A plea to White Sox fans

[southsider2k5]

We're more negative than Cubs fans? I couldn't disagree more. No one cares about the Hawks, and the Bulls/Bears don't split up the fan base like the baseball teams do. Cubs fans have completely changed their mindset from 3 or 4 years ago.

 

Sox fans are WAY more negative than Cub fans, there isn't a doubt in my mind. Example number one would be the fact there are still sellouts every single night at Wrigley Field, despite the product on the field. If the Sox had a record like that, they would be drawing 15K, and even the Bulls and Bears would be experiencing no-shows on a large scale.

[Harry Chappas]

What I believe we are seeing is that this team is unable to sustain a level of excellence great enough to ease the fans fears. Everyone is still of the mindset that this organization as failed before and will continue to fail. Last season is not the norm and is the excuse for why we will fail this year. When Detroit was one of the worst teams in baseball history, they kept us out of the playoffs. Now just when it looked like we had turned a corner, a team that was 15-42 on the road took 2 of the last 3. We are waiting for the next 3-12 run which put us behind the 8 ball a month ago. In reality, Detorit is looking very beatable now and we are not taking advantage of it. The next 7 days should have playoff intensity. I would be nice if Pods and Uribe could get into a hot streak along with the rotation.

[fathom]

Sox fans are WAY more negative than Cub fans, there isn't a doubt in my mind. Example number one would be the fact there are still sellouts every single night at Wrigley Field, despite the product on the field. If the Sox had a record like that, they would be drawing 15K, and even the Bulls and Bears would be experiencing no-shows on a large scale.

 

Are we really counting the tour groups from Iowa as the Cubs fan base? I thought we were considering legitimate fans of the team? Out of all years, this is definitely not the time where we should be bashing our fan base. The attendance has been sensational this year, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find people saying our fans are negative outside of those who read this site, etc.

 

Me, I am savoring this year. Win or lose, I'm going to enjoy my time on the top of the heap. If we can't do it again, well, we did it once. And it was magical. And once upon a time called 2004 that would've been good enough for me. Because it took f***ing forever to get here,and I'll be damned if I'm going to let a few sourpusses who have lost some perspective ruin it for me.

 

FWIW....losses this year are a hell of a lot easier to get over than they were last year. The one thing that has really caused the outpour of frustration for Sox fans this year is that the expectations for this season were incredibly high. There was no way we were going to match the magic last season's team had, even with the bolstered roster. I say this often, but the more things happen this year, the more I appreciate how everything fell into place last season.

[Mplssoxfan]

Are we really counting the tour groups from Iowa as the Cubs fan base? I thought we were considering legitimate fans of the team? Out of all years, this is definitely not the time where we should be bashing our fan base. The attendance has been sensational this year, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find people saying our fans are negative outside of those who read this site, etc.

FWIW....losses this year are a hell of a lot easier to get over than they were last year. The one thing that has really caused the outpour of frustration for Sox fans this year is that the expectations for this season were incredibly high. There was no way we were going to match the magic last season's team had, even with the bolstered roster. I say this often, but the more things happen this year, the more I appreciate how everything fell into place last season.

 

Do you think it would be fair to make a broad categorization that "Sox fans are glass-half-empty people"? That's not meant to be negative in any way, but I feel that it's the truth.

[kapkomet]

Aren't critical posts of the White Sox allowed on this site though? This is the best Sox site on the internet, and that's because it's soxtalk.com and not soxcheerleadingtalk.com. There's no one on this site who's 100 pct negative. Hell, even in this very thread, two of the people considered the most pessimistic, Milkman and myself, were actually telling people to not freak out over losing the game yesterday.

I didn't say that, but obsessing over every single pitch and going nuts is not an enjoyable thing, and neither is reading all the spew associated with it.

 

BTW, that post wasn't specifically addressed to you, I meant it more in general.

[southsider2k5]

Are we really counting the tour groups from Iowa as the Cubs fan base? I thought we were considering legitimate fans of the team? Out of all years, this is definitely not the time where we should be bashing our fan base. The attendance has been sensational this year, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find people saying our fans are negative outside of those who read this site, etc.

 

Did I miss a purity test to buy a jersey or get into a ballpark? Yeah, as long as those people are buying merchandise and newspapers based on their favorite team, they are "fans" IMO.

