Charlie Haeger

[jackie hayes]

Since the other thread's been designated the cuss-a-thon (understandably), I want to hear it here for that guy with the knuckleball that just fluttered into our hearts, the one, the only, Charlie Make-Em-Look-Stupid HAEGER!!!!!!

 

Short outing, I know, but he was throwing that thing well. He got lit up before, well, he's a knuckleballer, AND a rookie. It happens. But tonight he settled in after a batter or two, and he was impressive. Even mixed in the fastball beautifully.

 

Post yer kudos here.

[beautox]

Since the other thread's been designated the cuss-a-thon (understandably), I want to hear it here for that guy with the knuckleball that just fluttered into our hearts, the one, the only, Charlie Make-Em-Look-Stupid HAEGER!!!!!!

 

Short outing, I know, but he was throwing that thing well. He got lit up before, well, he's a knuckleballer, AND a rookie. It happens. But tonight he settled in after a batter or two, and he was impressive. Even mixed in the fastball beautifully.

 

Post yer kudos here.

 

yes nice work chuck, in his mlb debut he was throwing the knuckle in the high 70s low 80s, for a knuckle ball to be effective it needs to be thrown in the low 70s, he even said after his start he was incredibly nervous. Personally i know alot of people here don't like the idea of a knuckle baller in the rotataion but the sox have a proud tradition of it, and Haeger is MLB ready, him along with Broadway should be in the show in '07, if we got rid of Vazquez and Garcia we could have the same production for 1/20th the cost, between McCarthy and Haeger, also we could then spend that money on resigning MB long term, and getting a top tier SS.

[Dan]

Props to AJ. Its no easy task to catch the knuckler.

[jackie hayes]

yes nice work chuck, in his mlb debut he was throwing the knuckle in the high 70s low 80s, for a knuckle ball to be effective it needs to be thrown in the low 70s, he even said after his start he was incredibly nervous. Personally i know alot of people here don't like the idea of a knuckle baller in the rotataion but the sox have a proud tradition of it, and Haeger is MLB ready, him along with Broadway should be in the show in '07, if we got rid of Vazquez and Garcia we could have the same production for 1/20th the cost, between McCarthy and Haeger, also we could then spend that money on resigning MB long term, and getting a top tier SS.

Personally, I like the idea of keeping Haeger around. I know there's that prejudice against knucklers. But even if you have merely a fifth starter who just doesn't wear out, with a below-value price even after arbitration (cuz noone likes knucklers) -- that's a big plus for any club.

[beautox]

Personally, I like the idea of keeping Haeger around. I know there's that prejudice against knucklers. But even if you have merely a fifth starter who just doesn't wear out, with a below-value price even after arbitration (cuz noone likes knucklers) -- that's a big plus for any club.

I agree, an '07 rotation of

Jose

MB

Garland

McCarthy

Haeger

looks good to me, with Broadway waiting in the wings incase anyone goes down.

 

Trade Vazquez/Garcia + Uribe too the phillies for Rollins, put Sweeney in LF, and were golden.

[jackie hayes]

Why does that look good to you?

 

Mark has been very average this season. Count is a shell of the 2005 pitcher we fell in love with. Garland has been solid as hell the 2nd half, but had a brutal 1st half. I like McCarthy as much as the next guy, but he is going to have some pretty big bumps in the road next season. Im not sure I want him as my #4 just yet. Charlie just pitched two good innings against the Royals in a 7-1 game. Im not ready to put him into my rotation.

It seems odd to ask why that looks good, while comparing it to our current rotation, which has looked anything but good.

 

I would say that those 3 vets are at least the most obvious keepers. Personally, I wouldn't put Haeger in the rotation just yet, but I'd try McCarthy there, with Haeger and Broadway in the wings (close in the wings). For someone who thinks that way, switching Vazquez (a guy I still believe in, for some reason) for Haeger doesn't seem like it's that awful, even if it's not my first choice.

 

So I'm wondering -- would you keep this rotation intact? Or if you'd swap Brandon in for someone, is the only thing you're objecting to the extra Haeger-for-x switch?

