Tigers call up #1 pick

[Hangar18]

The Tigers called up their #1 pick Andrew Miller, a lefty pitcher. I believe he only pitched 5 innings!

Very cub-like move, but I guess the Tigers are very thin pitching wise.

[Kalapse]

Well, you're basically wrong on both fronts. Not really sure why you mentioned the Cubs, as far as I know they've never signed a draft pick with a clause in his contract that he must be called up by September after being drafted earlier in the season.

 

It has nothing to do with being thin pitching wise, they HAVE to call him up.

[Hangar18]

Well, you're basically wrong on both fronts. Not really sure why you mentioned the Cubs, as far as I know they've never signed a draft pick with a clause in his contract that he must be called up by September after being drafted earlier in the season.

 

I didnt know he signed a deal like that. It sounded like the Tigers were rushing him here .....

[southsider2k5]

Well, you're basically wrong on both fronts. Not really sure why you mentioned the Cubs, as far as I know they've never signed a draft pick with a clause in his contract that he must be called up by September after being drafted earlier in the season.

 

It has nothing to do with being thin pitching wise, they HAVE to call him up.

 

 

Try doing a little research next time...

[witesoxfan]

I didnt know he signed a deal like that. It sounded like the Tigers were rushing him here .....

 

Which is why you should read more into these topics before making such bold accusations.

[Steff]

 

Try doing a little research next time...

 

 

 

[Hangar18]

Which is why you should read more into these topics before making such bold accusations.

 

 

Hmmmm. I look in the Tribune today and this is what the blurb says:

 

" The Tigers called up lefthanded pitcher Andrew Miller from ClassA Lakeland, where he

struck out nine in five innings.........The 21 year old was ....first round pick in the June draft after going

13-2 ....at North Carolina."

 

Nowhere does it mention his contract status, his having signed a special deal, nor that he must be called up or else. I think it was safe for me to assume 5 innings of work might be rushing the guy.

[SoxPride56]

Hmmmm. I look in the Tribune today and this is what the blurb says:

 

" The Tigers called up lefthanded pitcher Andrew Miller from ClassA Lakeland, where he

struck out nine in five innings.........The 21 year old was ....first round pick in the June draft after going

13-2 ....at North Carolina."

 

Nowhere does it mention his contract status, his having signed a special deal, nor that he must be called up or else. I think it was safe for me to assume 5 innings of work might be rushing the guy.

You know what they say when you "assume"

[Bonderman38]

It was a verbal agreement, not actually written in his contract.

 

He did well today.

[witesoxfan]

Hmmmm. I look in the Tribune today and this is what the blurb says:

 

" The Tigers called up lefthanded pitcher Andrew Miller from ClassA Lakeland, where he

struck out nine in five innings.........The 21 year old was ....first round pick in the June draft after going

13-2 ....at North Carolina."

 

Nowhere does it mention his contract status, his having signed a special deal, nor that he must be called up or else. I think it was safe for me to assume 5 innings of work might be rushing the guy.

 

So that gives you the right to compare a good organization like the Tigers to a horses*** organization like the Cubs?

[GoodAsGould]

So that gives you the right to compare a good organization like the Tigers to a horses*** organization like the Cubs?

 

Well they havent had a winning season since when early 90's? You know the same team that offered Juan Gonzalez that huge deal and grossly overpaid for Magglio. So I wouldnt exactly call them a good organization yet but they are definitely getting there. If they prove this season wasnt a fluke and do it again next season that will help a bunch.

[Bonderman38]

Well they havent had a winning season since when early 90's? You know the same team that offered Juan Gonzalez that huge deal and grossly overpaid for Magglio. So I wouldnt exactly call them a good organization yet but they are definitely getting there. If they prove this season wasnt a fluke and do it again next season that will help a bunch.

 

Most of that was the Randy Smith era, who was horrible!

 

With Dave Dombrowski at the helm now, they are now a good organization.

[witesoxfan]

Most of that was the Randy Smith era, who was horrible!

 

With Dave Dombrowski at the helm now, they are now a good organization.

