The Ozzie Guillen Battleground Thread

[DBAHO]

All relief pitchers are not equal. Since Cotts and Riske are worse than McCarthy, MacDougal, Thornton and Jenks, the smarter (and obvious) move would have been to use them to finish such an important and winnable ballgame.

 

Win or lose, Ozzie needed to go with his best.

It's very questionable whether Riske is worse than B-Mac, or that matter Thornton so far this season. Compare the stats;

 

Riske - 2.86 ERA (for the Sox), 28.1IP, 20/13 K/BB ratio, .226 BAA, 3HR.

B-Mac - 3.82 ERA, 70.2IP, 50/24 K/BB ratio, .226 BAA, 12HR.

Thornton - 3.38 ERA, 45.1IP, 41/19 K/BB ratio, .220 BAA, 4HR.

 

Riske has a ERA+ of 163, B-Mac 122, and Thornton 138.

[Hangar18]

Memo to Ozzie: Mackowiak is NOT a Centerfielder.

 

 

Another Memo to Ozzie: You CANT have Mackowiak & Podsednik in the same game.

 

Another Memo to Ozzie: Keep Dye in the #3 Hole, Drop Thome to #5. Ive been begging for this.

[StrangeSox]

Guillen's handling of Anderson, choosing which pitchers he faces, is a big reason why he has blossomed. Sure, it sucks to have Mackowiak in center at times, but that's the price you pay to make sure Anderson develops properly. You could blame Williams for not furnishing Guillen with a better alternative than Mackowiak in center.

BS. Greg Walker correcting his swing is why he's hitting better.

 

It still makes no sense to sit BA nearly as often as he does.

[Milkman delivers]

I'm going to be so pissed when Ozzie quits because of the crap thrown on him by the fans and media.

 

Its alright, though. You can't take his rings.

 

Ha, Ozzie has the easy life right now when it comes to the media. He gets no tough questions about on-field decisions at all.

 

Grady Little was ridden out of town for one bad decision. Imagine if Ozzie had that kind of pressure on him. He'd of ran off with his tail between his legs already.

[NorthSideSox72]

Earlier this season, I was one of the people who backed Ozzie's decision to play Mack a full third of the time or even half time in CF. That was because, at that time, Anderson's hitting was so horrific that it far outweighed the positives he brought on defense.

 

Well, now, for a solid 2 to 3 months, Anderson is hitting. And his defense is still excellent. So now, the smart move is to put BA in there 90% of the time. I think Ozzie's is of the mind that he is a rookie and needs rest his first year. But honestly, Mr. Anderson looks like he is just getting stronger. Time to put him in, coach.

 

Just pointing out that even a former fan of Mack in CF 40% of the time believes that BA should now be out there nearly all the time.

[Controlled Chaos]

I'm willing to accept that Ozzie probably has more baseball knowledge than me. I'm not wiling to accept that sub par defense wins games. I along with a few others on this site wanted Brian starting in CF even during his struggles at the beginning of the year. He is leaps and bounds better that Mack. Hell, he is leaps and bounds better than Rowand. I didn't like his sub .200 avg, but if he saved runs on defense I was willing to let it play out. So, maybe I was wrong. Maybe we...were wrong. Maybe the way Ozzie played it was right. Platooning Mack, losing defense to get Brian on the right track, and putting him in a position to succeed so he can get his confidence up, worked. BA is hitting almost .300 since the ASB and still playing GG defense. Post all star he is .325 against lefties and .281 against righties. I didn't agree with Ozzies move because I don't believe in sacrificing defense for offense, but then again I'm hacking away on my keyboard and he's the manager of the Sox, so we'll go with his way.

 

So now that the manager has proven me wrong, now that his way worked for Brian, albeit at the expense of some W's, why not bask in your spoils. We have our starting CF back. Why would we go into battle without a center fielder? What championship team would do that without their hand being forced by injury? No offense to Mack at all, I like him as a player and a person. In fact, I admire him, for playing out of position when asked. A lot of players would shy away cause they know playing out their comfort zone could make them look foolish. Mack stepped up when asked and continues to step up, but he's not a center fielder. He never was. He's just a guy doing his best to help the team.

