A 2nd Chance for Thomas Bashers

[Bmr31]

Like I said there is a portion/additional post(s) missing....nice try though, that's what you get for not agreeing to the bet prior to expireddeadlines...which again you conveniently leave out.  Where are they?

 

Next.

pathetic. you really disappoint me dima. i thought you had more character than this.

I do...why do you insist on me owing you money where I do NOT? At first I tohught you were joking with me this time too, but you are serious, aren't you?

Reminding me of my ex too much and really scaring me. Can anyone say Bi-polar?

[BrandoFan]

Like I said there is a portion/additional post(s) missing....nice try though, that's what you get for not agreeing to the bet prior to expireddeadlines...which again you conveniently leave out.  Where are they?

 

Next.

pathetic. you really disappoint me dima. i thought you had more character than this.

I do...why do you insist on me owing you money where I do NOT? At first I tohught you were joking with me this time too, but you are serious, aren't you?

Reminding me of my ex too much and really scaring me. Can anyone say Bi-polar?

Ok I am Voodoo, IDseer, Big_Hurt391 and whoever else you want me to be...Let's move on, K?

 

I bet you forced the "confession" out of FWC the same way, didn't you?

[Bmr31]

Like I said there is a portion/additional post(s) missing....nice try though, that's what you get for not agreeing to the bet prior to expireddeadlines...which again you conveniently leave out.  Where are they?

 

Next.

pathetic. you really disappoint me dima. i thought you had more character than this.

I do...why do you insist on me owing you money where I do NOT? At first I tohught you were joking with me this time too, but you are serious, aren't you?

Reminding me of my ex too much and really scaring me. Can anyone say Bi-polar?

Ok I am Voodoo, IDseer, Big_Hurt391 and whoever else you want me to be...Let's move on, K?

K I wonder who could give me head in this town? I am at my parents..........

[Guest Ncorgbl]

You're saying Buehrle sucks and Thomas is doing very well, yet you only have to look back to last year at about this time to see Mark with a 9-5 record and a good ERA and Thomas hitting .230-.240 with bad power numbers(for Frank).

 

Pot, meet kettle.  It'd be like a Thomas fan(such as yourself) saying a Konerko fan has no talking rights.

No, that's not a fair comparison. Now if you took Buehrle or Konerko, had them have surgery last season and come back this, then it would be a fair comparison to Thomas' 2002 season.

[idseer]

Who cares what I OFFERED...what part of "it was never finalized" is not clear to you?  I offered IDseer numerous occasions to complete the bet, with numerous deadlines....he missed them all by trying to f*** with me thinking I wasn't serious....and now he want to get paid for a no-bet that took place almost 2 years ago?  I don't.think.so. I'ts not about 200 either, who cares.

 

This was the only (out of 4 or 5) post he actually saved, but even so the crucial part was "confirm very soon" which he didn't, though I am not so sure HE knows it.

 

Takes more than silly post manipulations and omissions to besmearch my moniker, ID...lol

of course there's no way to prove it was 'finalized'. it doesn't matter. you know it was and i know it was. why wouldn't i finalize it? who wouldn't? it was a stupid bet on your part (mostly the 20 stolen bases part because he'd never stolen 20 in his life) and i jumped at it.

and you're right about there being 4 or 5 posts. the initial ones leading up to the last one which was the actual bet. why should i save the others?

 

anyway, let's drop it. it's useless to carry on, obviously.

 

 

i will say this. your spelling and grammer has improved greatly since you were dima. that's why i was never sure it was you. the mariah comment seemed to indicate it was but then you could have simply seen our conversations about her.

have you been taking a spelling course? or on medication? (you were always in such a hurry in your typing)

[Guest Ncorgbl]

like most people here, i base my opinions on what i read or hear (tv).  and i have read on several occasions that FT is not so much interested in the teams success, but his own.  i've seen for myself the times he's popped up on an 0-3 count because he feels HE wants to 'be the man'.  your excuse for him not sliding is just that ... an excuse.  he wasn't protecting an injured wrist. his wrist was healed! otherwise he's not out there.  the previous wrist injury IS an excuse for not hitting ... but just a bulls*** reason for not sliding when a game is on the line.

 

i also prefaced my comments concerning his intelligence saying from all i've seen and read of him.  i have no first hand knowledge of his intelligence away from the ballgame.  BUT! ... in that arena he has been STUPID!

 

and he ran to jr for help? that's why he threatened to not show?  that's the advice his good buddy jr gave him? excuse my guffaw!

 

as you yourself said, you don't understand fans like me because you don't want to.  who has the closed mind here?

 

"If the franchise had been sold to me, I'd move it in a moment's notice."

be careful what you wish for.

If you do base your opinions by being led by the media, then your take is understandable. You have people here who know some of the principles first hand, and the stories behind what the media puts out to get higher ratings, first hand. Guffaw all you wish, believing the media is just plain naive.

