Sox Lose Series to KC 9/3/06

[ottawa_sox]

Is there not one person out there who's willing to defend Ozzie Guillen?

 

Why? I've been hoping for the resurgence to begin with each game. So far ...... nothing. When is Ozzie going to perform a Venezuelan/Vulcan mindmeld with his slumping veterans? The pitching staff could be mistaken for the Orioles, given their mediocrity, for crying out loud. Can't Ozzie do something for these guys? Of course it should be noted that the Tigers and the Twins are also limping down the stretch. Therefore Leyland and Gardenhire should also be raked over the coals and summarily fired when the season ends for their recent performances when all is at stake. And concerning what Francona deserves ........ well let's not even go there. Some of the top records in baseball be damned .......let's have ourselves a regular American major league manager Wickerman party. Toss in these 4 jokers and have some fun. Torre is lucky his team is hot at the right time. Last year .... well just plain unforgivable. And how about the Red Sox debacle from 2 years ago. Up 3-0 and then total collapse.... criminies.

[Wealz]

Guillen will get them to the post-season.

 

Why? I've been hoping for the resurgence to begin with each game. So far ...... nothing. When is Ozzie going to perform a Venezuelan/Vulcan mindmeld with his slumping veterans? The pitching staff could be mistaken for the Orioles, given their mediocrity, for crying out loud. Can't Ozzie do something for these guys? Of course it should be noted that the Tigers and the Twins are also limping down the stretch. Therefore Leyland and Gardenhire should also be raked over the coals and summarily fired when the season ends for their recent performances when all is at stake. And concerning what Francona deserves ........ well let's not even go there. Some of the top records in baseball be damned .......let's have ourselves a regular American major league manager Wickerman party. Toss in these 4 jokers and have some fun. Torre is lucky his team is hot at the right time. Last year .... well just plain unforgivable. And how about the Red Sox debacle from 2 years ago. Up 3-0 and then total collapse.... criminies.

 

Whichever team hires the Great Tom Kelly in the next two weeks wins the World Series.

[shawnhillegas]

Watching Wilfredo Ledezma pitch tonight is so freakin' frustrating.

 

These situations aren't totally, 100% identical, but they're fairly comparable. Leyland had a starter in Zack Miner who had performed reasonably well for most of the year. He also had another starter in Ledezma who had been bounced between AAA and the majors, and who had performed well at both places. Leyland didn't get all sentimental w/r/t Miner when the decision came to bump Miner out of the rotation and Ledezma in; it was made as soon as it was obvious to everyone that Ledezma was a better option than Miner.

 

In Freddy Garcia, we pretty much know what we're going to get at this point in the season. At best, he can give the team seven innings of two-to-three runs, meaning a good start, but by no means a dominant one. At worst, he gives up close to a run per inning. Basically, you have his August -- one good start, one decent start, and a bunch of mediocre to bad starts.

 

Now, I know that recently Brandon's two recent outings haven't instilled a whole lot of confidence in people. And, to that, I say this: I don't think BMac is going to adjust to pitching in the bullpen. Over the past three months, in outings where McCarthy has pitched two or more innings, he has given up a total of four ER in those appearances. Those appearances, BTW, covered close to 30 innings pitched (I think it's 28 right on the button).

 

And don't tell me that McCarthy isn't stretched out, either. I know that if McCarthy were to take Garcia's next scheduled start, he could give the team at least four-to-six innings. After that, you play the matchups and use Haeger/Logan/Riske/Cotts to get you to the seventh.

 

 

 

watching ledezma makes me really think that thornton could be a starter. ledezma is really only a 1 pitch pitcher (when he does throw that curve, vlad hits it hard).

[greg775]

These are not facts especially seeing how MacDougal and Thornton are 2 of the better setupmen in all of basebal.

You really believe this??

[Kalapse]

You really believe this??

Yes, I'm not so sure how you can say otherwise unless you haven't seen them pitch at all this season. MacDougal has been just SICK since the Sox acquired him,

 

MacDougal: 1.50 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, .246 BAA, 14K:2BB all in 18 innings of work.

 

Thornton (since June 3rd): 2.70 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, .256 BAA, 23K:10BB in 30 innings of work.

 

It took Thornton some time but over the past 3 months especially he has been just awesome. Why exactly do you think they're bad again?

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Watching Wilfredo Ledezma pitch tonight is so freakin' frustrating.

 

These situations aren't totally, 100% identical, but they're fairly comparable. Leyland had a starter in Zack Miner who had performed reasonably well for most of the year. He also had another starter in Ledezma who had been bounced between AAA and the majors, and who had performed well at both places. Leyland didn't get all sentimental w/r/t Miner when the decision came to bump Miner out of the rotation and Ledezma in; it was made as soon as it was obvious to everyone that Ledezma was a better option than Miner.

