Tetrahydrogestrinone on a HR tear

[MHizzle85]

The guy is a lying asshole who plays the race card when he is questioned about. f*** him.

 

I thnk the preception of Bonds here and among the MLB would be a lot different if he acted like Harold Baines while being on the juice.

If you truly think he doesn't catch some flack because of race, then i want some of what you're smokin'.

[RME JICO]

The guy is a lying asshole who plays the race card when he is questioned about. f*** him.

 

I thnk the preception of Bonds here and among the MLB would be a lot different if he acted like Harold Baines while being on the juice.

 

Harold Baines was on the juice?

[witesoxfan]

When these guys start dropping dead at the age of 45 from steroid-related heart attacks, then people will finally see why MLB is trying to clean up the sport. All you have to do is check out a wrestling website every month, and it seems there's another guy in the 40-50 year old range dropping dead.

 

Bringing this up reminds me of Ken Caminiti. What steroids will do to a guy.

[T R U]

Bringing this up reminds me of Ken Caminiti. What steroids will do to a guy.

 

More like drugs.. if you dont abuse steroids you will not die from them

 

We should see if we can sign Bonds to play LF for us, hopefully he takes a pay cut!!

[Balta1701]

More like drugs.. if you dont abuse steroids you will not die from them

 

We should see if we can sign Bonds to play LF for us, hopefully he takes a pay cut!!

A lot of people wind up "Dying" from steroids, in the same way that people wind up Dying from AIDS. They are terrible for the body...especially in doses that athletes take. They don't kill you directly, and neither does AIDS. But they weaken the body tremendously, such that its much easier for something else to come along and kill.

[Texsox]

Hammerin' Hank >>>>>> Bonds

 

Bonds + steroids = more home runs than Hank.

 

And, he'll have the record for a very long time. A-Rod has a chance, but I don't see him playing enough years.

[T R U]

A lot of people wind up "Dying" from steroids, in the same way that people wind up Dying from AIDS. They are terrible for the body...especially in doses that athletes take. They don't kill you directly, and neither does AIDS. But they weaken the body tremendously, such that its much easier for something else to come along and kill.

 

Yes maybe those who abuse them.. but comparing steroid use to aids? come on, thats not even close

[Soxbadger]

What about Governator Arnold?

 

Why isnt he dead?

 

In the end, I dont believe the govt has a right to make laws soley to protect ourselves. Bonds never hurt anyone, and even if we take everything about how steriods hurt your body as true, all he ever hurt was himself.

 

We let people drink, and I hate to break it but alcohol is one of the only known toxins that is harmful to every single organ. The only difference is the alcohol lobby has lots of money.

[Phuck the Cubs]

What about Governator Arnold?

 

Why isnt he dead?

Or Canseco

[witesoxfan]

Or Canseco

 

Huh? I don't get the comparison

 

Arnold = 59

Canseco = 42

 

17 years difference is kind of huge

[Balta1701]

What about Governator Arnold?

 

Why isnt he dead?

Magic Johnson contracted HIV, but is not yet dead. Therefore, the HIV Virus can not kill anyone.

[Soxbadger]

Magic is a simple explanation.

 

If you are a millionaire, HIV is no longer a death sentence. They have drugs that will combat the disease and allow you to live a relatively healthy normal life.

 

Where as Arnold used steriods and has so far suffered few if any side effects. You see everyone point to WWE people as examples of steriods killing them off, but you rarely see them delve into the fact that many of these wrestlers had other addictions besides steriods which played major roles in their death.

 

The result is, fathom's "when they start dropping dead at 40-50" is nothing more than unsubstantiated myths.

 

Just like the first Ultimate Warrior died, just like every other unproven myth. I doubt that Bonds dies any earlier than most of the other players of his age group.

 

What then?

[Balta1701]

You say "Magic is a simple explanation" but then totally ignore the reality of the point. Magic is alive with HIV while many are dead precisely because he has had the ability and the desire to deal with the problems created by his condition.

 

In other words, it is possible for you to do a hell of a lot of damage to your body and still survive it if you stop doing the damage at some point, correct the problems, and then also get lucky.

 

Who knows what age these people will wind up dying at. Some of them will be smart enough to try to help their bodies recover through some method. Some will just get lucky. But that doesn't mean that it does no damage at all.

 

The "it didn't hurt this guy so it clearly isn't a problem" logic you're trying to use is an example of the Post Hoc fallacy...because Canseco and Arnold are not dead, therefore steroid use can not kill.

Edited October 11, 2006 by Balta1701

[ptatc]

Magic is a simple explanation.