What wrist? Thomas didn't slide last season on two occassions because of a surgically repaired triceps muscle, not a wrist, and anyone who'd ask a player to risk reinjury for a meaningless game is absurd. Surgeries heal enough to play, but take much longer to be as strong as new.

I know Frank Thomas, he is a good friend. He is a very intelligent man. If you watched and listened to his interview last year about the drug testing, you'd have seen that. Thomas is a very trusting person, and gets caught off guard when someone tries to set him up for a 'big' story. He's an athlete, but didn't know the history of racial prejudice in the game and when asked about Jackie Robinson, didn't know. Frank never experienced racial issues until he was an adult, and up in the Majors, and still then only a bit. His experiences are almost ideal, and at least as they should be. The reporter then lambasted him. The ARod thing was the same, the reporter asking a loaded question, Thomas trusting, saying the truth, and getting creamed for it. Did anyone then, or do you now think ARod was worth $16 million more than Thomas, or anyone else in 2000? That was the issue, not that Frank wanted more money, he was happy with his money.

Last summer, at the trade deadline, Ken Williams tried to trade Thomas. He had a deal made, ready to go, with Boston. When several of us heard about it the screaming from the offices was heard in the stands. Some who post here heard the yelling. JR was not aware of the trade, but upon having his friends, supporters and stockholders screaming, he stopped the deal. Williams was PO'd. He and I have not had a civil word since. He vowed he'd get rid of Frank, and Thomas was crushed. JR assurred him he would stay here. I made it perfectly clear what would do if Thomas was allowed to leave the Sox. There is a 'right of first refusal' to Einhorn and Reinsdorf in all outstanding stock agreed to by all the stockholders from the Veeck ownership. It was the only way the sale would go through as they wanted all the shares, no other partners, and we liked 'owning' our favourite team. I made no secret that the first person I'd call was Steinbrenner and sell to him. Both he and I could easily spend the legal fees to irritate someone, George to bust JR's balls, and me to make my point. High level games are fun.

When Thomas' agent died in the plane crash, he did not hire a new one. For all those years, including through the ARod thing and the surgery up until last fall, Frank's 'agent', confidant,close friend and advisor was and still is Jerry Reinsdorf. When have you ever in your life heard of a player who had his owner as an advisor/agent? Those of us who know both men personally understand it perfectly. But it's not something they necessarily want blabbed to the media. Nonetheless, Thomas, who had gotten to camp early in 2000, "slimmed down and with his glove, ready to play" as Manuel said, got bushwacked by the reporter. Thomas didn't know what to do, how to control the mushroom cloud of contoversey, and fled camp, still before the reporting date, and guess where he went? Straight to Reinsdorf. The 'spin' decided in JR's office was to tell the media that Thomas was not going to get any revisions in his contract, and they ran with that. Frank was told, and I witnessed this first hand, I was there and heard it with my own ears, that the 'clause' would be 'taken care of'. Both Frank and I understood that to mean it would be taken out. Up to that point only 4 total people had even seen Thomas' contract, and one of them was dead. Reinsdorf, Thomas' agent, Thomas, but only for his signature, and myself. The contract was kept in JR's office, away from all the rest of the team's contracts. Thomas reported to camp on time, and was advised not to talk to the media.

Last fall, when Einhorn needed transplant surgery, JR's only thought was of Eddie. That's when Williams went into JR's office, technically OK, but morally not, and took the contract and invoked the clause. Thomas was shocked, I was pissed. We were lied to. The 'spin' on that was to call it something other than the 'diminished skills', so 'RPR' was put out, and, technically, Thomas and I were not lied to. It is a business thing, some understand, but most call it playing games. It is, but that's another story. Anyway, Einhorn goes through surgery, is looking good, JR knows he will take care of his friend, and try not to upset his G.M., that's Jerry, and keep me out of his hair, because I'm not always so nice. When KW went to the Dominican to scout, JR got together with Thomas' new agent, a friend of JR's and recommended to Frank by JR, and they made certain that KW's flight back was in the air before they did the new deal. When Williams landed, he got a call from his assisitant, was livid, and called into JR's office. Thomas was on one line, speaker phone, and KW on the other, with JR, Frank's agent and me in the room. Williams, screaming, said "I will trade his ass by the break". JR looked to me to shut my mouth, and no one else said a word. That's where that stands now, though Williams is G.M. in name only. He crossed Einhorn, and that deal is done, I believe HSC has told you all about that. Frank got an offer of more money than his old contract from Danny Evans to play for the Dodgers, but Frank decided to stay here, be closer to his kids, and with the asurrance from JR he'd be taken care of. He was.

That's the gist of the story, there's always more, but the important info is there to help understand that much goes on behind the scenes the fans and media do not know. When it harms my friends, I talk about it. I think both Thomas and JR are fine people, and real Sox fans would love them both if they knew all the truth.

