This team needs to make some changes...

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

And the team's ERA is higher because OZZIE decided not to let McCarthy start.

 

So you looked into your crystal ball and saw BMac with a 14-2 record and 1.00 ERA ? I havent done the math but thats probably about what it would take for the ERA of the whole staff to be .50 lower and have the whole team at 85 wins. And yes I know you're not the one who stated the .50 ERA/85 wins but you did say if MCarthy was starting the team ERA would be lower. If that crystal ball is still working can you give me some California lottery winning numbers ?

Edited August 29, 2006 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

He looked much more decisive and confident. The first steal was all him, as he had a great jump (I'm still confused at the slide he attempted). The second steal was more due to a bad throw by the catcher. Redmond was the catcher, and the best thing you can say about his arm is that he's a good hitter. However, I don't care who is behind the plate. It's nice to see Pods try to get some swagger back.

 

Watching the replays I think they would have still had to get a picture perfect tag to get Pods on the second attempt. It looked like it would have been really close if they throw had been there. But I definately agree something looked different. That second bunt he laid down was absolutely perfect. It was right onto the dirt of the 3rd base line about half way up the line, with perfect spin and everything. The steal attempts just looked like he KNEW when Silva was going home, and took off for second base.

 

It could have been a fluke, but sometimes you can just see a light go on in a players head, and feel they have a hot streak coming. I got that feeling with the way Pods went about his business, and I was curious if anyone else saw what I did?

 

Jas, I think it's Brandon's "professional" attitude that rubs Oz the wrong way. Mike, please chime in with your thoughts also.

 

That's the same attitude and feeling I got. Brandon just isn't a real loose guy from what I can tell (granted I am not in the clubhouse or anything so I am not preaching this as gospel). The guy is very ritualistic, and likes to keep the same routine, as it keeps him in a mental comfort zone. Something like this is 180 degrees from the way Ozzie is, and I don't know if this is the problem, if there is a real personality conflict, or for some reason, Ozzie just doesn't believe Brandon is nearly as talented as everyone else does, or what. Heck it could even be something as petty as Ozzie is sick of hearing about how great Brandon is going to be, and that is why he refuses to use him more often, I have no idea, but something is there in my eyes.

 

Think about it. Ozzie goes out of his way to test his players and to try them in just about every possible situation, to see if they can contribute in other ways, and at other times. By the time his teams get to September, he knows where he can trust his guys, and where he can't. For example, I know it has pissed everyone off all year long, but Ozzie knows that he can't trust Vazquez in the 6th and later. Instead of pulling a Manuel and jerking the guy out right away everytime, he tested him to see if he could handle it. Now if it gets to the point where the game is on the line, he doesn't have to wonder... he knows. Anyways, Ozzie never really did this with Brandon this year. He really used him in vanilla situations all year long, and never really threw him to the fire, the way he did with guys like Montero, Logan, Riske, Cotts, etc. If anyone can answer "why", I'd love to hear it.

 

 

You know that I love Paulie, my favorite player in baseball. Well aside from that MVP candidate we had last year, I think his name was....WILLIE HARRIS

 

MVP! MVP! MVP! MVP!

[Steff]

That's the same attitude and feeling I got. Brandon just isn't a real loose guy from what I can tell (granted I am not in the clubhouse or anything so I am not preaching this as gospel). The guy is very ritualistic, and likes to keep the same routine, as it keeps him in a mental comfort zone. Something like this is 180 degrees from the way Ozzie is, and I don't know if this is the problem, if there is a real personality conflict, or for some reason, Ozzie just doesn't believe Brandon is nearly as talented as everyone else does, or what. Heck it could even be something as petty as Ozzie is sick of hearing about how great Brandon is going to be, and that is why he refuses to use him more often, I have no idea, but something is there in my eyes.

 

Think about it. Ozzie goes out of his way to test his players and to try them in just about every possible situation, to see if they can contribute in other ways, and at other times. By the time his teams get to September, he knows where he can trust his guys, and where he can't. For example, I know it has pissed everyone off all year long, but Ozzie knows that he can't trust Vazquez in the 6th and later. Instead of pulling a Manuel and jerking the guy out right away everytime, he tested him to see if he could handle it. Now if it gets to the point where the game is on the line, he doesn't have to wonder... he knows. Anyways, Ozzie never really did this with Brandon this year. He really used him in vanilla situations all year long, and never really threw him to the fire, the way he did with guys like Montero, Logan, Riske, Cotts, etc. If anyone can answer "why", I'd love to hear it.