 

If you are a millionaire, HIV is no longer a death sentence. They have drugs that will combat the disease and allow you to live a relatively healthy normal life.

 

Where as Arnold used steriods and has so far suffered few if any side effects. You see everyone point to WWE people as examples of steriods killing them off, but you rarely see them delve into the fact that many of these wrestlers had other addictions besides steriods which played major roles in their death.

 

The result is, fathom's "when they start dropping dead at 40-50" is nothing more than unsubstantiated myths.

 

Just like the first Ultimate Warrior died, just like every other unproven myth. I doubt that Bonds dies any earlier than most of the other players of his age group.

 

What then?

 

This is simply not true. Arnold may not die as early as some but the steriod abuse will catch up to him. The retired NFL players are the prime example. One of my favorite teams the Steelers were the first known abusers. Look at the results. There have all sorts of stories of them going nuts (Holmes and his turnpike shooting spree. mike webster and the driving spree), needing organ transplants (steve courson) attempted suicides (tunch Ilkin). Streiods abuse as with any other abuse will kill you. People with money can "buy" time in many cases with experimental thing that most people cannot afford, but don't let that fool you, the steroids will either kill your liver (ben johnson), enlarge your heart (steve courson) or give you a brain tumor (lyle alzado). It will get you in one way or another.

[Phuck the Cubs]

^That's if you abuse steriods and do other stuff while taking them. Canseco said in his book he never did anything else like alcohol or weed or any other drugs. He also said that he didn't abuse them.

[ptatc]

^That's if you abuse steriods and do other stuff while taking them. Canseco said in his book he never did anything else like alcohol or weed or any other drugs. He also said that he didn't abuse them.

 

Spoken like a man who is addicted to them. Most normal people don't go tearing up bars and getting sued for it. See recent behavoir of Canseco twins. Also look at all of the trouble Jose had with the law because of domestic violence and aggressive behavior. It's got nothing to do with taking other things. Alcohol and pot do not destroy the body like anabolic steroids. Look in the medical literature don't believe a guy who wrote a book because he was pissed at baseball. It's all there. Anabolic steriods will destroy the body. It's like the smoker who says "I'm 90 years old and I've smoked all my life" as he is using bottled oxygen and a walker. It may not destroy everyone at the same rate but it will get you.

[T R U]

This is simply not true. Arnold may not die as early as some but the steriod abuse will catch up to him. The retired NFL players are the prime example. One of my favorite teams the Steelers were the first known abusers. Look at the results. There have all sorts of stories of them going nuts (Holmes and his turnpike shooting spree. mike webster and the driving spree), needing organ transplants (steve courson) attempted suicides (tunch Ilkin). Streiods abuse as with any other abuse will kill you. People with money can "buy" time in many cases with experimental thing that most people cannot afford, but don't let that fool you, the steroids will either kill your liver (ben johnson), enlarge your heart (steve courson) or give you a brain tumor (lyle alzado). It will get you in one way or another.

 

Another common misconception purveyed in popular culture and the media include the myth that anabolic steroids are highly dangerous and users mortality rates are high. Anabolic steroids are used widely in the medical field without any serious health risks to users[25][26][27] and no scientific evidence has shown any long term serious health defects from correct use of anabolic steroids. While risk of death is present in many drugs, the risk of premature death from use of anabolic steroids seems to be extremely low.[28] It is possible this myth gained popularity from claims that Lyle Alzado died from brain cancer caused by anabolic steroids. Alzado himself had claimed that his cancer was caused by anabolic steroids. However, there is no medical evidence anabolic steroids can cause brain cancer and Alzado's own doctors admitted anabolic steroids had nothing to do with his death.[29]

 

^ from Wikipedia

 

Like I have been saying already, you use them properly and dont abuse them and you arent gonna die.

[Phuck the Cubs]

^ from Wikipedia

 

Like I have been saying already, you use them properly and dont abuse them and you arent gonna die.

Like Canseco

[witesoxfan]

Like Canseco

 

Again, Canseco's 42.

[Soxbadger]

No actually my argument is that the scientific community is no where in agreement on steriods.

 

Not to mention you are talking about entirely different drugs from the 1970's to 2006. What specific steriod are you talking about?

 

"Steriods" cover many different drugs, many of them with highly different side effects. It would be like saying all morning sickness drugs cause deformaties. When it was a specific drug, thalidomide.

 

Im not saying that steriods are good, just that their many of their risks are created to prevent younger more impressionable minds from taking them. Steriods are especially risky for people who have not grown fully as screwing with testosterone levels can cause adverse effects.