[Steff]

Not sure if this is what Ncorgbl was talking about, but I remember LA all but having a deal wrapped up for Frank during the past offseason when the White Sox invoked the "Diminished Skills Clause." JR stepped in at the last minute and Frank was able to "rework" his current contract and stay with the Sox.

 

The "Diminished Skills Clause"..... yet another reason why Sox fans should be cheering Frank on. Give us something else we can shake in the face and jam up the ass of JR 

While some of you guys and gals may have inside sources, I'm out here in Cali and I know people in Chicago were always talking about Thomas going to the Dodgers, but out here no one even mentioned it as much of a possibility.

 

Dodgers were looking at Cliff Floyd.

No offense to anyone and their information, but I have the same story to tell regarding Frank and the Dodgers. He was never going there.

[Steff]

Thomas turned down a bigger than his original contract of $10 million per year from the L.A. Dodgers and Dan Evans to stay in Chicago, mostly because of his kids.

I don't speak to Megan, but I'm sure someone here can confirm that Frank sees his kids about as much as I see my neice who lives in Florida.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Thomas turned down a bigger than his original contract of $10 million per year from the L.A. Dodgers and Dan Evans to stay in Chicago, mostly because of his kids.

I don't speak to Megan, but I'm sure someone here can confirm that Frank sees his kids about as much as I see my neice who lives in Florida.

Didn't his ex say in her 'tell all' interview last season that Frank is a very good father, loves his kids very much and sees them all the time?

[Steff]

Thomas turned down a bigger than his original contract of $10 million per year from the L.A. Dodgers and Dan Evans to stay in Chicago, mostly because of his kids.

I don't speak to Megan, but I'm sure someone here can confirm that Frank sees his kids about as much as I see my neice who lives in Florida.

Didn't his ex say in her 'tell all' interview last season that Frank is a very good father, loves his kids very much and sees them all the time?

She said a lot of things. Doesn't make them true (not that he's not a good dad, but that he sees them all the time).

 

For example, she failed to mention that she takes the kids to Georgia during the summer to stay with her parents for weeks at a time, and seemingly out of spite, does it when the Sox are in town. I have yet to see her or the kids at one game yet this year where in the past I have seen them at least once a week. Crystal called her to see if she wanted to meet when she was here closing on the sale of the house and she was in Georgia. I don't think Frank sees them much at all and from what I've seen, it's been this way for the past 2 years.

[Soxplosion]

Who cares what I OFFERED...what part of "it was never finalized" is not clear to you?  I offered IDseer numerous occasions to complete the bet, with numerous deadlines....he missed them all by trying to f*** with me thinking I wasn't serious....and now he want to get paid for a no-bet that took place almost 2 years ago?  I don't.think.so. I'ts not about 200 either, who cares.

 

This was the only (out of 4 or 5) post he actually saved, but even so the crucial part was "confirm very soon" which he didn't, though I am not so sure HE knows it.

 

Takes more than silly post manipulations and omissions to besmearch my moniker, ID...lol

Oh. But still, it was pretty dumb to even offer that...

[idseer]

If you do base your opinions by being led by the media, then your take is understandable. You have people here who know some of the principles first hand, and the stories behind what the media puts out to get higher ratings, first hand. Guffaw all you wish, believing the media is just plain naive.

What wrist? Thomas didn't slide last season on two occassions because of a surgically repaired triceps muscle, not a wrist, and anyone who'd ask a player to risk reinjury for a meaningless game is absurd. Surgeries heal enough to play, but take much longer to be as strong as new.

I know Frank Thomas, he is a good friend. He is a very intelligent man. If you watched and listened to his interview last year about the drug testing, you'd have seen that. Thomas is a very trusting person, and gets caught off guard when someone tries to set him up for a 'big' story. He's an athlete, but didn't know the history of racial prejudice in the game and when asked about Jackie Robinson, didn't know. Frank never experienced racial issues until he was an adult, and up in the Majors, and still then only a bit. His experiences are almost ideal, and at least as they should be. The reporter then lambasted him. The ARod thing was the same, the reporter asking a loaded question, Thomas trusting, saying the truth, and getting creamed for it. Did anyone then, or do you now think ARod was worth $16 million more than Thomas, or anyone else in 2000? That was the issue, not that Frank wanted more money, he was happy with his money.

Last summer, at the trade deadline, Ken Williams tried to trade Thomas. He had a deal made, ready to go, with Boston. When several of us heard about it the screaming from the offices was heard in the stands. Some who post here heard the yelling. JR was not aware of the trade, but upon having his friends, supporters and stockholders screaming, he stopped the deal. Williams was PO'd. He and I have not had a civil word since. He vowed he'd get rid of Frank, and Thomas was crushed. JR assurred him he would stay here. I made it perfectly clear what  would do if Thomas was allowed to leave the Sox. There is a 'right of first refusal' to Einhorn and Reinsdorf in all outstanding stock agreed to by all the stockholders from the Veeck ownership. It was the only way the sale would go through as they wanted all the shares, no other partners, and we liked 'owning' our favourite team. I made no secret that the first person I'd call was Steinbrenner and sell to him. Both he and I could easily spend the legal fees to irritate someone, George to bust JR's balls, and me to make my point. High level games are fun. 