 

And you missed the whole point of the post if you think I am bashing our fan base. The point is, we are getting the kind of coverage we as fans are looking for. Because White Sox fans trend towards the negative side of everything, that's why our coverage tends to follow that same theme. I know some people are going to try to jump in and pick at specifics here as usual, but unlike some, I am not presenting this as a be all end all truth of Chicago media. Its a theory. Nothing more, nothing less.

[fathom]

I didn't say that, but obsessing over every single pitch and going nuts is not an enjoyable thing, and neither is reading all the spew associated with it.

 

BTW, that post wasn't specifically addressed to you, I meant it more in general.

 

I know it wasn't addressed specifically towards me, as I know you and I had a nice debate about McCarthy yesterday (please come into the threads more and start discussions like that). Wouldn't you agree that most game threads for any sporting team is going to be reactionary and full of second guessing though?

[Wanne]

FWIW....losses this year are a hell of a lot easier to get over than they were last year. The one thing that has really caused the outpour of frustration for Sox fans this year is that the expectations for this season were incredibly high. There was no way we were going to match the magic last season's team had, even with the bolstered roster. I say this often, but the more things happen this year, the more I appreciate how everything fell into place last season.

 

 

Big time! I'm still not living in last year's glory. I have high expectations every year. One thing I do hate is how wins and losses effect my ENTIRE day until the next game. I know it's just a game and all...but damn! I still love these guys though.

 

One thing I don't want...I really don't want to be like every other Bears fan (which I am)...and reflect back on greatness 20 years ago! That team SHOULD have one at least another Super Bowl...as I feel this team COULD very easily win another WS. Expectations are high...and that's a good thing. This franchise has come a long way IMO.

[fathom]

Did I miss a purity test to buy a jersey or get into a ballpark? Yeah, as long as those people are buying merchandise and newspapers based on their favorite team, they are "fans" IMO.

 

And you missed the whole point of the post if you think I am bashing our fan base. The point is, we are getting the kind of coverage we as fans are looking for. Because White Sox fans trend towards the negative side of everything, that's why our coverage tends to follow that same theme. I know some people are going to try to jump in and pick at specifics here as usual, but unlike some, I am not presenting this as a be all end all truth of Chicago media. Its a theory. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I completely respect your theory...but I ask this: has the coverage of the Sox been that bad this year? I think the media has been rather fair to us this year, and they've definitely given us the respect that a world champion deserves. We're definitely a glass half-empty fan base, and that started well before most of us were born. I've actually been surprised that the media hasn't made a bigger issue out of some of Ozzie's comments this year.

[southsider2k5]

I completely respect your theory...but I ask this: has the coverage of the Sox been that bad this year? I think the media has been rather fair to us this year, and they've definitely given us the respect that a world champion deserves. We're definitely a glass half-empty fan base, and that started well before most of us were born. I've actually been surprised that the media hasn't made a bigger issue out of some of Ozzie's comments this year.

 

I think the local media is afraid of losing their lockerroom access if you ask me, and that's why they haven't been harder on some of the more stupid stuff that Ozzie has said this year. Nationally his stupid stuff seems to be playing more than it has here, but that could just be me.

 

As for the first part, it depends on what you mean by "bad". We have gotten TONS of coverage this year. Way more than we ever have gotten. I would be really interested to see the perspectives if the shoes were reversed and it was the Cubs having a disappointing season after winning a WS. Would Cub fans still be singing about how great the team is, or would everyone be pissed because they weren't running away with it again? Then of course the next question is would the media coverage of it look the same as it does now?

[kapkomet]

I know it wasn't addressed specifically towards me, as I know you and I had a nice debate about McCarthy yesterday (please come into the threads more and start discussions like that). Wouldn't you agree that most game threads for any sporting team is going to be reactionary and full of second guessing though?

Those sorts of discussions are what make this site one of the best. We both had a viewpoint, and tried to get the other to see, and actually met somewhere in the middle, I think.

 

That's what soxtalk is supposed to be, not this obsessive, reactionary CRAP that we see here many more times then not. I mean, it's ok to an extent, but we see the same "Vazquez pooped himself and he sucks turd balls" over and over and over and over and over and over. That's the stuff that's just insane. WE KNOW, stop obsessing. That's what I'm trying to say.

