This "love affair" with Jimenez

[whitesox61382]

"I'm assuming those last numbers are of Jose Valentin or something like that?"

 

Actually they were just random number used to prove a point. I assume that Miles would put up similar numbers to the ones that I made up. I don't understand why everyone thinks a guy with no D, no speed, and no plate disipline is a better option then Jimenez.

 

"Since Jimenez can't turn a good DP and has no range, his errors are more weighty than you think. Have you any idea how many runs he already cost the Sox on the D.? That error in Oakland alone accounted for 3. Compared to him, both Crede and Valentin are gold glovers this season"

 

How many full seasons has Jimenez played at 2nd? Show me how many youngsters come to the majors and are good defensively? Tell me that you don't think Jimenez has the athletism to become a solid defensive player? Tell me that under a manger that would motive him he wouldn't have the ability to improve? Defense is like every other aspect of this game, it can be improved with expereince.

 

"As far as his offense, he needs to out-OPS Willie Harris by a good 70-100 points margin in order to be considered a starter at 2nd. Granted so far he is doing that, but Willie ain't going anywhere, he is hanging ropes all over the place in almost every atbat nowdays and DJ is looking like a shadow of his former self."

 

I am also a big fan of Harris and think that he has a bright future with this team. You don't hit .400+ at AAA for an extended period of time based on luck alone. I love his speed, he is very good defensively at both 2nd and CF, and has decent plate disipline. Why not keep both a motived Jimenez and Harris?

 

"Just say you know nothing--or care nothing-- about "other" eras and be done with it.

 

"Speculation" doesn't have to be an exact science in order to be something legitimate or valid, the fact remains that pitching in Enron or in BPA is a little more difficult....ah forget it, I am sure it will fall on deaf ears.

 

There is nothing legendary about 3.20 career ERA, ok? Compare him to some of his contemproraries if you want. And I couldn't care less about his 5710000000000 SO's just like I caoun't care less about Ripkens record or about Aaron's 750+ homers...."

 

You say that I know nothing/care about other eras and then you say you care nothing about some of the greatest accomplishments in the history of this sport whether for show or not. Pot meet kettle. YOU CAN'T STATE AS FACT THAT PLAYERS WOULD BE BETTER OR WORSE IN A DIFFERENT ERA. It is fun to compare eras and speculate, but i will repeat you can't use that alone to factually say that a player would be better or worse in a different era. There are so many things that you have to take into consideration when comparing eras that you can't logically do it, yet you continue to do so and pretend that it is a FACT that Ryan would have had a higher ERA in the current era. He also played over 3 decades so I think it is safe to say that he played during multiple different eras. Some offensive and some pitching.

 

"1. Sorry I am too stupid to please you. Will you ever forgive me?"

 

We will see. As long as you learn not to use wins and loses to solely make a decision on whether a pitcher is good or not.

 

"2. Wins and losses are what, a matter of, say, production? If baseball is a game based on production, then how do we measure that apart from the final product? Production, product - that would be wins and losses."

 

2 pitchers with the same ERA(similar overall numbers for comparison sake) and one on a team that averages 6 runs a game and the other on a team that averages 3 runs a game. The pitcher on the team averaging 6 runs goes 20-5 and the pitcher on the team averaging 3 runs goes 5-20. You can honestly tell me that the 20-5 pitcher is better because his team scores more runs? That is the point. You get it now or do I have to break it down even further for you.

 

"3. A superior pitcher will triumph over a bad team. Look at Steve Carlton in 1972."

 

You don't honestly believe this do you? Calton is the exception and not the norm. There is only so much that a pitcher can control. He can't control the D behind him or the lack of offensive support, yet he is suppose to overcome it? Do you actually read what you post oldtimer? One of the original points is that Buehlre has pitched better then his record, which only helps prove my point.

 

"I find it a tad amusing when someone who wasn't alive when a player was playing tells me what that player did when I saw that player. Nolan Ryan had a hall of fame career. He stayed in the majors the first part of his career because of his potential, not so much because of what he was actually doing. And his no hit games were amazing but so was his lack of control and his essentially 500 pitching record."

