Gene Honda Civic Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Freddy Garcia has allowed less than 3 runs to an AL opponent only three times this season, and just once since May 10th. That's once in 17 starts. Over that same time span, he's allowed 5 or more runs 11 times. Less than 3: 1 time; 5 or more: 11 times! The White Sox record with Javier Vazquez on the mound is 13-13. The White Sox record with Jose Contreras on the mound? 13-13, including 2-10 in the last 12. QUOTE(BobDylan @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 05:21 PM) When things actually got hot, McCarthy recroded one loss and one no decision in a loss in late September against pretty average teams (Minnesota, Detroit) Ah yes, 3 runs or less in both starts. 4 runs in 14.1 innings. The kid can't hack it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE(BobDylan @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 05:21 PM) On Sept. 5th, 2005 Brandon McCarthy pitched against Boston. At the time the Sox were 8.5 games ahead of Cleveland. While in the grand scheme of things it might've been an important game, but with a comfy 8.5 game lead, I can hardly see that as a "big game". Check that, they were 9.5 ahead. EDIT 2: When things actually got hot, McCarthy recroded one loss and one no decision in a loss in late September against pretty average teams (Minnesota, Detroit) Yeah and those outings against Minnesota and Detroit were pretty horrid too. The no decision was a amazing duel at the Cell between Brandon McCarthy and the best pitcher in baseball over the past 5 years, Johan Santana. Brandon went 8 innings allowing 4 hits and 1 run the loss to the Tigers he went 6 1/3 and allowed 3R the Sox scored a grand total of 3 runs for him in those two outings combined, just another reason why a pitcher's W/L record means nothing. You're telling me you wouldn't take either of those 2 lines from any of the Sox current pitchers tomorrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 10:34 PM) Freddy Garcia has allowed less than 3 runs to an AL opponent only three times this season, and just once since May 10th. That's once in 17 starts. Over that same time span, he's allowed 5 or more runs 11 times. Less than 3: 1 time; 5 or more: 11 times! The White Sox record with Javier Vazquez on the mound is 13-13. The White Sox record with Jose Contreras on the mound? 13-13, including 2-10 in the last 12. Ah yes, 3 runs or less in both starts. 4 runs in 14.1 innings. The kid can't hack it. Wasn't that McCarthy game a pitcher's duel against Santana in which McCarthy only gave up one run on a Jones homer? I am ok with someone saying that they don't want McCarthy in the rotation now. However, anyone that says he wasn't clutch for the Sox last season is just making up s*** to help their argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 05:35 PM) Yeah and those outings against Minnesota and Detroit were pretty horrid too. The no decision was a amazing duel at the Cell between Brandon McCarthy and the best pitcher in baseball over the past 5 years, Johan Santana. Brandon went 8 innings allowing 4 hits and 1 run the loss to the Tigers he went 6 1/3 and allowed 3R the Sox scored a grand total of 3 runs for him in those two outings combined, just another reason why a pitcher's W/L record means nothing. You're telling me you wouldn't take either of those 2 lines from any of the Sox current pitchers tomorrow? I would, but Johan Santana, a pitcher who most would obviously note as a "Big Game Pitcher" didn't lose to Brandon McCarthy, who isn't a "Big Game Pitcher". By the way, nice job changing the subject there, eh? Edited September 3, 2006 by BobDylan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 10:34 PM) Freddy Garcia has allowed less than 3 runs to an AL opponent only three times this season, and just once since May 10th. That's once in 17 starts. Over that same time span, he's allowed 5 or more runs 11 times. Less than 3: 1 time; 5 or more: 11 times! The White Sox record with Javier Vazquez on the mound is 13-13. The White Sox record with Jose Contreras on the mound? 13-13, including 2-10 in the last 12. Ah yes, 3 runs or less in both starts. 