 

From everything we know about Brandon (from him and from rumors) we've yet to hear anything bad from the clubhouse - correct me if I am wrong and you've heard something different - so the only conclusion I have is that he's just too "quiet" for Oz. It's silly, but I do think it's very plausable. Carlos also wasn't part of that gang and you see how fast he was chastized and shipped (though the move was a logical fit).

[southsider2k5]

From everything we know about Brandon (from him and from rumors) we've yet to hear anything bad from the clubhouse - correct me if I am wrong and you've heard something different - so the only conclusion I have is that he's just too "quiet" for Oz. It's silly, but I do think it's very plausable. Carlos also wasn't part of that gang and you see how fast he was chastized and shipped (though the move was a logical fit).

 

Brandon is definately a quiet kid from what I have seen. He seems like a really good kid who keeps his nose clean, stays out of trouble, and has an almost 24/7 focus on baseball and its knowledge. In other words he is Ozzie's antithisis.

[Dick Allen]

Brandon is definately a quiet kid from what I have seen. He seems like a really good kid who keeps his nose clean, stays out of trouble, and has an almost 24/7 focus on baseball and its knowledge. In other words he is Ozzie's antithisis.

Quiet players seem to find their way into Ozzie's doghouse it appears. Marte was/is very quiet and flourished under a calm guy in Manuel, but didn't click with Ozzie, and Ozzie and Magglio seemed to have some problems and Magglio also is quiet. Of course Carlos Lee wasn't quiet, and Ozzie wasn't a fan. It just seems if your personality is more reserved, the greater the chance you will be less comfortable with Ozzie than if you are the opposite. There obviously is something that doesn't seem to add up here, as Ozzie doesn't seem to have the same regard for McCarthy as most fans and the rest of the Sox organization. I wonder if it will become a huge problem down the road. Not giving McCarthy every opportunity to succeed may lead to a big rift at some point.

[WCSox]

So we hate Ozzie now?

 

No kidding. This is just ridiculous.

 

As for B-Mac, he's not conditioned to throw more than 80 pitches at this point. And with the way that the starters have been performing, it would be wise to have one really good long-relief option in the 'pen. It's almost a given that somebody will need to relieve Vazquez and Freddy in the 6th inning of their starts. If B-Mac is moved out of the 'pen, that puts a much heavier workload on MacDougal, Cotts, Riske, and Thornton. Moving Vazquez to the 'pen would be a disaster, IMO. If he lacks the confidence to throw strikes after he gets ahead of hitters as a starter, he'll be even worse after a demotion. It's a bad situation, but unless Vazquez or Freddy are consistently getting shelled over the first four or five innings of their starts, I'd keep the status quo.

 

On the other hand, playing Mackowiak in CF is a different story...

 

 

There obviously is something that doesn't seem to add up here, as Ozzie doesn't seem to have the same regard for McCarthy as most fans and the rest of the Sox organization. I wonder if it will become a huge problem down the road. Not giving McCarthy every opportunity to succeed may lead to a big rift at some point.

 

I could be wrong about this, but it might have more to do with demoting Freddy or Javy than Ozzie not liking B-Mac.

[southsider2k5]

I could be wrong about this, but it might have more to do with demoting Freddy or Javy than Ozzie not liking B-Mac.

 

I can understand Brandon not being in the starting rotation. Besides demoting someone, you would be asking a veteran who has never been in the pen, to learn this on about Labor Day. It doesn't make any sense. I think our contention is that Brandon hasn't been challenged at all in the pen. Montero got thrown out there in the 8th inning of close games. Boone Logan got to face Travis Hafner twice. Thornton got thrown into every possible pressure situation before he showed he had broken through... etc etc. What big situations has Brandon McCarthy been tested in? None.

[WCSox]

I can understand Brandon not being in the starting rotation. Besides demoting someone, you would be asking a veteran who has never been in the pen, to learn this on about Labor Day. It doesn't make any sense. I think our contention is that Brandon hasn't been challenged at all in the pen. Montero got thrown out there in the 8th inning of close games. Boone Logan got to face Travis Hafner twice. Thornton got thrown into every possible pressure situation before he showed he had broken through... etc etc. What big situations has Brandon McCarthy been tested in? None.