When Thomas' agent died in the plane crash, he did not hire a new one. For all those years, including through the ARod thing and the surgery up until last fall, Frank's 'agent', confidant,close friend and advisor was and still is Jerry Reinsdorf. When have you ever in your life heard of a player who had his owner as an advisor/agent? Those of us who know both men personally understand it perfectly. But it's not something they necessarily want blabbed to the media. Nonetheless, Thomas, who had gotten to camp early in 2000, "slimmed down and with his glove, ready to play" as Manuel said, got bushwacked by the reporter. Thomas didn't know what to do, how to control the mushroom cloud of contoversey, and fled camp, still before the reporting date, and guess where he went? Straight to Reinsdorf. The 'spin' decided in JR's office was to tell the media that Thomas was not going to get any revisions in his contract, and they ran with that. Frank was told, and I witnessed this first hand, I was there and heard it with my own ears, that the 'clause' would be 'taken care of'. Both Frank and I understood that to mean it would be taken out. Up to that point only 4 total people had even seen Thomas' contract, and one of them was dead. Reinsdorf, Thomas' agent, Thomas, but only for his signature, and myself. The contract was kept in JR's office, away from all the rest of the team's contracts. Thomas reported to camp on time, and was advised not to talk to the media.

Last fall, when Einhorn needed transplant surgery, JR's only thought was of Eddie. That's when Williams went into JR's office, technically OK, but morally not, and took the contract and invoked the clause. Thomas was shocked, I was pissed. We were lied to. The 'spin' on that was to call it something other than the 'diminished skills', so 'RPR' was put out, and, technically, Thomas and I were not lied to. It is a business thing, some understand, but most call it playing games. It is, but that's another story. Anyway, Einhorn goes through surgery, is looking good, JR knows he will take care of his friend, and try not to upset his G.M., that's Jerry, and keep me out of his hair, because I'm not always so nice. When KW went to the Dominican to scout, JR got together with Thomas' new agent, a friend of JR's and recommended to Frank by JR, and they made certain that KW's flight back was in the air before they did the new deal. When Williams landed, he got a call from his assisitant, was livid, and called into JR's office. Thomas was on one line, speaker phone, and KW on the other, with JR, Frank's agent and me in the room. Williams, screaming, said "I will trade his ass by the break". JR looked to me to shut my mouth, and no one else said a word. That's where that stands now, though Williams is G.M. in name only. He crossed Einhorn, and that deal is done, I believe HSC has told you all about that. Frank got an offer of more money than his old contract from Danny Evans to play for the Dodgers, but Frank decided to stay here, be closer to his kids, and with the asurrance from JR he'd be taken care of. He was.

That's the gist of the story, there's always more, but the important info is there to help understand that much goes on behind the scenes the fans and media do not know. When it harms my friends, I talk about it. I think both Thomas and JR are fine people, and real Sox fans would love them both if they knew all the truth.

regards the injury ... i knew it was triceps. just had a little brain fart there. i don't think that changes the gist of what i said tho.

 

as to the trest of your post ... i appreciate you taking the time to explain what you did. you understand that MOST of us have nothing else to go by other than the media. like it or not we all make opinions on available knowledge in all aspects of life. that's just the way it is. i will say that i wouldn't bet much on knowledge gained that way. nevertheless at a sox gab site such as this you discuss from these biases. otherwise no one talks except those like yourself who are 'inside'. i would add that even those 'in the know' don't always have the straight story ... just what they happen to be privy to. if you say thomas is a great guy then i cannot argue with you. but then maybe you're both jerks. i don't know you either. (the last was said with a smile and i am not suggesting it's true ... but you get my point).

i still think there's something wrong with thomas' arrangement with jr (who i dispise as an owner). at the least it would seem to be a conflict of interest, and very naive of thomas to have. for a supposed intelligent person this doesn't seem like good business.

 

perhaps you can explain why there are so many people who feel as i do! is FT just an unlucky soul that we all misunderstand? are all stars of his magnitude put through this wringer?

i don't doubt your comments about KW are true but i still feel thomas has himself to blame for his plight. at least much of it.

 

reaching back to an earlier comment i made, i did wanted to trade frank after 2000. but not because i don't like the guy. i felt he'd reached his absolute pinnacle in that season and the time was best to move him. we desperately needed pitching and i believe we could have scooped up a lot for him. he wasn't going anywhere but downhill after that going into his mid thirties. don't give me bonds or other examples of guys who got better after that. those are the big exceptions and thomas being a big man was very unlikely to follow suit. the percentages said move him then. keep in mind i do not have considerations for the actual persons. i am only concerned, in this context, with what's best for the team's future.