 

In Freddy Garcia, we pretty much know what we're going to get at this point in the season. At best, he can give the team seven innings of two-to-three runs, meaning a good start, but by no means a dominant one. At worst, he gives up close to a run per inning. Basically, you have his August -- one good start, one decent start, and a bunch of mediocre to bad starts.

 

Now, I know that recently Brandon's two recent outings haven't instilled a whole lot of confidence in people. And, to that, I say this: I don't think BMac is going to adjust to pitching in the bullpen. Over the past three months, in outings where McCarthy has pitched two or more innings, he has given up a total of four ER in those appearances. Those appearances, BTW, covered close to 30 innings pitched (I think it's 28 right on the button).

 

And don't tell me that McCarthy isn't stretched out, either. I know that if McCarthy were to take Garcia's next scheduled start, he could give the team at least four-to-six innings. After that, you play the matchups and use Haeger/Logan/Riske/Cotts to get you to the seventh.

 

And Ledezma was dealing threw six innings (and he only threw about 70 pitches), but Leyland still took him out and went to Zumaya. With Ozzie, somebody just wont have it and he'll still leave his ass out there. No way Freddy should have pitched in the 8th today.

[SinkingShip06]

Yes, I'm not so sure how you can say otherwise unless you haven't seen them pitch at all this season. MacDougal has been just SICK since the Sox acquired him,

 

MacDougal: 1.50 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, .246 BAA, 14K:2BB all in 18 innings of work.

 

Thornton (since June 3rd): 2.70 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, .256 BAA, 23K:10BB in 30 innings of work.

 

It took Thornton some time but over the past 3 months especially he has been just awesome. Why exactly do you think they're bad again?

 

the last 3 guys have been totally awesome out of the pen. it's the guys in front of them that make the bullpen look vulnerable. if our starters went longer in games, the bullpen would feel stronger cause we really wouldn't see cotts, riske, and bmac

[greg775]

Well both those guys you mentioned cost us games in the past week.

[SoxHawk1980]

Guillen will get them to the post-season.

Blind faith must be fun. I kind of wish I could have blind faith in Ozzie and the White Sox. The problem is that I've seen them play this season, and I've seen Ozzie's managing.

[beautox]

I said halfway reliable starters we have two (Jon and Mark).

Yes all those things were evident in June and KW could have done something about

it. How is that Oz's fault.

Rather than blame Ozzie which is the easy way out IMO, I personally don't think

our team is pennant caliber when our starters are average to below average.

Face facts. Our bullpen sucks with the exception of Jenks. Our starters have been

s*** with the exception of Jon; despite the BA love, he has not been a productive

hitter; Pods has been terrible. Uribe hasn't hit s*** this season.

AJ has been pretty good.

That leaves us with the four studs Dye, Thome, Konerko, Crede.

They have had powerful years with the bat, but unable to carry a team with

no starting pitching and a weak bullpen.

Pitching always has been the name of the game. We ain't got it this year

and HOW IS THAT OZZIE'S FAULT????

I love Oz. Go Sox!

 

sorry i came late to the dance, but what f***ing team are you watching? Thornton and MacDougal are SICK, and some of the better set up men in the league, Riske is great in the 6-7th, Cotts this year is "teh sux" and McCarthy has been used wrong since day one and last year between intermitten stops in Chicago led the IL in strike outs, he doesn't suck and he isn't just going to be a "#3 starter", McCarthy has shown flashes of brilliance late last season.

 

Brian Anderson is hitting .303 in his Last 30 Days, and is increibly productive.

 

Ozzie is blowing games where we could've already taken the divison.

[greg775]

Help me out here.

You are saying McDougal, Thornton, Riske and Cotts have been good?

If I am out of line, lemme know. I consider none of those four guys reliable.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Help me out here.

You are saying McDougal, Thornton, Riske and Cotts have been good?

If I am out of line, lemme know. I consider none of those four guys reliable.

 

Thornton and McDougal have been REAL good. Riske has been blah. Cotts has been horses*** since August 1.

Edited September 4, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[Kalapse]

Help me out here.

You are saying McDougal, Thornton, Riske and Cotts have been good?

If I am out of line, lemme know. I consider none of those four guys reliable.

He said Cotts is "teh sux" which is not good.

[greg775]

Thornton got the loss in the loss, immediately getting shelled when he came in

against the Twins last Sat. at the Cell which sucked since we'd battled back only

to lose in the 11th cause of him.

