White Sox vs Twins 1:10 pm CSN

[fathom]

Santana is a great pitcher, but we look absolutely like little leaguers against him. Not everyone struggles to score a single run against him like we do. We make him look this way, because we are only looking for a single pitch and trying to just hit it hard. We need more line drive swings and a lot less of the lets hit a dong off of Santana routine and we would succeed better.

 

Paul Konerko is the goat of this game so far. He's the only one who looks like he has no clue, and his error more than likely directly led to us losing this game.

[CYGarland]

That inning symbolizes a lot of our problems this year. Leadoff guy gets on, you get a 2 out hit, and you still don't score after the called 3rd strike.

Our offense is so station2station its not even funny. When we dont hit Hr's we have a tough time scoring

[fathom]

You have to laugh at Vazquez b****ing about a call that wasn't even close.

[WHarris1]

f*** you Javy, don't get pissed at the ump...get outs

[kwolf68]

Javy is a loser plain and simply...his "Stuff" isn't that good either...sorry folks, but how many times does he hang an off-speed pitch? There are TONS of players in the minors who can throw a good curve ball 1/3 of the time.

 

That isnt taking into account his inability to pychologically handle the mental side of the game.

 

This trade was a bust and I'd rather have anyone in here than him.

 

As far as the McCarthy haters....at least the guy did have a role in our title season last year, or did we forget the 1-hitter in Texas and the shutout (for 8) in Boston? Javy would never do that.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

Evidently if you may want a guy to join your coaching staff next season, its a requirement to have him on the roster this season.

 

Oh, that's why Javy's on the roster. Next year's bullpen catcher. So long, Man Soo Lee.

[G&T]

Paul Konerko is the goat of this game so far. He's the only one who looks like he has no clue, and his error more than likely directly led to us losing this game.

 

No, that play did start the inning, it was the stupid throws that took away possible double plays. This has been a team effort.

[fathom]

Javy is a loser plain and simply...his "Stuff" isn't that good either...sorry folks, but how many times does he hang an off-speed pitch? There are TONS of players in the minors who can throw a good curve ball 1/3 of the time.

 

I've been saying all year that his stuff is very overrated.

[Dick Allen]

Not sure. IMO, KW didnt want to risk Mac in the rotation. Look at Liriano. Look at Verlander. Both have had to deal with arm and shoulder problems because of +Innings. I think Williams wanted to ease Mac into role.

 

Now, how good of a job they have done with that this season is another story....

This might be true, but you are going to have the same problem with his innings next year.

[Rishard101]

That play looked exactly like te last out of the World Series. Good Times!

[Chisoxrd5]

Uh...Chris Widger. Alomar is here to be a better catcher than Chris Widger.

 

The problem is that the current Sandy Alomar Jr. is not a better catcher than Chris Widger. Is Spanky LaValliere available?

 

Javier Vazquez needs to take care of his own s*** and not complain about the Umpiring. Its not the umps fault that you and the rest of this starting pitching staff gives up the lead everytme our pathetic offense (according to Freddy Garcia) gives it to them.

[fathom]

No, that play did start the inning, it was the stupid throws that took away possible double plays. This has been a team effort.

 

Doesn't matter, if you get the speedy guy leading off the inning out on a ROUTINE grounder to 1B, it changes the complexion of that inning. Vazquez SUCKS out of the stretch.

 

This might be true, but you are going to have the same problem with his innings next year.

 

I can't wait for Ozzie to have the shortest leash in history on him next year. I might have to take a vacation from this board for a long time if we end up trading Garland instead of Garcia or Vaz.

Edited August 20, 2006 by fathom

[WHarris1]

Doesn't matter, if you get the speedy guy leading off the inning out on a ROUTINE grounder to 1B, it changes the complexion of that inning. Vazquez SUCKS out of the stretch.

No doubt that E was game changing

[kapkomet]

As far as the McCarthy haters....at least the guy did have a role in our title season last year, or did we forget the 1-hitter in Texas and the shutout (for 8) in Boston? Javy would never do that.

GMAB. I'm far from a McCarthy hater. In fact, I'm probably more supportive of him then even a lot of you. He's been mismanaged this year, but he certainly wasn't going to be the 20-3 pitcher many make him here to be.

 

Personally, as somone just mentioned, I would rather have him go through this season like this then see him go the route of Verlander, Liriano, et. al.

 

The kid's going to be awesome, but not this year. As a starter this year, he'd 100% have a losing record. No doubt in my mind. Then what would everyone b**** about?

[Milkman delivers]

Javy is a loser plain and simply...his "Stuff" isn't that good either...sorry folks, but how many times does he hang an off-speed pitch? There are TONS of players in the minors who can throw a good curve ball 1/3 of the time.

 

That isnt taking into account his inability to pychologically handle the mental side of the game.

 

This trade was a bust and I'd rather have anyone in here than him.

 

As far as the McCarthy haters....at least the guy did have a role in our title season last year, or did we forget the 1-hitter in Texas and the shutout (for 8) in Boston? Javy would never do that.

 

You know, that's a good point. People routinely defend Ozzie's terrible moves and Garcia's crappy pitching this year by saying they helped us win the WS last year, but then they say that McCarthy has proven nothing and wouldn't help us despite being a driving force for our playoff push last year.

[fathom]

The kid's going to be awesome, but not this year. As a starter this year, he'd 100% have a losing record. No doubt in my mind. Then what would everyone b**** about?

 

I disagree that he'd have a losing record. If he was in Vazquez's spot, he'd easily have a winning record. We've given Vaz the lead in almost every start, and his blow-ups have taken us from a comfortable lead to trailing very fast. If we really think McCarthy would have an ERA over 5, then KW should be fired for not trading him when his value is sky high.