 

Sorry that I am not eligible for social secruity like you(although I wouldn't be bragging about that if I were you). Just because I am younger does that mean that I am any less of a fan or care less about past era or don't follow past eras. You have Eminem on you signature should I assume that because he isn't a major part of your generation that you know any less or more about him then me? Do you realize how bad some of the words that are coming out of your mouth make you look. And just for the record I did watch Ryan pitch towards the end of his career when he was a shell of his former self(remember when Venture charged the mound and got his ass kicked).

 

"4. Try suggesting to Selig and the Cy Young voters that counting wins and losses are "stupid." Maybe you can find a way to talk us into the World Series and Todd Ritchie could win the 2002 Cy Young retroactively."

 

You read what i posted but you failed to take the time to comprehend it because you are so steammed. At no point in any of my post did I say wins and loses aren't important. You assumed that because I called you out and you needed something to form an arguement about. If you go back and look at what I said you will see that. I said that it is stupid to use SOLELY wins or loses to determine how good a pitcher is(see my example above about the 20-5 pitcher and 5-20 pitcher) and at no point did I say that they weren't important. Nice try though oldtimer.

[BrandoFan]

"I'm assuming those last numbers are of Jose Valentin or something like that?"

 

Actually they were just random number used to prove a point. I assume that Miles would put up similar numbers to the ones that I made up. I don't understand why everyone thinks a guy with no D, no speed, and no plate disipline is a better option then Jimenez.

 

"Since Jimenez can't turn a good DP and has no range, his errors are more weighty than you think. Have you any idea how many runs he already cost the Sox on the D.? That error in Oakland alone accounted for 3. Compared to him, both Crede and Valentin are gold glovers this season"

 

How many full seasons has Jimenez played at 2nd? Show me how many youngsters come to the majors and are good defensively? Tell me that you don't think Jimenez has the athletism to become a solid defensive player? Tell me that under a manger that would motive him he wouldn't have the ability to improve? Defense is like every other aspect of this game, it can be improved with expereince.

 

"As far as his offense, he needs to out-OPS Willie Harris by a good 70-100 points margin in order to be considered a starter at 2nd. Granted so far he is doing that, but Willie ain't going anywhere, he is hanging ropes all over the place in almost every atbat nowdays and DJ is looking like a shadow of his former self."

 

I am also a big fan of Harris and think that he has a bright future with this team. You don't hit .400+ at AAA for an extended period of time based on luck alone. I love his speed, he is very good defensively at both 2nd and CF, and has decent plate disipline. Why not keep both a motived Jimenez and Harris?

 

"Just say you know nothing--or care nothing-- about "other" eras and be done with it.

 

"Speculation" doesn't have to be an exact science in order to be something legitimate or valid, the fact remains that pitching in Enron or in BPA is a little more difficult....ah forget it, I am sure it will fall on deaf ears.

 

There is nothing legendary about 3.20 career ERA, ok? Compare him to some of his contemproraries if you want. And I couldn't care less about his 5710000000000 SO's just like I caoun't care less about Ripkens record or about Aaron's 750+ homers...."

 

You say that I know nothing/care about other eras and then you say you care nothing about some of the greatest accomplishments in the history of this sport whether for show or not. Pot meet kettle. YOU CAN'T STATE AS FACT THAT PLAYERS WOULD BE BETTER OR WORSE IN A DIFFERENT ERA. It is fun to compare eras and speculate, but i will repeat you can't use that alone to factually say that a player would be better or worse in a different era. There are so many things that you have to take into consideration when comparing eras that you can't logically do it, yet you continue to do so and pretend that it is a FACT that Ryan would have had a higher ERA in the current era. He also played over 3 decades so I think it is safe to say that he played during multiple different eras. Some offensive and some pitching.

 

"1. Sorry I am too stupid to please you. Will you ever forgive me?"

 

We will see. As long as you learn not to use wins and loses to solely make a decision on whether a pitcher is good or not.

 

"2. Wins and losses are what, a matter of, say, production? If baseball is a game based on production, then how do we measure that apart from the final product? Production, product - that would be wins and losses."

 

2 pitchers with the same ERA(similar overall numbers for comparison sake) and one on a team that averages 6 runs a game and the other on a team that averages 3 runs a game. The pitcher on the team averaging 6 runs goes 20-5 and the pitcher on the team averaging 3 runs goes 5-20. You can honestly tell me that the 20-5 pitcher is better because his team scores more runs? That is the point. You get it now or do I have to break it down even further for you.