[Greg Hibbard]

the expectations going into the season were high?

 

why aren't those expectations STILL high?

 

oh, and here's a multiple choice exam for you:

 

1) The White Sox have

 

a. slightly underachieved (5 or fewer games)

b. noticably underachieved (5-10 games)

c. greatly underachieved (10-15 games)

d. vastly underachieved (15 or more games)

 

Even if Vazquez, Buehrle and Garcia were pitching to the ERA norms, and the hitting was WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE EXPECTED going into the season (ie Crede hitting 30 points lower, Thome maybe being more injured and hitting for less of an average, Podsednik stealing more bases, JD having slightly lower numbers), I think you'd be hard pressed to find 6 more wins/less losses. Seriously, did you expect this team to be 35 over at this point?

 

If this team is 79-44 right now instead of 73-50 (a SIX game difference! SIX!) everyone is high-fiving one another and getting the champagne on ice.

 

The tone of some of the members of this site makes it seem like we've had the most disasterous season possible, which is obviously such a gross overstatement it embarrasses anyone who has a brain (White Sox fan or not)

Edited August 21, 2006 by Greg Hibbard

[southsider2k5]

the expectations going into the season were high?

 

why aren't those expectations STILL high?

 

oh, and here's a multiple choice exam for you:

 

1) The White Sox have

 

a. slightly underachieved (5 or fewer games)

b. noticably underachieved (5-10 games)

c. greatly underachieved (10-15 games)

d. vastly underachieved (15 or more games)

 

Even if Vazquez, Buehrle and Garcia were pitching to the ERA norms, and the hitting was WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE EXPECTED going into the season (ie Crede hitting 30 points lower, Thome maybe being more injured and hitting for less of an average, Podsednik stealing more bases, JD having slightly lower numbers), I think you'd be hard pressed to find 6 more wins/less losses. Seriously, did you expect this team to be 35 over at this point?

 

If this team is 79-44 right now instead of 73-50 (a SIX game difference! SIX!) everyone is high-fiving one another and getting the champagne on ice.

 

The tone of some of the members of this site makes it seem like we've had the most disasterous season possible, which is obviously such a gross overstatement it embarrasses anyone who has a brain (White Sox fan or not)

 

If the pitching had been like last year, we would have at least 80 wins right now, probably more like 82 or 83.

[SABR Sox]

I will agree with the whole Cubs portion, don't let them bring you down Sox fans, just ignore them if they give you any crap regarding the WC race or any sort of "choke" if we do fall later in the season.

 

But screw the whole "savor the title" thing. I did that the entire winter and its time to move on. Don't live in the past.

[Greg Hibbard]

If the pitching had been like last year, we would have at least 80 wins right now, probably more like 82 or 83.

 

Is it realistic or not to expect Jon Garland to have that type of season again? Is it realistic or not to expect Garcia and Contreras to start showing signs of age?

 

Everything clicked all at once for the starting pitching last year. That's never going to happen like that again.

 

What about the hitting? Why can't I say the lineup has OVERacheived (which they clearly have) without someone always running to the goddamned "the pitching last year..." argument.

[southsider2k5]

Is it realistic or not to expect Jon Garland to have that type of season again? Is it realistic or not to expect Garcia and Contreras to start showing signs of age?

 

Everything clicked all at once for the starting pitching last year. That's never going to happen like that again.

 

What about the hitting? Why can't I say the lineup has OVERacheived (which they clearly have) without someone always running to the goddamned "the pitching last year..." argument.

 

I think you are working off of the assumption that hitting and pitching are equal parts in winning baseball games. I don't believe that at all, and I think history would bear me out. I truely believe many more teams have won titles with mediocre pitching and great offense, versus the other way around.

[Greg Hibbard]

I really believe that ANYONE going into this season EXPECTING to win 110+ games was setting themselves up for tremendous disappointment.

 

Even if our team performed up to expectations, even if the rest of the field didn't improve (e.g. Twins and Tigers and Yankees), even if we had NO injuries all season, it would still be a miracle to win more than 2/3rds of the games played. Only like 5 or 6 teams out of the thousands of major league baseball seasons played have ever been able to acheive that.

 

Expecting this team to win 100 games was realistic, and sets the bar high enough. It's an improvement on last season, and would've likely been the best record in the league (who knows now).