 

I see your point. The only possible explanation for those moves are that Montero and Thornton are both a lot older than B-Mac and have more experience. Thornton and Logan both came in to get out a tough left-handeder, a situation that McCarthy is obviously not going to be in. One could argue that Ozzie is just being extra-careful in bringing B-Mac along, although I'm not sure how strong of an argument it would be.

 

I don't really see how B-Mac's quiet demeanor could "clash" with Ozzie, given guys like Paulie, Thome, and Garland aren't exactly hyperactive loud-mouths. But other than the Sox being extra-careful with B-Mac, I can't offer an alternative explanation.

[greg775]

I just read this post. I can't believe how tired the fire Oz stuff has become.

My god, he won the World Series last year, people.

Do you realize how insane the idea of firing Ozzie is?

That said ... if he is miserable here I hope he quits and takes a job with a team

he cares less about.

There is no doubt nobody wants the White Sox to win more than Ozzie.

[tealeafreaderii]

on BMacs myspace it says he likes Ann Coulter...

 

with that being the case... I bet BMac hates everything Ozzie stands for (free love, communism).... Ozzie can probably smell the hate on him and because of that... won't give him his shot.

 

 

/green /green

 

BTW, I'm firmly in Ozzie's, Pod's, and Uribe's corner.

Edited August 30, 2006 by tealeafreaderii

[qwerty]

I see your point. The only possible explanation for those moves are that Montero and Thornton are both a lot older than B-Mac and have more experience. Thornton and Logan both came in to get out a tough left-handeder, a situation that McCarthy is obviously not going to be in. One could argue that Ozzie is just being extra-careful in bringing B-Mac along, although I'm not sure how strong of an argument it would be.

 

I don't really see how B-Mac's quiet demeanor could "clash" with Ozzie, given guys like Paulie, Thome, and Garland aren't exactly hyperactive loud-mouths. But other than the Sox being extra-careful with B-Mac, I can't offer an alternative explanation.

 

Montero is older sure... more experienced? No. Mccarthy already had a three game stretch that he gave up just two runs in 22.1 innings pitched... against texas, boston, and the angels last year... showing he is more than capable in any situation. Why is it obvious that mccarthy cannot come in to face a tough left hander? Left handers .181 average and .587 ops against tell me differently. There is no reason he couldn't come in to face that lefty and then go on to pitch another inning... even if needed or he was in a rhythm.

 

I just read this post. I can't believe how tired the fire Oz stuff has become.

My god, he won the World Series last year, people.

Do you realize how insane the idea of firing Ozzie is?

That said ... if he is miserable here I hope he quits and takes a job with a team

he cares less about.

There is no doubt nobody wants the White Sox to win more than Ozzie.

 

He won a world series? Ozzie did nothing last year that was rather amazing as a manager other than make bone headed mistakes in game and out. Constant misuse of the bullpen and line-up. Very limited injuries and the pitching was amazing. Sure... i guess you can say he rested his line-up? Which made them go on to a world series victory? Probally was not what his starting pitching did...

 

I just ask for my manager to put me in a position to win every game... and i do not think with a straigh face anyone can say he does.

[southsider2k5]

Pods with another nice night, really keyed both of the first two innings. He was on base 3 times, and stole a base, looking good again doing it.

[BearSox]

Okay, Uribe needs to be benched. While his defense might be good, it is also very questionable at times, and his offense is just killing any rally we get. Pods needs to be benched for about a week to get his head out of his ass. And Thome needs to sit for about a week to get back to 100%, which he is obviously not healthy yet. Then, we need to get Ozuna, Mackowaik, Gload, and Cintron in regularly, and giving Sweeney a start here or there to see what he can do.

 

I'll put it this way, Ozzie needs to start panicing a bit. he is playing it all cool and calm, and sticking with his boys. But him doing that is really hurting us. Him not putting the players in the best position to succeed is really hurting this team, and really pissing me off.

 

hmm, maybe Jim is half way alright after all.

[fathom]

The biggest chance this team needs to make is with their manager. His recent quotes illustrate that he has no clue how to manage this particular personnel.

[BobDylan]

I think the Uribe bashing posts need to stop. I think the offense bashing posts need to stop.

 

I think all the blame needs to go on the starting 5.

 

Okay, Uribe needs to be benched. While his defense might be good, it is also very questionable at times, and his offense is just killing any rally we get. Pods needs to be benched for about a week to get his head out of his ass. And Thome needs to sit for about a week to get back to 100%, which he is obviously not healthy yet. Then, we need to get Ozuna, Mackowaik, Gload, and Cintron in regularly, and giving Sweeney a start here or there to see what he can do.

