shoota Posted August 26, 2006 Share Posted August 26, 2006 QUOTE(Wealz @ Aug 26, 2006 -> 11:56 AM) Riske has been more effective than McCarthy. Maybe he should have brought Jenks in to face Hunter in the 6th, huh? McCarthy is the long reliever, and he should have been the pitcher to replace Vazquez, not Cotts and then Riske. Your comment about bringing in Jenks is inaccurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Another superior game for Ozzie tonight. Nothing a struggling pitcher needs more than a strong defensive team on the field behind him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 26, 2006 -> 11:08 PM) Another superior game for Ozzie tonight. Nothing a struggling pitcher needs more than a strong defensive team on the field behind him. The game was not lost by Ozzie. It was lost by Cintron and AJ who couldn't get more than one run home with the bases loaded and only one out. It was lost by Uribe, making an error on a ball he normally sucks up. It was lost by Iguchi, grounding in to a double play for the final two outs of the game, leaving the best hitter in the AL on deck. It was not lost by Ozzie. Yes, if he did things a bit differently, then maybe the Sox would have won, but it's far from being his fault when placing the blame for this game on someone. Edited August 27, 2006 by Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Felix @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 03:12 AM) The game was not lost by Ozzie. It was lost by Cintron and AJ who couldn't get more than one run home with the bases loaded and only one out. It was lost by Uribe, making an error on a ball he normally sucks up. It was lost by Iguchi, grounding in to a double play for the final two outs of the game, leaving the best hitter in the AL on deck. It was not lost by Ozzie. Yes, if he did things a bit differently, then maybe the Sox would have won, but it's far from being his fault when placing the blame for this game on someone. How many times is he going to put Mackowiak in CF, only for it to blow up in our face? Seriously, we're almost 130 games into the season, and he hasn't learned one freaking thing from what's happened. Ozzie is getting absolutely owned by Gardenhire in this series so far. Edited August 27, 2006 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinkingShip06 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 How many times is he going to put Mackowiak in CF, only for it to blow up in our face? Seriously, we're almost 130 games into the season, and he hasn't learned one freaking thing from what's happened. Ozzie is getting absolutely owned by Gardenhire in this series so far. owned by just about every manager in the league this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 26, 2006 -> 11:14 PM) How many times is he going to put Mackowiak in CF, only for it to blow up in our face? Seriously, we're almost 130 games into the season, and he hasn't learned one freaking thing from what's happened. Ozzie is getting absolutely owned by Gardenhire in this series so far. I agree with you that Mack shouldn't ever start in CF, but when he does and the Sox lose, you can't just blame Ozzie right away. There were many times today when the players on the field had chances to win the game and failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(Felix @ Aug 26, 2006 -> 08:12 PM) The game was not lost by Ozzie. It was lost by Cintron and AJ who couldn't get more than one run home with the bases loaded and only one out. It was lost by Uribe, making an error on a ball he normally sucks up. It was lost by Iguchi, grounding in to a double play for the final two outs of the game, leaving the best hitter in the AL on deck. It was not lost by Ozzie. Yes, if he did things a bit differently, then maybe the Sox would have won, but it's far from being his fault when placing the blame for this game on someone. The only 2 people I can think of who did not have a hand in losing tonight's game are Brandon McCarthy and Jermaine Dye. It's just a matter of proportion. Hell, I thought Jenks should have been left in for the 11th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(Felix @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 03:16 AM) I agree with you that Mack shouldn't ever start in CF, but when he does and the Sox lose, you can't just blame Ozzie right away. There were many times today when the players on the field had chances to win the game and failed. When it continues to lead to numerous runs against our pitchers, I will blame Ozzie every time. It's freaking ridiculous that we're a MLB team, and our manager has the slightest clue about his player's abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 1 second...does anyone realize that the argument here, in the "Ozzie Guillen battleground thread", is that you can't put 100% of the blame on Ozzie for the loss? Of course it's not 100% his fault. But way more of it was his fault than should have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 03:18 AM) 1 second...does anyone realize that the argument here, in the "Ozzie Guillen battleground thread", is that you can't put 100% of the blame on Ozzie for the loss? Of course it's not 100% his fault. But way more of it was his fault than should have been. Again, he violated Fathom's #1 rule. Having Mackowiak in CF doesn't give the Sox the best chance to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 I can't believe Ozzie is getting so much blame on this board this year. He's as good or better than any manager in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 26, 2006 -> 11:27 PM) He's as good or better than any manager in the game. Better in what way? Edited August 27, 2006 by WHarris1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 04:27 AM) I can't believe Ozzie is getting so much blame on this board this year. He's as good or better than any manager in the game. There are two managers in our own division who are leaps and bounds better than him. I can't believe Ozzie isn't getting more blame in the media for the continued failure of certain aspects of the Sox this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 I know we agree to disagree on Oz, fathom. I think our players are to blame. I mean the team showed some heart in coming back tonight. Can Oz pitch for Jose C who was horses***, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 04:38 