The day before it was Mac in the ninth who got shelled and cost us that game.

I realize two games do not make a career, but in both cases they got shelled

and got the loss and I think deserve blame for those s*** efforts.

Maybe their stats are good, but I wouldn't call either totally reliable.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I don't get to see as many games as you all.

You got to admit they sucked in both those outings which were not long ago.

Edited September 4, 2006 by greg775

[Kalapse]

Scot Shields blew a save just yesterday allowing 3 hits and 2 BB in 1 IP, does that mean he's not reliable? Is he bad? Relievers are going to give up runs, all of them are, the good ones are the guys who limit the mistakes and more often than not get you out of jams. Both Thornton and MacDougal have been great this year even if they have given up some runs late in games recently, it happens to all relievers.

[beautox]

Maybe their stats are good, but I wouldn't call either totally reliable.

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I don't get to see as many games as you all.

You got to admit they sucked in both those outings which were not long ago.

You are definatly wrong, Jenks/MacDougal/Thornton = The New Nasty Boys, The old nasty boys were Rob Dibble/Norm Charlton/Randy Myers

[greg775]

Why do Thornton and Mac get a free pass when they were responsible for 2 key

losses vs. the Twins and Oz is blamed for everything on here?

I am just saying when those guys trot in there I am not confident. Can you honestly

say you are happy when both come in??

[beautox]

Why do Thornton and Mac get a free pass when they were responsible for 2 key

losses vs. the Twins and Oz is blamed for everything on here?

I am just saying when those guys trot in there I am not confident. Can you honestly

say you are happy when both come in??

Why do you give Ozzie a pass when he clearly has been asleep at the wheel this season for example; Letting Neal Cotts face Justin Morneau in a tight situation late in a game in a winable situation this season when Morneau is 5 for 7 lifetime against Cotts with a HR.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Why do Thornton and Mac get a free pass when they were responsible for 2 key

losses vs. the Twins and Oz is blamed for everything on here?

I am just saying when those guys trot in there I am not confident. Can you honestly

say you are happy when both come in??

Twins fans hate Joe Nathan too. That bastard blew a save to the White Sox.

Oh and Dennys Reyes sucks too. Did you see him load the bases and get pulled in the middle of an at-bat? The should have sent him to Rochester after that.

Pat Neshek gave up a game tying HR. Can't be trusted anymore.

Edited September 4, 2006 by Gene Honda Civic

[greg775]

I give Ozzie a free pass because he's going with the guys provided to him

by KW.

I think I don't have as high an opinion as a lot of our players as some of you do.

I tend to blame players more than managers unless they are obviously in over

their heads like Bevington.

[beautox]

I give Ozzie a free pass because he's going with the guys provided to him

by KW.

I think I don't have as high an opinion as a lot of our players as some of you do.

I tend to blame players more than managers unless they are obviously in over

their heads like Bevington.

Ozzie makes the line ups, and puts in whomever he feels, it solely falls on him. Rob Mackowiak should never see CF again, and Scott Podsednik should've been benched after May, these are Ozzies calls not the players.

[greg775]

OK you say Pods shoulda been benched in May. That means you think Ozuna and

Mack are better options. I don't.

Neither of those guys are better than Pods. No way.

[Kalapse]

Ozzie makes the line ups, and puts in whomever he feels, it solely falls on him. Rob Mackowiak should never see CF again, and Scott Podsednik should've been benched after May, these are Ozzies calls not the players.

Not to mention the fact that both Sandy Alomar and Matt Thornton would both we acquired due to a direct request from the coaching staff, if Ozzie feels he needs something for his team, KW has proven that he will go out and get the guy that Ozzie and his coaching staff feel to be the best fit for the team.

[greg775]

I follow em closely every day and watch as many as i can on TV.

I know all our players skills very well.

In other words, I'm educated on our team.

I may not be able to rattle off all the "good" outings from Thornton and Mac

but I have seen some bad ones on the telly and in game reports.

You can't tell me Ozuna and Mack are better than Pods.

No way.

[Kalapse]

OK you say Pods shoulda been benched in May. That means you think Ozuna and

Mack are better options. I don't.

Neither of those guys are better than Pods. No way.

They're playing better than him this season. Scott Podsednik has proven that he is not a major league baseball player. Leadoff hitters in the big leagues do not hit .259 with .330 OBP and play s*** defense, what exactly does Podsednik do better than either of Mack or Pablo.

 

Also how do you defend Guillen's excessive use of Mackowiak in CF despite the fact that Mackowiak said himself that he is not a major league caliber CF?