 

I'll put it this way, Ozzie needs to start panicing a bit. he is playing it all cool and calm, and sticking with his boys. But him doing that is really hurting us. Him not putting the players in the best position to succeed is really hurting this team, and really pissing me off.

 

hmm, maybe Jim is half way alright after all.

 

So you'd bench Uribe, arguably the best defender on the team (and arguably the best defensive SS in the game) and bench Podsednik, arguably the worst hitter on the team as well as defender (and arguably the worst defensive LF in the league) for only a week?

 

It doesn't seem very smart to weaken your defense up the middle ESPECIALLY at SS, the most important and hardest position to play on the field (other than maybe catcher) for guys that should be utilized in other places. Ozuna should take Pods time in LF, that's where the platoon needs to happen. As far as Cintron? The play he showed while Uribe was hurt is more than sufficient evidence as why he should be used in the field in VERY limited time. He has no range, no arm and isn't much of an upgrade at the plate.

 

And again, for f*** sake, the problem ISN'T the offense. It's giving up 7 mother f***ing runs day in and day out. Don't point the finger at Uribe. Don't point it at Thome, Uribe, Konerko, Dye, Anderson, or even Podsednik (and then some). Point it at the underachieving pitching staff. That means Jon Garland, Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras and Javier Vazquez. Aside from Garland, not any single one of them has stepped up ONCE this entire year.

 

I know we're all frustrated. I know they are a better team than this. But good lord, they are hitting .285 as a team. And though they don't get all the big hits (name me on team that has gotten EVERY big hit), it's only magnified because the Sox pitching staff has the guts of a wet noodle.

 

Uribe's defense is not that good. Sorry.

 

That should be in green. Seriously.

 

And the team's ERA is higher because OZZIE decided not to let McCarthy start.

 

McCarthy is not a savior. He has no experience under his belt and he, himself cannot bring the team ERA down a full run, let alone a half a run or a quarter of a run.

[Kalapse]

That should be in green. Seriously.

McCarthy is not a savior. He has no experience under his belt and he, himself cannot bring the team ERA down a full run, let alone a half a run or a quarter of a run.

So his 42.2 IP and 1.69 ERA over the final month or so of the season last year does not count as experience? He may not be a savior but to say he has no experience just is not true seeing how he was the Sox' best SP while they were sucking down the stretch last year.

[BobDylan]

So his 42.2 IP and 1.69 ERA over the final month or so of the season last year does not count as experience? He may not be a savior but to say he has no experience just is not true seeing how he was the Sox' best SP while they were sucking down the stretch last year.

 

Does it equate to post-season and big game experience? That's where the Sox stand now. I like McCarthy, but people around here treat him like Mark Prior.

[BearSox]

I think the Uribe bashing posts need to stop. I think the offense bashing posts need to stop.

 

I think all the blame needs to go on the starting 5.

So you'd bench Uribe, arguably the best defender on the team (and arguably the best defensive SS in the game) and bench Podsednik, arguably the worst hitter on the team as well as defender (and arguably the worst defensive LF in the league) for only a week?

 

It doesn't seem very smart to weaken your defense up the middle ESPECIALLY at SS, the most important and hardest position to play on the field (other than maybe catcher) for guys that should be utilized in other places. Ozuna should take Pods time in LF, that's where the platoon needs to happen. As far as Cintron? The play he showed while Uribe was hurt is more than sufficient evidence as why he should be used in the field in VERY limited time. He has no range, no arm and isn't much of an upgrade at the plate.

 

And again, for f*** sake, the problem ISN'T the offense. It's giving up 7 mother f***ing runs day in and day out. Don't point the finger at Uribe. Don't point it at Thome, Uribe, Konerko, Dye, Anderson, or even Podsednik (and then some). Point it at the underachieving pitching staff. That means Jon Garland, Mark Buehrle, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras and Javier Vazquez. Aside from Garland, not any single one of them has stepped up ONCE this entire year.

 

I know we're all frustrated. I know they are a better team than this. But good lord, they are hitting .285 as a team. And though they don't get all the big hits (name me on team that has gotten EVERY big hit), it's only magnified because the Sox pitching staff has the guts of a wet noodle.

That should be in green. Seriously.