 

Would a football team start a running back at wide receiver? I'm sure they could get the job done, but not like a wideout can. Would a home builder build a house without a finisher? I'm sure a framer can fill in, but I guarantee, you'll see the difference. When Mack plays center, we are passing to running backs, we are putting up trim that isn't mitered just right. That may work in high school football and that may work if you're finishing your own basement, but that won't work when you're trying to win a championship in the most competitive league there is. In this league, positions, matter. In this league, a sixteenth of an inch, matters. We have one of the best defenders at one of the most important defensive positions in baseball. He saves hits, he saves runs. When he is playing, there is no uncertainty in the outfield. If the ball is catchable, he'll catch it. If it isn't catchable, he still may catch it. The ratio of what the Sox lose offensively from Mack to Anderson is minuscule compared to what they lose defensively from Anderson to Mack.

 

There is no reason I can possibly think of as to why we downgraded that much defensively in 5 of the last 10 games. Games where every hit matters. Games where Piranhas are trying to nibble you to death and if you give them a bite that should have never been, it just may be the one that kills you. Defense wins games. Defense wins championships. Ozzie said it when he was hired. Ozzie said it when we reached the playoffs. Ozzie said it when we won the World Series. Ozzie, say it again. Please!!

[kapkomet]

That's well put, CC. But I also think there's more to this then people realize. BA will be playing when it matters (more), although I'm in agreement that it's getting to the point it matters EVERY GAME now.

[Wealz]

It's a difficult task to develop players in a pennant race, but that's exactly what Guillen has done with Anderson. The problem is he's the ONLY CF'er on the roster. That isn't Guillen's fault.

[Kalapse]

It's a difficult task to develop players in a pennant race, but that's exactly what Guillen has done with Anderson. The problem is he's the ONLY CF'er on the roster. That isn't Guillen's fault.

You really don't know that. For all you know, KW was ready to pull the trigger and acquire a 4th OF but Ozzie nixed it saying he likes his team the way it is or KW went to Ozzie and asked him what he thought his team was missing and Ozzie like Konerko said this team was good enough.

 

There's just too many factors involved to completely exonerate Ozzie.

[Wealz]

You really don't know that. For all you know, KW was ready to pull the trigger and acquire a 4th OF but Ozzie nixed it saying he likes his team the way it is or KW went to Ozzie and asked him what he thought his team was missing and Ozzie like Konerko said this team was good enough.

 

There's just too many factors involved to completely exonerate Ozzie.

 

The GM is responsible for the make up of the roster.

[jackie hayes]

The GM is responsible for the make up of the roster.

KW said he acquired Alomar because the coaches specifically asked for him. But you think that if the coaches insisted that a cf was needed, he'd tell them to shove it? C'mon...

 

Either the coaches think Mack is a decent cf (ho ho ho), or they don't think cf defense is important. Either way, they're wrong.

[Kalapse]

The GM is responsible for the make up of the roster.

The Sox have preached equality between the GM and Head Coach when it comes to player personel since the day Guillen was hired, this ideal can not be abandoned now that it appears the team is shorthanded.

[Dick Allen]

The GM is responsible for the make up of the roster.

The GM basically said Sandy Alomar Jr. was the coaching staff's idea. I agree the buck stops with KW, but if Ozzie is greatly opposed to a change and won't embrace it, it wouldn't make much sense to make that change.

Edited August 28, 2006 by Dick Allen

[Kalapse]

KW said he acquired Alomar because the coaches specifically asked for him. But you think that if the coaches insisted that a cf was needed, he'd tell them to shove it? C'mon...

 

Either the coaches think Mack is a decent cf (ho ho ho), or they don't think cf defense is important. Either way, they're wrong.

Precisely.

[Dick Allen]

It would be interesting to see and I'm sure impossible to really know how many runs Mack has cost the Sox playing CF. It has to be at least 1 run a game. There usually is at least 1 sometimes 3. Considering David Ortiz accounts for less than 1.5 runs a game, Mack would have to be a Hall of Fame quality offensive player to make up for the defensive drop off. He's not. Its really unfortunate that Mack is taking the brunt of this because it isn't his fault. More unfortunate is the organization's apparent denial that CF defense when BA isn't in the game is not major league quality and could keep the White Sox out of the playoffs.

[Wealz]

The GM basically said Sandy Alomar Jr. was the coaching staff's idea. I agree the buck stops with KW, but if Ozzie is greatly opposed to a change and won't embrace it, it wouldn't make much sense to make that change.