 

But at the same time, many of the myths associated with steriods are overblown. Every site on Alzado will say "he believed" not that there was any scientific fact to support him.

[ptatc]

^ from Wikipedia

 

Like I have been saying already, you use them properly and dont abuse them and you arent gonna die.

 

You can believe a reference from Wikipedia if you wish, however I'll stick to the medical literature and what I've seen in pro sports. Taking a high enough dosage of anabolic steriods will cause internal organ damage and lead to a shorter life span. There are no true double-blind randomised trials on humans anywhere in any literature stating conclusively what they will do to you. It would unethical for anyone to subject a client to this type of testing. I don't know why you are buying into the "steroids are ok" spiel but I'll bet it wasn't from someone who has taken them for an extended period of time. There are always a few who last awhile and others say "if they can do it so can I." But as I said earlier it's like the smokers who make to 80 y/o and say I did it and I'm fine. talk to the other thousands who didn't make it.

[fullcollapse]

i just quickly scanned the last page or so of this thread, so if this was already brought up, sorry for being lazy. what dosage of anabolic steroids is considered abusive? what amount would be considered to be "safe?" and how much steroids would you need to see a significant difference in muscle mass? would a safe amount of steroids cause enough of a difference to really beef someone up?

[Balta1701]

i just quickly scanned the last page or so of this thread, so if this was already brought up, sorry for being lazy. what dosage of anabolic steroids is considered abusive? what amount would be considered to be "safe?" and how much steroids would you need to see a significant difference in muscle mass? would a safe amount of steroids cause enough of a difference to really beef someone up?

Normally, anabolic steroids are given to some patients to treat certain conditions. I've been put on them before for an asthma attack if I recall correctly (was like 3rd grade). The doses that athletes take in order to increase muscle mass are generally 10 to 100 times the doses prescribed by doctors for actual treatment. Athletes will also often combine multiple steroids, or will combine steroids and something like HGH (as Bonds did), because the different chemicals may affect the body in different ways. Generally, anything taken outside the supervision of a doctor would be described as abuse by the law, so even small amounts would qualify if not done with a doctor's approval, and with athletes, we're talking about orders of magnitude larger doses.

[T R U]

i just quickly scanned the last page or so of this thread, so if this was already brought up, sorry for being lazy. what dosage of anabolic steroids is considered abusive? what amount would be considered to be "safe?" and how much steroids would you need to see a significant difference in muscle mass? would a safe amount of steroids cause enough of a difference to really beef someone up?

 

 

Depending on the cycles your running..

 

If you run your cycle, take the time off you are supposed to, take the right amounts you are supposed to you arent going to detroy yourself..

 

Even using a small amount of steroids will increase your muscle mass just because of how much it magnifies certain natural things in your own body.. like it has already been mentioned before though there are a ton of different steroids now that you can use for different types of gains

[ptatc]

Normally, anabolic steroids are given to some patients to treat certain conditions. I've been put on them before for an asthma attack if I recall correctly (was like 3rd grade). The doses that athletes take in order to increase muscle mass are generally 10 to 100 times the doses prescribed by doctors for actual treatment. Athletes will also often combine multiple steroids, or will combine steroids and something like HGH (as Bonds did), because the different chemicals may affect the body in different ways. Generally, anything taken outside the supervision of a doctor would be described as abuse by the law, so even small amounts would qualify if not done with a doctor's approval, and with athletes, we're talking about orders of magnitude larger doses.

 

These steriods were not not anabolic steriods. They were steriods for decreasing inflammation of the bronchial tubes such as prednisone. When steriods are taken for muscle gain, a single steriods isn't used. They "stack" them in various combinations for differnet pruposes. They can stack them for bulk such as an O-lineman will use or speed for a wide reciever. Actually the biggest users of steriods are the people trying to increase speed. The track athletes and backs in the NFL are prime exmaples. This is why the IOC has come down so hard on the track athletes because of it's rampant use. The whole Balco issue really started out investigating track athletes such as Marion Jones.

 

I've got a really good book for anyone interested in steriods. I believe it's called Faust's Gold or Fools Gold. I've been looking for it since this topic came up. It's the investigation into the East German women's swim team of the 60's and 70's. When the wall cam down the secret Satsi files became public and this researchers got the records of the steriods these "physicians" were feeding these girls. It's sickening what they did to them and how their lifves have turned out. I'll post it when I find it.

 

I found the book I was referring to. It's called: Faust's Gold: Inside the German Doping Machiene by Steven Ungerleider. It's a good read if you want to be informed about steriods.

Edited October 13, 2006 by ptatc