Just because Juan has a strong arm makes him a good fielder? He has 11 errors this season, and you can even make a case for more with some of the balls he thrown away on ordinary DP's, and some of the other decisions he has made. And he has played lazy sloppy defense at times.

 

Plus, he offense is horrible. He is even worse then Brian Anderson was earlier this season. At least Anderson was able to take a walk.

 

And when you say offense isn't a problem, you are dead wrong. Since the all-star break, how many rpg has this team been averaging? I bet it is less then 5, which is pretty bad. 3 runs and reling on the long ball isn't going to win you many games, no matter how bad the pitching is.

[shoota]

Does it equate to post-season and big game experience? That's where the Sox stand now. I like McCarthy, but people around here treat him like Mark Prior.

 

McCarthy doesn't have to be savior or as good as Mark Prior. He only needs to pitch better than one of Freddy G or Javier Vazquez for the team to benefit.

[BobDylan]

McCarthy doesn't have to be savior or as good as Mark Prior. He only needs to pitch better than one of Freddy G or Javier Vazquez for the team to benefit.

 

I agree. But that's not the way some people make it sound.

[BobDylan]

Just because Juan has a strong arm makes him a good fielder? He has 11 errors this season, and you can even make a case for more with some of the balls he thrown away on ordinary DP's, and some of the other decisions he has made. And he has played lazy sloppy defense at times.

 

Plus, he offense is horrible. He is even worse then Brian Anderson was earlier this season. At least Anderson was able to take a walk.

 

And when you say offense isn't a problem, you are dead wrong. Since the all-star break, how many rpg has this team been averaging? I bet it is less then 5, which is pretty bad. 3 runs and reling on the long ball isn't going to win you many games, no matter how bad the pitching is.

 

Worse at the plate than BA was earlier in the year? Do you watch the games or just rely on ESPN.com's Gamecast?

 

So because McCarthy has no playoff experience , he shouldn't have been in a rotation for this year, at all?

And I would count those games down the stretch against Boston and Texas "Big Games" but what do I know...

 

Jesus, I argue what one person says and don't spell it out for all the other people that might not be willing to take things in context. I've never said McCarthy would not be an upgrade. I just don't think he's the "answer" everyone makes him out to be. The "answer" frankly, is an ACE.

[Kalapse]

Worse at the plate than BA was earlier in the year? Do you watch the games or just rely on ESPN.com's Gamecast?

Jesus, I argue what one person says and don't spell it out for all the other people that might not be willing to take things in context. I've never said McCarthy would not be an upgrade. I just don't think he's the "answer" everyone makes him out to be. The "answer" frankly, is an ACE.

I'm still confused as to how the games last September don't count as big game experience.

[BearSox]

Worse at the plate than BA was earlier in the year? Do you watch the games or just rely on ESPN.com's Gamecast?

No, I watch the games. Anderson was able to take a walk when he was struggling and he put the bat on the ball. All Uribe does is strike out and popout.

[Kalapse]

Just because Juan has a strong arm makes him a good fielder? He has 11 errors this season, and you can even make a case for more with some of the balls he thrown away on ordinary DP's, and some of the other decisions he has made. And he has played lazy sloppy defense at times.

 

Plus, he offense is horrible. He is even worse then Brian Anderson was earlier this season. At least Anderson was able to take a walk.

 

And when you say offense isn't a problem, you are dead wrong. Since the all-star break, how many rpg has this team been averaging? I bet it is less then 5, which is pretty bad. 3 runs and reling on the long ball isn't going to win you many games, no matter how bad the pitching is.

The Sox have averaged 4.92 runs per game since the break which is not all that bad it'd be good for the 4th best in the AL in '05. Jim Thome has been hurt for a good portion of the second half which does not help the offense one bit and would go a long way towards dropping the runs per game .7.

[BobDylan]

I'm still confused as to how the games last September don't count as big game experience.

 

On Sept. 5th, 2005 Brandon McCarthy pitched against Boston. At the time the Sox were 8.5 games ahead of Cleveland. While in the grand scheme of things it might've been an important game, but with a comfy 8.5 game lead, I can hardly see that as a "big game".

 

Check that, they were 9.5 ahead.

 

EDIT 2:

 

When things actually got hot, McCarthy recroded one loss and one no decision in a loss in late September against pretty average teams (Minnesota, Detroit)

Edited September 3, 2006 by BobDylan