 

"3. A superior pitcher will triumph over a bad team. Look at Steve Carlton in 1972."

 

You don't honestly believe this do you? Calton is the exception and not the norm. There is only so much that a pitcher can control. He can't control the D behind him or the lack of offensive support, yet he is suppose to overcome it? Do you actually read what you post oldtimer? One of the original points is that Buehlre has pitched better then his record, which only helps prove my point.

 

"I find it a tad amusing when someone who wasn't alive when a player was playing tells me what that player did when I saw that player. Nolan Ryan had a hall of fame career. He stayed in the majors the first part of his career because of his potential, not so much because of what he was actually doing. And his no hit games were amazing but so was his lack of control and his essentially 500 pitching record."

 

Sorry that I am not eligible for social secruity like you(although I wouldn't be bragging about that if I were you). Just because I am younger does that mean that I am any less of a fan or care less about past era or don't follow past eras. You have Eminem on you signature should I assume that because he isn't a major part of your generation that you know any less or more about him then me? Do you realize how bad some of the words that are coming out of your mouth make you look. And just for the record I did watch Ryan pitch towards the end of his career when he was a shell of his former self(remember when Venture charged the mound and got his ass kicked).

 

"4. Try suggesting to Selig and the Cy Young voters that counting wins and losses are "stupid." Maybe you can find a way to talk us into the World Series and Todd Ritchie could win the 2002 Cy Young retroactively."

 

You read what i posted but you failed to take the time to comprehend it because you are so steammed. At no point in any of my post did I say wins and loses aren't important. You assumed that because I called you out and you needed something to form an arguement about. If you go back and look at what I said you will see that. I said that it is stupid to use SOLELY wins or loses to determine how good a pitcher is(see my example above about the 20-5 pitcher and 5-20 pitcher) and at no point did I say that they weren't important. Nice try though oldtimer.

WS...Please learn the f***ing 'QUOTE' feature.

 

 

Until then your points will be duly noted and ignored.

[BrandoFan]

YOU CAN'T STATE AS FACT THAT PLAYERS WOULD BE BETTER OR WORSE IN A DIFFERENT ERA. It is fun to compare eras and speculate, but i will repeat you can't use that alone

 

I didn't; his 300 losses and 3.20 career ERA are NOTHING to brag about when you are applying for the "greatest pitcher of all time" honor...Compare to his contemproraries ands then do the same for Pedro/Maddux and theirs- this is the standard approach used in all of sports.

 

(Not that my "speculation" about offensive eras and stadiums wasn't warranted, mind you- how many old Texas stadium warning track flyouts are long home runs at BP Arlinton or Enron for instance? And so on...)

 

As far as his Ks go, I already said this once: out are outs just like RBIs are RBIs for hitters. That's why both SO and HR records are virtually meaningless. Cool, flashy but meaningless.

 

(RBI, run, OPS-against, ERA, RC sabremetrics is where I go for "truth".)

[Bmr31]

I didn't;  his 300 losses and 3.20 career ERA are NOTHING to brag about when you are applying for the  "greatest pitcher of all time" honor...Compare to his contemproraries ands then do the same for Pedro/Maddux and theirs-  this is the standard approach used in all of sports.

 

(Not that my "speculation" about offensive eras and stadiums wasn't warranted, mind you-  how many old Texas stadium warning track flyouts are long home runs at BP Arlinton or Enron for instance? And so on...)

 

As far as his Ks go, I already said this once:  out are outs just like RBIs are RBIs for hitters.  That's why both SO and HR records are virtually meaningless.  Cool, flashy but meaningless. 

 

(RBI, run, OPS-against, ERA, RC sabremetrics is where I go for "truth".)

Ive seen Nolan Ryan pitch. In his prime, he was as good or better than pedro and Maddux. You have to give him that and you have to give him the longevity. On the other hand, i wouldnt call him one of the GREATS of all time, cuz he has some s***ty years.

[clujer420]

Sorry that I am not eligible for social secruity like you

 

Nice try though oldtimer.

LMAO!!

[BrandoFan]

In his prime, he was as good or better than pedro and Maddux

 

That's just stupid. You're better than that. Want me to run a quick comp for you?

[Bmr31]

That's just stupid.  You're better than that. Want me to run a quick comp for you?