 

hey ... maybe i'd feel different if i knew the man, i don't know.

[Texsox]

Cumulative Postseason Hitting Stats: Next Stats >>

SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

1993 Chicago White Sox 6 17 2 6 0 0 1 3 9 10 5 0 0 .593 .529 .353

2000 Chicago White Sox 3 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 .308 .000 .000

Career Totals 9 26 2 6 0 0 1 3 9 14 5 0 0 .500 .346 .231

 

6 for 26 lifetime in the post season

"Only" DH most of his career

Less than teflon PR

 

Not a first ballot HoF but make room.

[southsider2k5]

like most people here, i base my opinions on what i read or hear (tv).  and i have read on several occasions that FT is not so much interested in the teams success, but his own.  i've seen for myself the times he's popped up on an 0-3 count because he feels HE wants to 'be the man'.  your excuse for him not sliding is just that ... an excuse.  he wasn't protecting an injured wrist. his wrist was healed! otherwise he's not out there.  the previous wrist injury IS an excuse for not hitting ... but just a bulls*** reason for not sliding when a game is on the line.

 

i also prefaced my comments concerning his intelligence saying from all i've seen and read of him.  i have no first hand knowledge of his intelligence away from the ballgame.  BUT! ... in that arena he has been STUPID!

 

and he ran to jr for help?   that's why he threatened to not show?  that's the advice his good buddy jr gave him?   excuse my guffaw!

 

as you yourself said, you don't understand fans like me because you don't want to.  who has the closed mind here?

 

"If the franchise had been sold to me, I'd move it in a moment's notice."

be careful what you wish for.

If you do base your opinions by being led by the media, then your take is understandable. You have people here who know some of the principles first hand, and the stories behind what the media puts out to get higher ratings, first hand. Guffaw all you wish, believing the media is just plain naive.

What wrist? Thomas didn't slide last season on two occassions because of a surgically repaired triceps muscle, not a wrist, and anyone who'd ask a player to risk reinjury for a meaningless game is absurd. Surgeries heal enough to play, but take much longer to be as strong as new.

I know Frank Thomas, he is a good friend. He is a very intelligent man. If you watched and listened to his interview last year about the drug testing, you'd have seen that. Thomas is a very trusting person, and gets caught off guard when someone tries to set him up for a 'big' story. He's an athlete, but didn't know the history of racial prejudice in the game and when asked about Jackie Robinson, didn't know. Frank never experienced racial issues until he was an adult, and up in the Majors, and still then only a bit. His experiences are almost ideal, and at least as they should be. The reporter then lambasted him. The ARod thing was the same, the reporter asking a loaded question, Thomas trusting, saying the truth, and getting creamed for it. Did anyone then, or do you now think ARod was worth $16 million more than Thomas, or anyone else in 2000? That was the issue, not that Frank wanted more money, he was happy with his money.

Last summer, at the trade deadline, Ken Williams tried to trade Thomas. He had a deal made, ready to go, with Boston. When several of us heard about it the screaming from the offices was heard in the stands. Some who post here heard the yelling. JR was not aware of the trade, but upon having his friends, supporters and stockholders screaming, he stopped the deal. Williams was PO'd. He and I have not had a civil word since. He vowed he'd get rid of Frank, and Thomas was crushed. JR assurred him he would stay here. I made it perfectly clear what would do if Thomas was allowed to leave the Sox. There is a 'right of first refusal' to Einhorn and Reinsdorf in all outstanding stock agreed to by all the stockholders from the Veeck ownership. It was the only way the sale would go through as they wanted all the shares, no other partners, and we liked 'owning' our favourite team. I made no secret that the first person I'd call was Steinbrenner and sell to him. Both he and I could easily spend the legal fees to irritate someone, George to bust JR's balls, and me to make my point. High level games are fun.

When Thomas' agent died in the plane crash, he did not hire a new one. For all those years, including through the ARod thing and the surgery up until last fall, Frank's 'agent', confidant,close friend and advisor was and still is Jerry Reinsdorf. When have you ever in your life heard of a player who had his owner as an advisor/agent? Those of us who know both men personally understand it perfectly. But it's not something they necessarily want blabbed to the media. Nonetheless, Thomas, who had gotten to camp early in 2000, "slimmed down and with his glove, ready to play" as Manuel said, got bushwacked by the reporter. Thomas didn't know what to do, how to control the mushroom cloud of contoversey, and fled camp, still before the reporting date, and guess where he went? Straight to Reinsdorf. The 'spin' decided in JR's office was to tell the media that Thomas was not going to get any revisions in his contract, and they ran with that. Frank was told, and I witnessed this first hand, I was there and heard it with my own ears, that the 'clause' would be 'taken care of'. Both Frank and I understood that to mean it would be taken out. Up to that point only 4 total people had even seen Thomas' contract, and one of them was dead. Reinsdorf, Thomas' agent, Thomas, but only for his signature, and myself. The contract was kept in JR's office, away from all the rest of the team's contracts. Thomas reported to camp on time, and was advised not to talk to the media.