 

Kenny Williams is accountable for the roster and Mackowiak is the ONLY other CF'er.

[jackie hayes]

Kenny Williams is accountable for the roster and Mackowiak is the ONLY other CF'er.

First, you already said that, and second, Mack is NOT a cf, period.

[Balta1701]

It would be interesting to see and I'm sure impossible to really know how many runs Mack has cost the Sox playing CF. It has to be at least 1 run a game. There usually is at least 1 sometimes 3. Considering David Ortiz accounts for less than 1.5 runs a game, Mack would have to be a Hall of Fame quality offensive player to make up for the defensive drop off. He's not. Its really unfortunate that Mack is taking the brunt of this because it isn't his fault. More unfortunate is the organization's apparent denial that CF defense when BA isn't in the game is not major league quality and could keep the White Sox out of the playoffs.

The problem is, it's impossible to actually quantify how many runs Mack has given up. I'll give you a prime example...Javier Vazquez's last start against the Orioles. There were 2 balls that Mack short-hopped that Anderson would have had easily. One of them led directly to a run scoring - the ball falling turned it into an RBI single. But the other one didn't lead directly to a run scoring - Vazquez pitched over it.

 

But then, what happened? Vazquez happened, he hit the 6th inning and imploded again. But here's my question...what happens if both of those balls are caught? Well, Vazquez goes into the 6th inning with 1 less run on the board, has more flexibility, and has thrown probably 15 fewer pitches. So he's fresher, he has more confidence, and he doesn't have to make as many perfect pitches. Who's to say that he doesn't have more success in the 6th inning if Brian catches those balls earlier in the game?

[Dick Allen]

Kenny Williams is accountable for the roster and Mackowiak is the ONLY other CF'er.

You're stretching when you say Mack is a CF. Podsednik has played a lot of CF, in fact, I think I would play Pods in CF and Mack in LF if Ozzie insisted they both play together. Mack at least is a good LF, much better than Pods. Pods may not be good in CF, but its hard to imagine he would be any worse than Mack.

[Kalapse]

You're stretching when you say Mack is a CF. Podsednik has played a lot of CF, in fact, I think I would play Pods in CF and Mack in LF if Ozzie insisted they both play together. Mack at least is a good LF, much better than Pods. Pods may not be good in CF, but its hard to imagine he would be any worse than Mack.

Take it from someone who has seen Podsednik play a lot a CF, Scott is MUCH worse than Mackowiak in center and that is saying something. Just think of how bad Podsednik is in LF, now double the amount of ground he has to cover and imagine just how far Scott would have to throw from the right center field gap just to hit the cutoffman.

[Wealz]

Yes he is. He is not accountable on how much the manager plays Mackowiak. Im sure when Williams acquired Mack, he did not envision a platoon in CF. If Mack was in a center maybe once a week, there is no problem(at least for me)

 

When Mack is getting more time than Anderson, that is when something is wrong.

 

If Mackowiak isn't good enough to play 2 or 3 times a week in center, he isn't good enough to play center at all. Kenny Williams dealt Guillen this hand.

[fathom]

If Mackowiak isn't good enough to play 2 or 3 times a week in center, he isn't good enough to play center at all. Kenny Williams dealt Guillen this hand.

 

I can't believe that you think Ozzie has no say about who is, and isn't, on this team.

[Wealz]

I can't believe that you think Ozzie has no say about who is, and isn't, on this team.

 

He probably does have a say, but he isn't accountable for who is on the team. Kenny Williams must think the pros of Mackowiak playing center outweigh the cons or he would have found someone else to share time with Anderson.

[Kalapse]

He probably does have a say, but he isn't accountable for who is on the team. Kenny Williams must think the pros of Mackowiak playing center outweigh the cons or he would have found someone else to share time with Anderson.

Why does anyone need to share time with Anderson? Perhaps Williams feels Anderson is the type of player who can play everyday for you and Mackowiak is capable of playing CF once a week, I certainly believe this to be true.

[fathom]

He probably does have a say, but he isn't accountable for who is on the team. Kenny Williams must think the pros of Mackowiak playing center outweigh the cons or he would have found someone else to share time with Anderson.

 

I think it has more to do with Ozzie/KW not wanting to have to get rid of someone like Ozuna or Gload.