Nope. When he was at his best, he was unhittable. I dont need stats.

[BrandoFan]

Sorry that I am not eligible for social secruity like you

 

Nice try though oldtimer.

LMAO!!

Ooooh, the searing diss!

 

 

You guys are sad.

[BrandoFan]

That's just stupid.  You're better than that. Want me to run a quick comp for you?

Nope. When he was at his best, he was unhittable. I dont need stats.

Sorry, but reality just doesn't agree with you, out of almost 30 seasons, only 1972 and 1981 can be legitimately called "Pedro-esque". The rest are merely very good.

 

Had he pitched in sandboxes Pedro has to pitch in, Nolan would have El Duke's numbers.

[Bmr31]

That's just stupid.  You're better than that. Want me to run a quick comp for you?

Nope. When he was at his best, he was unhittable. I dont need stats.

Sorry, but reality just doesn't agree with you, out of almost 30 seasons, only 1972 and 1981 can be legitimately called "Pedro-esque". The rest are merely very good.

 

Had he pitched in sandboxes Pedro has to pitch in, Nolan would have El Duke's numbers.

Maybe so. pedro did have some awesome seasons.

[YASNY]

Nolan Ryans 7 no-hitters and 5000+ K's are awesome, amazing stats. He could on any given day be totally unhittable. However, game in and game out, over the course of a season and season in season out, I'd rather have any of the following pitchers ..... Tom Seaver, Catfish Hunter, Steve Carlton, Bob Gibson, Jim Palmer, Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Juan Marichal, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, etc. I have seen Ryan and each of these other ones pitch. No way in hell was Nolan Ryan a superior pitcher to any of these guys. Emphasis on the word "pitcher". Don't get me wrong, Ryan was GREAT. But he was not one of the "Greatest of all time".

 

Before we are all ready to dump Jiminez, I think if would only be fair to give a shot as a SS. That is, afert all, the position at which he has the most experience. We don't know how well he would do, because we haven't seen him play SS.

[whitesox61382]

"WS...Please learn the f***ing 'QUOTE' feature.

 

 

Until then your points will be duly noted and ignored."

 

I know how to use the quote button I just do thinks my way. For example, I did the above solely to mess with you. I have a feeling that people will still read my post no matter what way I quote things, so don't pretend that I would be ignored or use more speculation to come to conclusions that aren't logical. Whether you continue to read my post matters very little to me. I have a good idea that you will still read what I have to write, but not might respond in order to say "I told you so".

 

"I didn't; his 300 losses and 3.20 career ERA are NOTHING to brag about when you are applying for the "greatest pitcher of all time" honor"

 

At no point did I say that he was the best pitcher ever. You and the other oldtimer are putting words in my mouth in order to formulate arguements against me. He is probably one of the top 10 alltime, but I personally don't think he is the best of all time. I was just defending him because people attempted to use his loses to take away from his legacy.

 

"Compare to his contemproraries ands then do the same for Pedro/Maddux and theirs- this is the standard approach used in all of sports."

 

Find me a contempory that was significantly better then Ryan during his prime. How is that any different then Perdo or Maddux? He was the best during his era while in his prime and arguable one of the top 10 pitchers alltime. Most EXPERT would argue with that although you seem to disagree.

 

"(Not that my "speculation" about offensive eras and stadiums wasn't warranted, mind you- how many old Texas stadium warning track flyouts are long home runs at BP Arlinton or Enron for instance? And so on...)"

 

While we are speculating, what would happen to his wins and loses if he played on a better team? There were many times were he was among the leaders in ERA and also loses. Or what if he only pitched 5 innings like the pitcher of this great offensive era. I am sure that there were many occasions were Ryan just ran out of steam towards the end of the game and got hit hard. You can speculate that in this era he might have went 5 or 6 innings more times and been able to let it all out more often and not have to suffer a couple of late beatings. I mean almost 30% of his starters were complete games. How many pitchers can say that in this era? Its funny that you neglect to mention things like this. Its easy to be near sighted and see only want you want to see in order to back your arguement. And by the way, there were a good share of small parks back then as well. Some of the older staduims are currently some of the better hitters parks today(Fenway, Wriggley, ect).

 

"As far as his Ks go, I already said this once: out are outs just like RBIs are RBIs for hitters. That's why both SO and HR records are virtually meaningless. Cool, flashy but meaningless."