AM) I know we agree to disagree on Oz, fathom. I think our players are to blame. I mean the team showed some heart in coming back tonight. Can Oz pitch for Jose C who was horses***, etc? No, he can't pitch for Contreras. However, he can stop putting Mackowiak out in CF, who has probably added .25 to every starters ERA this season. If Anderson is in CF, Contreras might have gotten away with some of those early mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 26, 2006 -> 11:40 PM) No, he can't pitch for Contreras. However, he can stop putting Mackowiak out in CF, who has probably added .25 to every starters ERA this season. If Anderson is in CF, Contreras might have gotten away with some of those early mistakes. You can't be serious. There have been very few times when Ozzie has actually cost us the game himself. People are just overreacting right now. Ozzie can't make the pitchers pitch better. What do you want him to do? Let SoxTalk manage? We'd go 162-0 every year then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 01:21 AM) There have been very few times when Ozzie has actually cost us the game himself. Well yes, considering that is quite hard to do as a manager that is true. But he has negatively impacted quite a lot of games this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 It's freaking ridiculous that we're a MLB team, and our manager has the slightest clue about his player's abilities. Fathom do you believe Oz Guillen who played the game for 15 years or however many and has 2 world series rings has no idea about his players abilities??? Fathom did he create the roster??? KW did. I disagree with his use of the Sunday lineup sometimes but my gawd you are a smart baseball person. I don't understand your infatuation with Ozzie being a s*** manager. Ozzie knows the game of baseball fathom; you act like he is about as smart as Terry Bevington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 01:28 AM) Fathom do you believe Oz Guillen who played the game for 15 years or however many and has 2 world series rings has no idea about his players abilities??? Fathom did he create the roster??? KW did. I disagree with his use of the Sunday lineup sometimes but my gawd you are a smart baseball person. I don't understand your infatuation with Ozzie being a s*** manager. Ozzie knows the game of baseball fathom; you act like he is about as smart as Terry Bevington. Explain why he starts a corner OF/3B in CF then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Because, Willie Harris, Brian Anderson is no Mickey Mantle. Brian Anderson is a nice defensive player. Brian Anderson is an average ballplayer. He likes Mack. KW is the one who acquired Mack, not Ozzie. I respect all your opinions, but I do not share the Brian ANderson love. I do not like Mack much either but geez, BA is not an everyday player. If he was he'd be hitting about .180. I think our roster was much better a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 01:37 AM) Because, Willie Harris, Brian Anderson is no Mickey Mantle. Brian Anderson is a nice defensive player. Brian Anderson is an average ballplayer. He likes Mack. KW is the one who acquired Mack, not Ozzie. I respect all your opinions, but I do not share the Brian ANderson love. I do not like Mack much either but geez, BA is not an everyday player. If he was he'd be hitting about .180. I think our roster was much better a year ago. It's not Brian Anderson love, actually has nothing to do with it. But Brian Anderson to Rob Mackowiak is seriously a monstrous defensive downgrade that frequently hurts us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 02:28 AM) Fathom do you believe Oz Guillen who played the game for 15 years or however many and has 2 world series rings has no idea about his players abilities??? Fathom did he create the roster??? KW did. I disagree with his use of the Sunday lineup sometimes but my gawd you are a smart baseball person. I don't understand your infatuation with Ozzie being a s*** manager. Ozzie knows the game of baseball fathom; you act like he is about as smart as Terry Bevington. I was willing to go along with the Mack in cf experiment early. But after you've been burned by it over and over and over and over, why do you make that choice again? And again and again and again... Do you agree on this? -- BA is good in cf. Mack is a wretched cf. If so, the only excuse for putting Mack in cf so often with a young, damn well rested BA available, would be the excuse that BA is Neifi Perez-like at the dish. I don't believe that at all, but if Ozzie knows this about his player, then he should have demanded another cf well before even noticing Sandy Alomar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Do you agree on this? -- BA is good in cf. Mack is a wretched cf. Yes I do agree on that. I do agree. But I can see why Oz doesn't want to play BA everyday. I have a feeling a lot of decisions are made by committee, KW and Oz. I do agree it is demoralizing to see Mack have no clue in cf. I just wish Brian had not been an automatic out so long for Oz to not believe he is an everyday player. That's why I moaned about the loss of Rowand so much. I know Rowand isn't perfect but BA definitely wasn't ready for everyday prime time and we have no backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 27, 2006 -> 01:37 AM) Because, Willie Harris, Brian Anderson is no Mickey Mantle. Brian Anderson is a nice defensive player. Brian Anderson is an average ballplayer. He likes Mack. KW is the one who acquired Mack, not Ozzie. I respect all your opinions, but I do not share the Brian ANderson love. I do not like Mack much either but geez, BA is not an everyday player. If he was he'd be hitting about .180. I think our roster was much better a year ago. Brian is hitting right at or over .300 for almost two months now. Why shouldn't be be in CF everyday? I could understand it back in April/May when he looked like this guy named Scott Podsednik at the plate. Our pitching sucks. One of the ways to neutralize our s***ty pitching is to play great defense. You can't do that with Mack in center. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 BA has been a better hitter since the break than Mack has. Without even discussing the obvious defensive difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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