keeping to his pattern plus the fact it will be a contract year.. Im pretty sure next season we will see the missing 2-3 mph on Freddy's fastball.

 

WTF are you talking about? Garcia's two "bad seasons" (which were slightly below league average, not bad) were in 2002-'03. And no, it's not Garcia pitching to a pattern; it's a guy who now has below average stuff getting hit hard.

 

I actually agree with you that he might gain an MPH or two on his fastball just because he'll want one more big contract. But I don't want to have to rely on that. And if he were, in fact, to come out next year and be throwing 91-93 MPH, that'd be all the more reason to trade him. The guy is getting paid a lof of money right now; if the reason he's lost velocity on his fastball was because he came to Arizona out of shape, then that's embarrassing, quite frankly.

 

And again -- we have a guy in Brandon McCarthy who can do what Garcia does for about 1/30th of the price next year.

[GoodAsGould]

Why are you trying to argue with me whether we should trade him or not ive already said im for it.. but not just for a corner OF with little pop.

[CWSGuy406]

Why are you trying to argue with me whether we should trade him or not ive already said im for it.. but not just for a corner OF with little pop.

 

Because I think you're overrating Garcia and underrating Crisp. I wouldn't call Crisp a guy with "little pop"; although, if Coco Crisp is truely the player that his 2006 stats show he is (which I don't believe, because of the early season injury -- but I can understand if you believe that), then he certainly fits that bill.

 

 

I see Crisp as a .300/.345/.450 player for the next couple years. I see an above average defender in LF, and a guy who we could expect Ozzie to use in the leadoff spot because of his speed (15-20 SB a year).

 

Do you not see Crisp as that type of player? Or do you just think we should get something more/something different (prospects, bullpen help, a new SS, whatever it is) for Freddy?

[GoodAsGould]

I can see Crisp hitting upper .290's-.300 range with an OBP in the .340 range. But his SB percentage is pretty much crap... career wise 70 SB with 33 CS which I dont care much much for and he will give you some HR's but nothing special. I wouldnt be against him leading off for us but Id be against a trade of Freddy Garcia straight up for Coco Crisp.

[CWSGuy406]

I can see Crisp hitting upper .290's-.300 range with an OBP in the .340 range. But his SB percentage is pretty much crap... career wise 70 SB with 33 CS which I dont care much much for and he will give you some HR's but nothing special. I wouldnt be against him leading off for us but Id be against a trade of Freddy Garcia straight up for Coco Crisp.

 

That's fair enough.

 

Honestly, I don't know if trading for Crisp would even make sense, seeing that Dye should be around here for at least the next couple years (assuming we resign him), and Sweeney/Fields already in the minors (although I'd sell high on Fields).

 

I liked Crisp a LOT when he played with Cleveland, and although a .300/.345/.450 line isn't great (especially for a corner OFer), in this lineup, I think it'd be enough.

[DBAHO]

Think its too early for a thread just about the off-season? I really want to start hearing peoples ideas, becasue I know I have been thinking about it ALOT.

 

(In know way do I think this season is over, I just am always looking ahead.)

I think if you look around there have been quite a lot of discussions about the off-season, just not a thread basically on it.

 

But IMHO, it's never too early to discuss ways you can improve your ballclub.