 

agreed

 

They have been trying to win. Stockpiling talent, be it through trades, free agent signings, waiver wire, or just being bad enough to have great draft positions. They also hired a hometown guy to bring a little energy to the team and the city. They found out later that he was just a straight up horrible manager.

 

The Cubs add a couple overpaid relievers to a team with much more pressing needs, give up 2-3 good arms for Juan Pierre who was mediocre as hell the year before, and keep the same horrible manager they've had since 2003. They regressed in 2004 and 2005, and are bad again this year. He's ruined their young arms, and yet they keep him. They lie about injuries. They are always "interested" in big name players in free agency and trades, yet always settle for worse. They charge fans to watch games from the roof of a neighboring building. Need I go on?

[GoodAsGould]

With a couple of good moves the Cubs might be pretty formidable next season... but 2 things have to happen. Derek Lee has to be healthy and Mark Prior has to be able to come back for good. I have a little more faith in Prior returning than I do with Wood.

[Jordan4life_2007]

With a couple of good moves the Cubs might be pretty formidable next season... but 2 things have to happen. Derek Lee has to be healthy and Mark Prior has to be able to come back for good. I have a little more faith in Prior returning than I do with Wood.

 

A couple of good moves? Pretty formidable?

[GoodAsGould]

A couple of good moves? Pretty formidable?

 

Well Ive heard them connected to some big names coming in f/a. So if they sign like one of Clee or Soriano their offense will be immensly better assuming they keep A-Ram too. Their bullpen is decent with Howry, Eyre, and Dempster to end the game. In the rotation Im thinking Mark Prior and Carlos Zambrano will both be good. Rich Hill in my opinion is a decent pitcher who will do much better without Dusty messing him up. Than they can sign one of the lesser SP f/as(Kip Wells, Vincente Padilla, etc.) and than one of thsoe many SP prospects like Mateo or Guzman to fill it up.

 

 

They wont be great but with an offense supporting Aramis Ramirez, Soriano/Lee, Derek lee, Michael Barrett, and Jaque Jones surrounded by some of their younger prospects Cedeno/Pie they will be more than formidable.

 

My ideal Cubs team if I was the GM

 

2B:Alphonso Soriano

SS: Cezar Izturis

1B: Derek Lee

3B: Aramis Ramirez

LF: Matt Murton

C: Michael Barret

RF: Jaque Jones

CF: Felix Pie

SP: ?

 

SP: Carlos Zambrano, Mark Prior, Rich Hill, (Marshall, Mateo, Guzman, Marmol) whoevr wins in ST, and than FA(Kip Wells, Padilla, etc.)

 

Im a big fan of some of the Cubs players in terms of talent and everything... Really like Izturis, Dlee, Murton, and Pie. Also Zambrano is a bonafide ace and I personally think Prior will return for good next season. Also Rich Hill if given a stable position in the rotation will be decent in my opinion as well.

[witesoxfan]

Well Ive heard them connected to some big names coming in f/a.

 

The Cubs add a couple overpaid relievers to a team with much more pressing needs, give up 2-3 good arms for Juan Pierre who was mediocre as hell the year before, and keep the same horrible manager they've had since 2003. They regressed in 2004 and 2005, and are bad again this year. He's ruined their young arms, and yet they keep him. They lie about injuries. They are always "interested" in big name players in free agency and trades, yet always settle for worse. They charge fans to watch games from the roof of a neighboring building. Need I go on?

 

 

 

Someone's drinking the Kool-Aid

[JackTalkThai]

It was a verbal agreement, not actually written in his contract.

 

He did well today.

 

As far as I know, only Microline is suggesting that as fact.

 

There is still quite a bit of conjecture regarding that aspect of his contract.

[Palehosefan]

It sucks so bad having a UNC player on the Tigers. Especially one as talented as Miller. That rotation is going to be absolutely nasty for years to come.

[Flash Tizzle]

It sucks so bad having a UNC player on the Tigers. Especially one as talented as Miller. That rotation is going to be absolutely nasty for years to come.