Last fall, when Einhorn needed transplant surgery, JR's only thought was of Eddie. That's when Williams went into JR's office, technically OK, but morally not, and took the contract and invoked the clause. Thomas was shocked, I was pissed. We were lied to. The 'spin' on that was to call it something other than the 'diminished skills', so 'RPR' was put out, and, technically, Thomas and I were not lied to. It is a business thing, some understand, but most call it playing games. It is, but that's another story. Anyway, Einhorn goes through surgery, is looking good, JR knows he will take care of his friend, and try not to upset his G.M., that's Jerry, and keep me out of his hair, because I'm not always so nice. When KW went to the Dominican to scout, JR got together with Thomas' new agent, a friend of JR's and recommended to Frank by JR, and they made certain that KW's flight back was in the air before they did the new deal. When Williams landed, he got a call from his assisitant, was livid, and called into JR's office. Thomas was on one line, speaker phone, and KW on the other, with JR, Frank's agent and me in the room. Williams, screaming, said "I will trade his ass by the break". JR looked to me to shut my mouth, and no one else said a word. That's where that stands now, though Williams is G.M. in name only. He crossed Einhorn, and that deal is done, I believe HSC has told you all about that. Frank got an offer of more money than his old contract from Danny Evans to play for the Dodgers, but Frank decided to stay here, be closer to his kids, and with the asurrance from JR he'd be taken care of. He was.

That's the gist of the story, there's always more, but the important info is there to help understand that much goes on behind the scenes the fans and media do not know. When it harms my friends, I talk about it. I think both Thomas and JR are fine people, and real Sox fans would love them both if they knew all the truth.

That is a really interesting post. I am going to have to take some time and digest that one. It also fits right into the KW is gone theory too.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Thomas turned down a bigger than his original contract of $10 million per year from the L.A. Dodgers and Dan Evans to stay in Chicago, mostly because of his kids.

I don't speak to Megan, but I'm sure someone here can confirm that Frank sees his kids about as much as I see my neice who lives in Florida.

Didn't his ex say in her 'tell all' interview last season that Frank is a very good father, loves his kids very much and sees them all the time?

She said a lot of things. Doesn't make them true (not that he's not a good dad, but that he sees them all the time).

 

For example, she failed to mention that she takes the kids to Georgia during the summer to stay with her parents for weeks at a time, and seemingly out of spite, does it when the Sox are in town. I have yet to see her or the kids at one game yet this year where in the past I have seen them at least once a week. Crystal called her to see if she wanted to meet when she was here closing on the sale of the house and she was in Georgia. I don't think Frank sees them much at all and from what I've seen, it's been this way for the past 2 years.

I'd have to say don't know for certain. I do know he talks about his kids often, and I at least have the impression he sees them whenever he can, but families do cover up sometimes, I suppose.

[Texsox]

I'd have to say don't know for certain. I do know he talks about his kids often, and I at least have the impression he sees them whenever he can, but families do cover up sometimes, I suppose.

Which makes at least one in the family understanding pr. I don't know of anyone who spends as much time with their kids as they would want to.

 

Bottom line for me after 30 years as a Sox fan, Thomas is the best hitter I've watched. In the mid 90's Frank was must see TV. It is too bad that our society places so much emphasis today on what happens outside the lines. Who really cared if Frank hired non union labor to build his house? How many times was stupid stuff like that publicized?

 

I had the pleasure of a couple conversations with Baines and he is a true gentleman and a credit to the Sox organization, I wish circumstances would of had him playing his entire career as a Sox. But as a hitter I still would prefer to watch Frank to Baines.

[southsider2k5]

I'd have to say don't know for certain. I do know he talks about his kids often, and I at least have the impression he sees them whenever he can, but families do cover up sometimes, I suppose.

Which makes at least one in the family understanding pr. I don't know of anyone who spends as much time with their kids as they would want to.

 

Bottom line for me after 30 years as a Sox fan, Thomas is the best hitter I've watched. In the mid 90's Frank was must see TV. It is too bad that our society places so much emphasis today on what happens outside the lines. Who really cared if Frank hired non union labor to build his house? How many times was stupid stuff like that publicized?

 

I had the pleasure of a couple conversations with Baines and he is a true gentleman and a credit to the Sox organization, I wish circumstances would of had him playing his entire career as a Sox. But as a hitter I still would prefer to watch Frank to Baines.