[Gene Honda Civic]

It seems odd to ask why that looks good, while comparing it to our current rotation, which has looked anything but good.

 

I would say that those 3 vets are at least the most obvious keepers. Personally, I wouldn't put Haeger in the rotation just yet, but I'd try McCarthy there, with Haeger and Broadway in the wings (close in the wings). For someone who thinks that way, switching Vazquez (a guy I still believe in, for some reason) for Haeger doesn't seem like it's that awful, even if it's not my first choice.

 

So I'm wondering -- would you keep this rotation intact? Or if you'd swap Brandon in for someone, is the only thing you're objecting to the extra Haeger-for-x switch?

Haeger had an ERA over 5 since the first of July in AAA. He'd fit right in our rotation.

[beautox]

Why does that look good to you?

 

Mark has been very average this season. Count is a shell of the 2005 pitcher we fell in love with. Garland has been solid as hell the 2nd half, but had a brutal 1st half. I like McCarthy as much as the next guy, but he is going to have some pretty big bumps in the road next season. Im not sure I want him as my #4 just yet. Charlie just pitched two good innings against the Royals in a 7-1 game. Im not ready to put him into my rotation.

Well, MB is LHP, Young, Durable and is having a "down" year, we might be able to lock him up long term below market value.

 

Jose is prolly the biggest health risk out of the bunch but has proven that he can dominate for long strechtes of time, if he goes down or isn't performing around ASG '07 Broadway should be ready or at least thats the informed opinion of John Sickels.

 

Garland has been great the second half and is the winningest pitcher in the bigs for the past two years, he hasn't lost his "stuff" and is young and durable and cheap.

 

McCarthy has been improperly used this year missing weeks at a time before pitching, and last year and this year has shown flashes of brilliance when he gets a consistant feel for his pitches.

 

Haeger is young, a knuckle baller, healty, cheap and durable and could take the ball every 5th day and give you 6 +, thats all you can ask for from a 5th starter

 

With the money saved from Garcia + Vazquez and like i said we can get the same production from Haeger/McCarthy for 1/23rd the cost. Also we can get a top tier lead off man/SS and lock up Crede/MB long term.

[beautox]

says the '06 white sox staff.

[GoodAsGould]

personally id trade both Contreras and Garcia. Vazquez to me can still be fixed and I think next season we will get the benefits from hanging with him this year. That way if we can get Peavy sure throw him in if not let the young guys fill out the rotation. No matter what route we go even if we keep the exact same 1-5 I think our rotation will be better next season.

[jackie hayes]

Try to spin Garcia-Fields-Pods for Peavy.

 

Try and sell high on Contreras, get a nice batch of prospects back to re-stock the system

 

I still believe in Vaz as well for some reason, and want to see if he can work on things in the offseason

 

Mark

Peavy

Jon

Vaz

Mac

 

I would have no problem with that, and with Freddy and Count off the books(might have to pick up some of the tab on both guys) we should have no problem spending some cash if need be on LF/SS or locking up Joe or Dye.

Well, okay. But a guy could make the same complaints about that rotation that you made earlier. Peavy has been very average -- in the NL, no less.

 

If the Pads would take that deal, which I doubt. Fields is decent and Freddy is marginal, and I think clubs will be very cautious in giving up a 2-year ace. There's a lot of false hope built into this scenario, methinks.

[jackie hayes]

Haeger had an ERA over 5 since the first of July in AAA. He'd fit right in our rotation.

In the sad but prolly true category.

 

Knuckleballers will do that. You know how inconsistent they can be. Wakefield will sometimes be much worse than a 5 era over 2 months. The thing is, he's always bounced back. I'd prefer to wait some more on Haeger, see if he sustains it. But if he does, great. Say it translates into a 4.5 era in mlb. I'll take that over the chimera that Coop'll take any piece of garbage and make him a 3.8 era pitcher over 200 innings.

 

We believe in Vazquez, some of us, anyway, because you can see that he has a great arm. Haeger showed that he can throw some great stuff -- why should we believe any less in that?

 

SD has nothing going on at 3B. Im pretty sure they dont even have anything even close in the minors at 3B. Someone might be able to back me up about that. Fields IMO is a little more than "decent" when putting him in a trade.