 

27-12 to do that. We're probably about 3-4 games off the pace of 100 games, not even playing close to our best ball.

 

The way some people have described this season you'd think that we were talking about Notre Dame football where 11-1 and a National Championship appearance and loss is cause for a coach getting fired.

 

Get a grip, sox fans.

[fathom]

I really believe that ANYONE going into this season EXPECTING to win 110+ games was setting themselves up for tremendous disappointment.

 

Get a grip, sox fans.

 

There's no one who expected more out of this team this season that KW and Hawk. KW didn't trade one of our most exciting prospects in years in order to get a 13 million dollar 5th starter if he didn't expect the Sox to repeat. Everyone in the organization this year has said it's Repeat or Bust.

[whitesoxfan101]

Who give a s*** what you want?

 

Nobody does or should, but if you think 2005 gives the team a pass for the next decade, your an idiot and need to go root for the Cubs. We aren't loveable or losers, the fact it took 88 years for last year to happen is a joke, and anybody who accepts failure due to us winning a title is a bigger joke.

[Milkman delivers]

So a fan is one who s***s all over their team every chance they get, only to come back and say "CROW" when something goes right?

 

Stay home.

 

Well, I'm not going to listen to someone who doesn't even live in the state my team plays in.

[Soxbadger]

Its not accepting failure.

 

Its the fact you dont have to whine, b****, and moan when the team has a winning record and if the season ended today would be in the playoffs.

 

Also its sickening to hear the words "underachieving" being thrown around at a team with the 4th best record.

 

I dont believe anyone is saying give them a 10 year pass, I believe they are saying:

 

Hey most of these guys brought us home a championship. The team is not going to change over the last 2 months, so we might as well support the Sox, instead of whining constantly.

[fathom]

Its not accepting failure.

 

Its the fact you dont have to whine, b****, and moan when the team has a winning record and if the season ended today would be in the playoffs.

 

Also its sickening to hear the words "underachieving" being thrown around at a team with the 4th best record.

 

I dont believe anyone is saying give them a 10 year pass, I believe they are saying:

 

Hey most of these guys brought us home a championship. The team is not going to change over the last 2 months, so we might as well support the Sox, instead of whining constantly.

 

I have no problem saying that players like Garcia, Buehrle, Vazquez, Podsednik, and Cotts are underachieving this season. Most of these guys are paid a lot of money, and it doesn't make you a bad fan to point out that they're not playing up to their potential.

[Soxbadger]

There is quite a difference between:

 

"I think Javy is struggling for Y reason and I think that the best way to solve the problem would be X."

 

As compared to:

 

"Javy sucks, we should have B-Mac in there."

 

That thread just gets old after the 1,000th time. Im sorry but at a point its just no longer constructive, its just a constant whine. I do not think most of us come here to read the worst things said about players, we all think them in our own heads.

 

Every fan thinks when one of their players k's, or gives up a home run, commits an error, "Damn f***ing piece of s*** cant you just make the play." We just do not have to read it every other day, eventually it just is noise.

[kapkomet]

Well, I'm not going to listen to someone who doesn't even live in the state my team plays in.

Don't you EVER question me about whether or not I'm a Sox fan. Read between those lines and get it good. And don't respond on here, either.

 

There is quite a difference between:

 

"I think Javy is struggling for Y reason and I think that the best way to solve the problem would be X."

 

As compared to:

 

"Javy sucks, we should have B-Mac in there."

 

That thread just gets old after the 1,000th time. Im sorry but at a point its just no longer constructive, its just a constant whine. I do not think most of us come here to read the worst things said about players, we all think them in our own heads.

 

Every fan thinks when one of their players k's, or gives up a home run, commits an error, "Damn f***ing piece of s*** cant you just make the play." We just do not have to read it every other day, eventually it just is noise.

^^^^^^^

 

Exactly.

[Milkman delivers]

Don't you EVER question me about whether or not I'm a Sox fan. Read between those lines and get it good. And don't respond on here, either.

^^^^^^^

 

Exactly.

 

Is that going to get me suspended or banned?

 

You said we should stay home if we're going to act the way we do. Well, I'll go. It's only a few blocks away for me, I can walk. I'll go when I damn well please.