Edited August 20, 2006 by fathom

[Chisoxrd5]

GMAB. I'm far from a McCarthy hater. In fact, I'm probably more supportive of him then even a lot of you. He's been mismanaged this year, but he certainly wasn't going to be the 20-3 pitcher many make him here to be.

 

Personally, as somone just mentioned, I would rather have him go through this season like this then see him go the route of Verlander, Liriano, et. al.

 

The kid's going to be awesome, but not this year. As a starter this year, he'd 100% have a losing record. No doubt in my mind. Then what would everyone b**** about?

 

 

I dont know how you could think 100% he would of had a losing record. Garcia and Vazquez have pitched below average all year and still are .500 or better.

 

I would have preferred Bmac log innings as a starter in AAA than use him like this. This is like throwing away an entire season for him...no consistent work, no use as a starter, and no added confidence.

[Dick Allen]

GMAB. I'm far from a McCarthy hater. In fact, I'm probably more supportive of him then even a lot of you. He's been mismanaged this year, but he certainly wasn't going to be the 20-3 pitcher many make him here to be.

 

Personally, as somone just mentioned, I would rather have him go through this season like this then see him go the route of Verlander, Liriano, et. al.

 

The kid's going to be awesome, but not this year. As a starter this year, he'd 100% have a losing record. No doubt in my mind. Then what would everyone b**** about?

If he was in Vazquez's spot in the rotation and the team scored as many runs as they have for Javy, McCarthy would have to be really awful to be under .500. I think in 10 of Vazquez's 11 victories the Sox have scored 8 or more runs, and they have scored a lot of runs in 3 or 4 of his other starts. The problem I see is with how Ozzie uses him, this really is a lost season for him. He's not learning anything. Next season he will be just as green as he was this season.

[CWSOX45]

Wow talk about being in a s***ty place....we either hit off Santana, or we make him throw more pitches...and try to hit off the Twins bullpen....either way it's not gonna be easy...

[southsideirish71]

Paul Konerko is the goat of this game so far. He's the only one who looks like he has no clue, and his error more than likely directly led to us losing this game.

 

It was a lack of good fundamentals.

 

the error wasnt bad.

 

Its the throw by Pablo on the next play into third that allowed the trailer to advance to second. Then Javy nibbles and nibbles and walks the next guy. then grooves a pitch down the middle on pitch one to Mike Redmond.

 

 

 

Things that need to be addressed in next years ST. Baserunning, and where to throw a ball on different plays. We have too many guys throwing the ball into the wrong base allowing trailers to follow and we turn a single run, into multiple runs by bad fundamentals.

[kapkomet]

I disagree that he'd have a losing record. If he was in Vazquez's spot, he'd easily have a winning record. We've given Vaz the lead in almost every start, and his blow-ups have taken us from a comfortable lead to trailing very fast.

You're assuming that B-Mac wouldn't have those blowups? He has some growing up to do... and everyone seems to forget that. Sometimes, I think Sox fans put McCarthy on the same pedistal that Cubs fans put Prior on. Think about it.

 

The approach taken with McCarthy - I'd rather see this then him injured all over the place in the next 3-5 years.

[Dick Allen]

I disagree that he'd have a losing record. If he was in Vazquez's spot, he'd easily have a winning record. We've given Vaz the lead in almost every start, and his blow-ups have taken us from a comfortable lead to trailing very fast. If we really think McCarthy would have an ERA over 5, then KW should be fired for not trading him when his value is sky high.

Vazquez has had the lead in all but 2 of his starts. Sometimes he had the lead 2 or 3 times in the same game.

[fathom]

You're assuming that B-Mac wouldn't have those blowups? He has some growing up to do... and everyone seems to forget that. Sometimes, I think Sox fans put McCarthy on the same pedistal that Cubs fans put Prior on. Think about it.

 

I think McCarthy has much better mound composure than Vazquez does. I'm not even one of these fans that think he's the next Mike Mussina, etc.

[kwolf68]

I've been saying all year that his stuff is very overrated.

 

It is. All these people keep justifying this trade by saying he is a head-case, but with "great stuff." Whatever...I don't see it. He has a decent fastball, but both his curve and slider are not consistent...he hangs them both very often, with his curveball being about un-throwable it is so bad.

 

I do like his change-up and while he throws that pitch fairly well, his inability to properly locate the pitch leads to 82 mile per hour cheese in the hitters wheel house. He's the clown who gave up Jason Bartletts only homer this year.

 

Adding to the top of hit-or-miss stuff, is two other problems...

 

1-Lack of courage-Can't pitch around errors, bad calls, or bad breaks. If anything goes wrong, he lacks the intestinal fortitude to MAN UP and minimize the damage

 

2-He isn't smart-My sense is he is just as hittable on 0-2 as he is 2-0. The hitter knows 0-2 cheese is quite likely going to happen. How many 0-2 or 1-2 cheese balls has this joker thrown this year????

 

When some pitchers get you 0-2, its lights out. Javy is not one of these guys.

 

I deeply wish and hope Javy Vazquez is dealt by next season, for two prospects with one being possible major league ready pitcher (Heilman of the Mets comes to mind as the Mets GM likes Javy...but the Mets are scared to trade arms).

 

Vazquez stinks...that facts are facts...I've seen enough of him this year to know we have a subpar starter on our hands...Without our offense, he'd be 5-15 this year. At best, he could be useful in long relief.

[fathom]

Things that need to be addressed in next years ST. Baserunning, and where to throw a ball on different plays. We have too many guys throwing the ball into the wrong base allowing trailers to follow and we turn a single run, into multiple runs by bad fundamentals.

 

This is as bad of a fundamental team as I've ever seen on the Sox, and that takes a lot to accomplish. We let runners circle the bases on us, and our base running is beyond pathetic.