 

David Wells just got back a pretty solid prospect, by SD none the less. Freddy Garcia>David Wells, especially in the AL, in Petco. Freddy has value, especially if we pick up some of the bill.

Peavy is a borderline ace having a down year, and I think he could be moved. He had a very solid Aug, so it's very possible he could follow it up with a good September.

Im obviously just throwing it out there, but I think its something to look at.

Fields is a borderline 3b, by some reports. The Pads will obviously look at that.

 

I just don't know. The basic 3b prospect trade this past summer was (in its essentials) Coco Crisp for Andy Marte. Peavy is much more valuable than Crisp, Marte is more valuable than Fields, so I don't know why SD would take this -- unless, maybe, you pay for everything owed to Freddy. I just don't think it's workable.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Personally, I hate Vazquez. Yeah he has a great arm, but he can't do a damn thing with it. He can't pitch over errors, umpire mistakes, or past the 6th inning.

[beautox]

I've been on the fence about vazquez, so frustraing, but his last outing he pitched into the 6th, over errors and only gave up 2, and was in line for the W, maybe hes turned the corner, i'm desperate for someone to man up in this rotation aside from Garland and lead us to the post season again.

[GoodAsGould]

Jackie you havent read anything about Fields this season have you? He has improved greatly at the hot corner.... dont get me wrong he is no Joe Crede but he is definitely a good 3B or will be. Also I think we would pay a sizable of Garcia's contract and maybe throw an addin like Phillips.

[jackie hayes]

Jackie you havent read anything about Fields this season have you? He has improved greatly at the hot corner.... dont get me wrong he is no Joe Crede but he is definitely a good 3B or will be. Also I think we would pay a sizable of Garcia's contract and maybe throw an addin like Phillips.

Uh...okay. I've read some lukewarm reviews, that he'll probably make an acceptable third baseman. Also that the Sox decided to give him some time in the of, which can't inspire confidence. Tell me where these glowing reviews are, that he's making spectacular progress, 101...

[GoodAsGould]

Uh...okay. I've read some lukewarm reviews, that he'll probably make an acceptable third baseman. Also that the Sox decided to give him some time in the of, which can't inspire confidence. Tell me where these glowing reviews are, that he's making spectacular progress, 101...

 

The only reason he is being considered to move to the OF is because we have Joe Crede. He isnt going to be an amazing 3B defensively but he is more than acceptable there and he has improved greatly at the hot corner. But thats fine you keep going on talking about him and telling us what his value is when you obviously dont know much about him.

[jackie hayes]

The only reason he is being considered to move to the OF is because we have Joe Crede. He isnt going to be an amazing 3B defensively but he is more than acceptable there and he has improved greatly at the hot corner. But thats fine you keep going on talking about him and telling us what his value is when you obviously dont know much about him.

I don't think that's the only reason, since before this year it had been said widely that he was simply not good enough to play 3b in the majors, but since you're obviously a part of Sox management, why should I question you...

 

You said I hadn't read anything. I told you my impression of what I have read and asked you to cite sources refuting that. Put up or shut up, 101.

[GoodAsGould]

I don't think that's the only reason, since before this year it had been said widely that he was simply not good enough to play 3b in the majors, but since you're obviously a part of Sox management, why should I question you...

 

You said I hadn't read anything. I told you my impression of what I have read and asked you to cite sources refuting that. Put up or shut up, 101.

 

My reference is reading the futuresox board something you should do more. When Fields was first drafted it was thought yes he would eventually move to the OF or DH. But if you paid attention to the futuresox board and the people there that watch the games and everything. You would know that his defense is leaps and bounds better than what it used to be. It has improved every season and no reason to think it wont keep improving considering the kind of athlete he is. And how do you have an impression on a player without ever watching him. I dont consider myself a scout or anything but i try to make it to a few minorleague games to see the players with my own 2 eyes and know what im talking about.

 

Im not saying im a better baseball fan than you or I know more about it than you... but its fairly obvious you have never seen him play and that your just going by what was originally written up about him when first drafted.