There is no comparing Frank Thomas to Harold Baines. That is a joke. Harold was relatively consistant for a long period of time. Frank was incredible for about 10 years. The only advantage that Harold would have on Frank was defensively in his day Harold was a tough RFer. Frank was average at best in the field. But at the plate Frank blows away Baines so badly it isn't even funny.

 

Frank and Joe Jackson are the two best hitters in White Sox history. No one else deserves to be mentioned with these two guys.

[Soxplosion]

Very interesting ncorg. So are you just good friends with JR and Thomas or do you have a very high position in the organization. To have been one of three living people to have seen Franks contract, that leads me to think you were more than just a friend. I bet you talk to JR a lot. And JR wont let Kenny trade Thomas, correct?

[Guest Ncorgbl]

regards the injury ... i knew it was triceps.  just had a little brain fart there.  i don't think that changes the gist of what i said tho.

 

as to the trest of your post ... i appreciate you taking the time to explain what you did.  you understand that MOST of us have nothing else to go by other than the media.  like it or not we all make opinions on available knowledge in all aspects of life.  that's just the way it is.  i will say that i wouldn't bet much on knowledge gained that way. nevertheless at a sox gab site such as this you discuss from these biases. otherwise no one talks except those like yourself who are 'inside'.  i would add that even those 'in the know' don't always have the straight story ... just what they happen to be privy to.  if you say thomas is a great guy then i cannot argue with you.  but then maybe you're both jerks. i don't know you either.  (the last was said with a smile and i am not suggesting it's true ... but you get my point). 

i still think there's something wrong with thomas' arrangement with jr (who i dispise as an owner). at the least it would seem to be a conflict of interest, and very naive of thomas to have.  for a supposed intelligent person this doesn't seem like good business. 

 

perhaps you can explain why there are so many people who feel as i do! is FT just an unlucky soul that we all misunderstand?  are all stars of his magnitude put through this wringer? 

i don't doubt your comments about KW are true but i still feel thomas has himself to blame for his plight.  at least much of it. 

 

reaching back to an earlier comment i made, i did wanted to trade frank after 2000. but not because i don't like the guy.  i felt he'd reached his absolute pinnacle in that season and the time was best to move him.  we desperately needed pitching and i believe we could have scooped up a lot for him.  he wasn't going anywhere but downhill after that going into his mid thirties.  don't give me bonds or other examples of guys who got better after that.  those are the big exceptions and thomas being a big man was very unlikely to follow suit. the percentages said move him then.  keep in mind i do not have considerations for the actual persons. i am only concerned, in this context, with what's best for the team's future.

 

hey ... maybe i'd feel different if i knew the man, i don't know.

You do have someone, at least one, who has a good viewpoint already posting here in HSC. Her 'sources' are different than mine, and on those occasions I'm shut out, her information helps clear up the view, as it comes from a different area of operations. A nice 'check' if you will, when the rumours fly!

 

I can only offer my opinion and viewpoint as to why many fans feel as you do about Thomas, Reinsdorf and the Sox organization.

 

It's my friend Jerry's fault.

 

When JR and EE bought the team, as much as we all loved Veeck, the organization was a complete and utter mess. Players contracts were on scraps of paper and napkins in Bill's pockets, literally! It was hilarious, great fun for all of us to tease about, but not something someone who just spent several million dollars on would find the same. Eddie was the driving force behind getting a baseball team, Jerry would do anything for his friend and partner. So Eddie ran things, made the quote the team was a mess and the media took it as a personal insult to Veeck. Then they announced that 'SportsVision' would be the media to carry the Sox, cable in it's infancy. That's where EE and JR made their fortune, and anyone with half a brain knew that was coming. Harry Caray saw it as limiting his exposure to 'his fans' and decide to weasel out of his contract. At the time, and still, to a lesser extent, the team provide the media with comp food and beverage, and comp tickets to their families. Veeck let them all in. Well, Bill Gleason abused the hospitality by bringing big groups to most games, Einhorn got tired of being taken, and shut it down completely, though temporarily. Gleason then went on a tirade in the papers and others followed suit, some to this day, others who came on later only because that's the mode the media was in when they started writing here.

Some in the media, like Marriotti and the SCORE who arrived after all that printed or reported quite afew fabrications, so much so that neither is welcomed at the park. They are not banned, that's against MLB rules, but they are ignored, to the point that 'KotexBoy' has underlings do his leg work there, and when they are found out, they get replaced. (One of KB's boys is the one who went to Thomas, said that David Wells blasted him on his radio show, which was not accurrate, and the fiasco was on. Thomas confronted Wells, Wells had WMVP replay the interview, Frank understood, and they both chased the guy out of the clubhouse. I think he's still runnung. Of course that part of the story never made it to the nightly news.) If the SCORE 'reports' anything, rest assurred it's made up. They are completely in the dark because of their flat out lies. Jiggetts was the only trusted one, and Williams went on his show last season, then learned his lesson when the other personalities tried to twist his words and tried to scuttle Jiggs in the process.