4 runs in 14.1 innings. The kid can't hack it. BTW, thanks for the great stats today. It's amazing how much these guys are underachieving. Garcia faces the Indians next, and they've owned him this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE(BobDylan @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 05:37 PM) I would, but Johan Santana, a pitcher who most would obviously note as a "Big Game Pitcher" didn't lose to Brandon McCarthy, who isn't a "Big Game Pitcher". Haha, McCarthy goes 8 innings and allows 1 run but does not get the win so he's not a "big game pitcher". That's some nice logic. Funny what 1 run of support does for a pitcher, McCarthy gets 1 run from the offense in his outing Vs the Twins in September and gets a N/D yet Freddy puts up the exact same line in game 4 of the world series and gets 2 runs and gets the win earning him the "big game pitcher" tag. Terrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 05:41 PM) Haha, McCarthy goes 8 innings and allows 1 run but does not get the win so he's not a "big game pitcher". That's some nice logic. Funny what 1 run of support does for a pitcher, McCarthy gets 1 run from the offense in his outing Vs the Twins in September and gets a N/D yet Freddy puts up the exact same line in game 4 of the world series and gets 2 runs and gets the win earning him the "big game pitcher" tag. Terrific. It's the win verses the loss that gets a pitcher that tag. You can't say McCarthy's outing was better than Garcia's because no baseball game is the same. That's logic. (Not to mention one game was in the holyest of holy's...THE WORLD f***ING SERIES) Besides, Guillen went with what many have dubbed as a big game pitcher when the playoffs came around and left McCarthy at home. Orlando Hernandez. His numbers didn't exactly look good coming into the playoffs either. And many questioned the decision to boot. Yet, he pitched perhaps the most impressive inning in playoff history. Edited September 3, 2006 by BobDylan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 QUOTE(BobDylan @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 05:43 PM) It's the win verses the loss that gets a pitcher that tag. You can't say McCarthy's outing was better than Garcia's because no baseball game is the same. That's logic. That makes sense, you penalize the pitcher because his offense sucks. I assume Roger Clemens had a s*** year last year because he was only 5 games over .500. If Dye does not come through with a single up the middle in the top of the 9th in game 4 of the WS, Freddy gets a N/D. Judging a pitcher strickly by whether he gets the win or not is what gets GMs fired and puts teams in holes personel wise that they can not recover from. It's cool you can have all the Russ Ortiz' you want I mean he may give up 6 runs a game but hey he gets the win and that's all that matters therefore he must be a good pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 (edited) It's pointless to compare BMac to the Garcia of 2005 because Garcia is a much worse pitcher in 2006--the year in which people have been stating BMac should have been starting over Garcia. If Garcia performed in 2006 like he did in 2005, nobody would be suggesting BMac start in place of him. Edited September 3, 2006 by shoota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 3, 2006 -> 05:48 PM) That makes sense, you penalize the pitcher because his offense sucks. I assume Roger Clemens had a s*** year last year because he was only 5 games over .500. If Dye does not come through with a single up the middle in the top of the 9th in game 4 of the WS, Freddy gets a N/D. Judging a pitcher strickly by whether he gets the win or not is what gets GMs fired and puts teams in holes personel wise that they can not recover from. It's cool you can have all the Russ Ortiz' you want I mean he may give up 6 runs a game but hey he gets the win and that's all that matters therefore he must be a good pitcher. What do you constitute a big game pitcher as? One who keeps his team in the game or one who wins when it counts the most? There are plenty who can keep a team in the game. There are very few who can win at will. Obviously there aren't any that have won every single big game, but if you ask me who I'd rather have on the hill last season come 2005's game 4 of the World Series and my choices are Brandon McCarthy and Freddy Garcia...(do I need to answer?) 2 good games in low pressure situations do not make a pitcher a big game pitcher, let alone one you want out there when the team simply can't afford to lose. Maybe you replied before I made the edit, but again, Orlando Hernandez. Plus I'll state it again: I have not once said that I don't think McCarthy is an upgrade to the rotation this season. But for the love of god, he's not a big game pitcher and he's not going to save the season. Edited September 3, 2006 by BobDylan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Bottom line, these guys need to play better. It isn't Ozzie's or Kenny's fault. Each of these guys has the potential to play better. Dreaming of trades that are one sided, is only fooling yourself. Yes, you can separate wins from performance, but bottom line, some guys are winners. That's the intangible that separates some guys from AAAA and MLB. Pressure in pitching comes from pitching to win, not pitching for stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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