As will the Twins. Which is why I'll continue to set ridiculous demands upon our minor league system. You have Garza/Santana/Liriano on one team, Verlander/Bonderman/Miller on another -- as well as good pitching prospects in the minors of both teams -- success from ours is crucial. I will no shrug my shoulders or simply say, "everyteam would want a (insert pitcher)"

 

We NEED strong starting pitching to compete with these rotations. It's necessary; because as I see it, this current rotation we're throwing out doesn't bode well when matched up with division rivals. Lance Broadway alone won't cut it. Lumsden would have been nice to atleast be given an opportunity. But you know, we gave him to a f***ING TEAM WITHIN OUR DIVISION! Another front line starter will have to emerge if we're realistically going to contend for the unforseeable future. I believe it comes down to that. Even with a high payroll, and a potential rotation of McCarthy/Broadway, does anyone see us signing long-term deals for quality pitchers?

[DBAHO]

As will the Twins. Which is why I'll continue to set ridiculous demands upon our minor league system. You have Garza/Santana/Liriano on one team, Verlander/Bonderman/Miller on another -- as well as good pitching prospects in the minors of both teams -- success from ours is crucial. I will no shrug my shoulders or simply say, "everyteam would want a (insert pitcher)"

 

We NEED strong starting pitching to compete with these rotations. It's necessary; because as I see it, this current rotation we're throwing out doesn't bode well when matched up with division rivals. Lance Broadway alone won't cut it. Lumsden would have been nice to atleast be given an opportunity. But you know, we gave him to a f***ING TEAM WITHIN OUR DIVISION! Another front line starter will have to emerge if we're realistically going to contend for the unforseeable future. I believe it comes down to that. Even with a high payroll, and a potential rotation of McCarthy/Broadway, does anyone see us signing long-term deals for quality pitchers?

In FA probably not. But you know Kenny, he'll make a deal to upgrade our rotation if he can.

 

Broadway can be an innings eater, a #4 - #5 starter type of guy. I assume McCullough will be that as well, when he'll probably start next season at B-Ham. So with B-Mac as well, that's 3 fairly young guys you could see in the rotation over the next say 3 or 4 years. You just need to keep developing it, and find those top notch guys to fill our your rotation.

[Flash Tizzle]

In FA probably not. But you know Kenny, he'll make a deal to upgrade our rotation if he can.

 

Broadway can be an innings eater, a #4 - #5 starter type of guy. I assume McCullough will be that as well, when he'll probably start next season at B-Ham. So with B-Mac as well, that's 3 fairly young guys you could see in the rotation over the next say 3 or 4 years. You just need to keep developing it, and find those top notch guys to fill our your rotation.

I wish Kenny would abandon such deals in the future. Want a front line starter? Develop one. Light a fire under the asses of those supposed "scouts" working in Latin American who haven't done s*** since Ordonez and Lee. See how they perform when there's actual pressure applied from management.

 

I'm not very confident with McCullough/Broadway rounding out a rotation. If those two and McCarthy are future starters, then there damn well better be another stud pitcher. Look at it this way -- how do any of those three match up against their future counterparts in Minnesota and Detroit? I'm not anticipaing any dynasties with such a trio.

Edited September 1, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[DBAHO]

I wish Kenny would abandon such deals in the future. Want a front line starter? Develop one. Light a fire under the asses of those supposed "scouts" working in Latin American who haven't done s*** since Ordonez and Lee. See how they perform when there's actual pressure applied from management.

 

I'm not very confident with McCullough/Broadway rounding out a rotation. If those two and McCarthy are future starters, then there damn well better be another stud pitcher. Look at it this way -- how do any of those three match up against their future counterparts in Minnesota and Detroit? I'm not anticipaing any dynasties with such a trio.

How many teams can actually develop a front - line starter though? Let's have a look at the aces in the MLB for the teams in 2 A.L Divisions. (I just like having these long winded discussions with ya Flash).

 

AL EAST

Baltimore - Eric Bedard. Shown flashes, finally starting to put it together, but really the only good SP the O's have.