Because of all this, no one gets any good PR out of the organization. Jerry says. all the time, don't worry about it, we can handle the bad, just win a Championship and it'll all go away. I argue that all the time. I have said many times that I could PR the owners and organization into a very positive light in Chicago in less than 90 days, there's that much good to talk about with these guys, but Reinsdorf wont have it, he wants the fans to appreciate the team, not him, by winning it all, and it hasnt happened yet.

All the stockholders fully support and genuinely like Jerry and Eddie. That should tell everyone something. It's not the money, the stock is set up to not yield dividends, and the only profit could come from selling. None made the purchase to make money anyway, and there are 'perks', being treated like owners for one. About a month ago the SCORE was reporting on Mike North's show about a 'special' investor's meeting to fire someone. That was as hilarious as it gets. That 'meeting', North's inside sources told him about was nothing more than the monthly get together to smoke good cigars and drink great single malt! It's a regular thing all summer long.

JR could change the misperceptions in a heartbeat, but he won't, preferring instead to 'earn' the fan's by winning. He is loyal to a fault, there is no better friend to have. he believes baseball people know more about running the team than he, but I think he's wrong.I had hoped his 'closed door meeting' last fall and the results would've proved that to him. The players never want to leave the Sox, there'sreason for that, and those who left by William's hand complained about Williams only. KW does have this team messed up in the head, Einhorn is trying to straighten out the mess as we speak.

These two guys are bigger fans than we are, but we will never know that, they wouldn't even suggest it. I'd bet anything that JR bashers who would meet and talk to JR would come away impressed. Again, some who post here have already experienced that. But the bottom line, and Reinsdorf says this himself, rests with him.

[Soxplosion]

If what you say about Wells is true, then I guess I owe Wells an apology. I always ripped him for ripping Thomas. Youve made some very important revelations about the innerworks of the Sox organization, corg...

[Soxplosion]

Corg, this might be hard for such an important man, but do you think its possible you could get Thomas or JR to stop by here sometime? Im sure Jerry carries a laptop so he could probably stop in during one of the games. Im not sure when Thomas could but Im sure he has a few open minutes...

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Corg, this might be hard for such an important man,  but do you think its possible you could get Thomas or JR to stop by here sometime? Im sure Jerry carries a laptop so he could probably stop in during one of the games. Im not sure when Thomas could but Im sure he has a few open minutes...

Frank doesn't play with computers. Jerry gets mad at me for what I write on MLB, so I don't think I'd tell him about here!

My notebook has satellite link, and I bring it to the park. Last year I had him listen to 'SoxandRoll' with RPS and JoeyBatters. He did laugh, but I don't think he wants to be too close to those of us whilewe're over here!

Like most, I don't think he liked that Irishman much at all:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

RPS, gotcha! :finger

[Soxplosion]

Oh ok. I gave it a shot atleast. Someday tho, I hope I get to meet Thomas. That would be awesome!

[Rex Hudler]

Ncorgbl,

 

I commend your loyalty to Jerry and Frank. I can certainly understand your feelings about Frank and although I don't completely agree with you, I am more than willing to admit there are two sides to every story and that both sides are not always heard equally.

 

I do have a couple of questions, however...

 

1. Is there any truth to the rumor(s) that KW is on his way out as GM? Is he still running the team as GM at this point or in title only?

 

2. If KW has been as insubordinate as you say he has, then why has Jerry not fixed that problem by getting rid of Kenny? Does he not want to admit to his mistake in hiring him? Is he just too damned nice?

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Ncorgbl,

 

I commend your loyalty to Jerry and Frank.  I can certainly understand your feelings about Frank and although I don't completely agree with you, I am more than willing to admit there are two sides to every story and that both sides are not always heard equally.

 

I do have a couple of questions, however...

 

1.  Is there any truth to the rumor(s) that KW is on his way out as GM?  Is he still running the team as GM at this point or in title only?

 

2.  If KW has been as insubordinate as you say he has, then why has Jerry not fixed that problem by getting rid of Kenny?  Does he not want to admit to his mistake in hiring him?  Is he just too damned nice?

Williams is GM in name only, as far as the team itself goes. Again, the things he did were within the boundries of his job description, but not within the stated desires of the owner. It's one of those business 'fine line' things that when successful, they say pushes the envelope, and when not, is in deep s*** with the boss. JR would just work around him, not wanting to upset things at the moment.

However, and I think HSC posted this a while ago, KW directly violated an order fron Einhorn. That don't fly. He's toast. There are many complications, the family thing too, but Williams will step down 'to spend more time with his family' when they decide the time is right. HSC's house hunting info confirmed and pointed me in who to ask when all this came about. We both thought, based on someone else's opinion that Williams was to be canned immediately, Eddie is a force, but that was stalled by the complicated contract and other issues.