[beck72]

No way would I put Charlie into the 07 rotation [after 2 innings of good ball?]. Haeger could be working himself into a long relief role if he keeps throwing well.

 

Contreras is a keeper despite his struggles. Freddy is still the odd man out.

 

With few high quality free agent SP's out there, someone will pay a decent price for one of the sox SP's. But the Sox could and probably would get burned if they tried to trade 2. Few guys out there are better than what the sox currently have.

Edited September 2, 2006 by beck72

[jackie hayes]

My reference is reading the futuresox board something you should do more. When Fields was first drafted it was thought yes he would eventually move to the OF or DH. But if you paid attention to the futuresox board and the people there that watch the games and everything. You would know that his defense is leaps and bounds better than what it used to be. It has improved every season and no reason to think it wont keep improving considering the kind of athlete he is. And how do you have an impression on a player without ever watching him. I dont consider myself a scout or anything but i try to make it to a few minorleague games to see the players with my own 2 eyes and know what im talking about.

 

Im not saying im a better baseball fan than you or I know more about it than you... but its fairly obvious you have never seen him play and that your just going by what was originally written up about him when first drafted.

No, I wasn't, and no, it's not. What I've read this year -- not when he was drafted -- suggests that he's not bad now, as he had been in Birmingham, but nowhere have I read that he's turned into a plus defender. For example, when I said some reviews had been lukewarm, I was thinking of the Sickels interview. " I think he can stay at third base if they want him too. He has the range and arm for the position." Not panning him, but that sounds like "acceptable" to me. Not "excellent".

 

But just to be sure, I went back and did a search on "fields" in the Future Sox board, and read everything back to mid-May. And I'm still missing the fulsome praise for his 3b play that you're referring to. So why don't you, in the spirit of educating us mouth breathers, please show me precisely which reviews you initially suggested I should read. I presume you're not referring to your statement from this year, "Also since he isnt a great 3B which would make even more since for him to move to LF." Wait, that seems to be the opposite of... Well, I'm sure you'll explain it.

[elrockinMT]

Props to AJ. Its no easy task to catch the knuckler.

 

 

I think we might benefit from bringing J.C. Martin back to catch. If Charlie continues to shine he might fit in well as a long relief man. A knuckler for a starter sure wouldn't bother me though.

[wcw2323]

I think we might benefit from bringing J.C. Martin back to catch. If Charlie continues to shine he might fit in well as a long relief man. A knuckler for a starter sure wouldn't bother me though.

Charlie's numbers have been nothing but impressive for the last two years. His record is 28-11 during stops at B'ham and Charlotte. He led the IL in wins with 14 this year and was fourth in ERA, just over 3.00. He also started the AAA All-Star game! He has proven himself to be successful at every level, so why not in the show?

Charlie suffered from first time jitters during his brief stint earlier this year, but who wouldn't?. I think he would be great as a long reliefer, spot starter next year. Move B-Mac into the rotation and let Charlie take his spot as the long reliefer, mop up guy for the first year. Then move him into the rotation in '08. What a great asset to have in the bullpen. He can chew up innings and recover very quickly. It gives him a chance to get his feet wet.

[Texsox]

I am not even close to thinking moves should be made to find a spot for him in the starting rotation. I't watched too many players, and especially pitchers, struggle once they get to the mlb level. He's getting an extened tryout, under playoff race conditions. We'll see this month and next Spring if he's a player.

[GoodAsGould]

No, I wasn't, and no, it's not. What I've read this year -- not when he was drafted -- suggests that he's not bad now, as he had been in Birmingham, but nowhere have I read that he's turned into a plus defender. For example, when I said some reviews had been lukewarm, I was thinking of the Sickels interview. " I think he can stay at third base if they want him too. He has the range and arm for the position." Not panning him, but that sounds like "acceptable" to me. Not "excellent".

 

And I never said he was a plus defender. He is an avg. defender right now at the hot corner. He still makes some stupid mistakes but he also makes a lot of great plays at 3B too. And like I also said the only reason now for him to move to LF is because of Crede. When you have a relatively young 3B who is a plus defender and is hitting .300 with around 30 HR's and is still under your control for the next couple of seasons why replace him?