Boston - Schilling. Traded for. Have Papelbon and Lester (who they're rushing) though.

New York - RJ. Traded for.

Tampa Bay - Scott Kazmir. Traded for, also developed in D-Rays system, but terrible decision by Fred Wilpon and Jim Duquette. Has arm issues though.

Toronto - Roy Halliday. Flat out stud, but really only the top notch starter the Jays have developed in the Riccardi era.

 

AL Central - Chicago - Right now it's probably Garland. Traded for, same as Contreras, while Buehrle was developed in our system.

Cleveland - C.C Sabathia. Developed by Cleveland. Have some other okish good young starters, and have Sowers and Miller coming through. Fairly good overall.

Detroit - Jeremy Bonderman. Was traded for, but developed nicely. Have Verlander and Miller, plus Humberto Sanchez coming through. Developing some good pitching, going about it the right way.

Kansas City - Odalis Perez? The only starter they've developed recently is Zach Greinke and he's back in AA.

Minny - Santana. Yes we know all about him, and Liriano. Perfect organization are the Twins. Every other team should follow their blueprint of how to develop good young pitching.

 

So in essence, we're in a division that just has 3 teams that know how to develop good young pitching. But as the teams in the A.L East, it's actually not that easy to do. You just need to have the right plan in terms of your drafts etc. and make sure to develop them properly when they come through.

 

I consider B-Mac to be a future #2-#3 starter, if he can show what he did in the 2nd half of last season. Who knows what Broadway and McCullough will do in the future, it's far too early to say, no they're not good enough to be really good in the MLB.

[Flash Tizzle]

So in essence, we're in a division that just has 3 teams that know how to develop good young pitching. But as the teams in the A.L East, it's actually not that easy to do. You just need to have the right plan in terms of your drafts etc. and make sure to develop them properly when they come through.

 

I consider B-Mac to be a future #2-#3 starter, if he can show what he did in the 2nd half of last season. Who knows what Broadway and McCullough will do in the future, it's far too early to say, no they're not good enough to be really good in the MLB.

So, how exactly will our future rotations match up against those within our division? Looking at what's available now and in the immediate future, convince me we're on a similar level as Minnesota and Detroit. You can't. This is ultimately my concern. Unless we're able to become the fourth team within the division capable of devleoping pitching, we're going to be f***ed for an extended period of time.

Edited September 1, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[DBAHO]

So, how exactly will our future rotations match up against those within our division? Looking at what's available now and in the immediate future, convince me we're on a similar level as Minnesota and Detroit. You can't. This is ultimately my concern. Unless we're able to become the fourth team within the division capable of devleoping pitching, we're going to be f***ed for an extended period of time.

Ok 5 years from now a future rotation of;

 

Garland

Buehrle

McCarthy

Broadway

FA or McCullough

 

You could swap Buehrle with a FA as well.

 

I wouldn't say Cleveland is the greatest at developing pitching (Sowers and Miller are the only 2 guys that stand out for me from their younger guys besides C.C), we're probably the same as them. But Minny and Detroit have done a good job. The thing is for Detroit, the traded for Bonderman and Verlander was a real high pick, so the Sox don't have access to those type of guys. So they have to do their work in the trade market, with there later draft picks, or signing FA's from Latin America.

 

There was an article I read a few weeks back saying how teams like Tampa Bay had signed something like 15 guys from the Dominican Republic or Latin America, just because it's actually pretty cheap to do so. The Sox were below 5 IIRC, so that's something they need to pick up on (and I agree with you there).

 

I'd really like for us to see more of an international presence in terms of having more scouts in that region, or even down here in Australia (which more teams besides Minnesota and Boston are finally doing). But I guess, the Sox Brass have decided, no we'll put the money into the payroll instead to try and win now, and hope we hit on some guys in the draft to try and keep our system looking ok. Long - term I have worries about this strategy just like you Flash, but at least we're in the middle - top 10 tier in terms of Major League Teams that can develop pitching.