 

In a way you contradict yourself. While I believe that HR's and SO's are a bit overrated it is also the best way to accoplish the 2 things you find most important(RBI's and outs), yet you call them meaningless. That doesn't make much sense now does it? Show me a more productive way to drive in runs then hitting a HR's. Do you find it meaningless that most of the RBI leaders usually are among the HR leaders? What is the most sure fire way to get an out? Answer...a strikeout. The only way to get on base with a strikeout is with a WP, but when you put the ball into play there are so many ways to get on base that I don't feel like listing them all. So tell me which is more likely to result in an out, a strikeout or a ball put into ball? So much for being meaningless.

 

"That's just stupid. You're better than that. Want me to run a quick comp for you?"

 

Because someone disagrees with you they are wrong. How near sighted is that of you? Most experts would disagree with you as well. Does that mean that they are all wrong as well? If you have all the answers can you give me the winning lottery numbers?

 

"Ooooh, the searing diss!

 

 

You guys are sad."

 

It was a little joke not meant to be taken personal. I am not one to personally attack someone on a message board. I think that is classless. he mentioned something about me being young and he being old, so I simply called him oldtimer. Nothing personal.

[rafacosta]

f***, man. It's ridiculous how people hates when one player is playing well and just because somebody said that he is lazy is getting on him. DJ has great number for a 2B and leadoff guy, he is a average player on D, but much better player on D than Jose. What's the Jose OBP? .314 with a f***ing .229 AVG. DJ is hitting much better than him. Jose has more errors too, 10 to 6.

 

Without DJ in thiis season, we would be what? 28-41.

 

A lot of guys in here hates him because of personal problems that they had with DJ.

 

I think that DJ will only get better in the coming seasons.

 

Why people dont get on PK's neck???

Because a lot of people in here had never a problem with him.

[YASNY]

f***, man. It's ridiculous how people hates when one player is playing well and just because somebody said that he is lazy is getting on him. DJ has great number for a 2B and leadoff guy, he is a average player on D, but much better player on D than Jose. What's the Jose OBP? .314 with a f***ing .229 AVG. DJ is hitting much better than him. Jose has more errors too, 10 to 6.

 

Without DJ in thiis season, we would be what? 28-41.

 

A lot of guys in here hates him because of personal problems that they had with DJ.

 

I think that DJ will only get better in the coming seasons.

 

Why people dont get on PK's neck???

Because a lot of people in here had never a problem with him.

I'm still waiting for Jiminez to prove to me that he can be the real deal. I'm certainly not anti-Jiminez yet. I'm just not convinced. As for Konerko, he's proven in the past that he can be a solid hitter. I don't give up on a guy for having a bad season. I'm not bashing PK, just like I'm not bashing Buehrle.

 

So, to be honest, I find your anti-Konerko signature as unreasonable as you find the anti-Jiminez posts. But, you are entitled to have and express an opinion just like the rest of us.

[rafacosta]

PK's one of the reasons we have suck, hitting and on the D not so much. DJ is a guy who nobody trusted in him and he is performing well, dont you tihnk??? IMO, he is putting great numbers for guy that almost die. And DJ cost almost nothing to us, PK cost us what, 8 millons.

[YASNY]

PK's one of the reasons we have suck, hitting and on the D not so much. DJ is a guy who nobody trusted in him and he is performing well, dont you tihnk??? IMO, he is putting great numbers for guy that almost die. And DJ cost almost nothing to us, PK cost us what, 8 millons.

With the bat, DJ has been performing well. It's the other aspects of his game, or the lack thereof, that I am concerned about. If he would focus on defense, baserunning, etc. as much as he does on hitting, he'd be a very good ballplayer. Right now, he is still marginal, at best.

 

Yes. PK is part of our problem this year. Still, the dude has PROVEN he can hit major league pitching. I am not ready to just give up on this guy.

[elrockinMT]

Is Jimenez ever going to be a GG? No. Can he be a solid defensive player? Yes. I think Jimenez needs a new manager more then anyone on this team. Someone who will light a fire under him. A player shouldn't need a manger to get him going, but if it means that he develops into one of the top all around 2nd baseman in the league then i could live with it. He has some great potential. Look what he is doing despite the fact that he doesn't play that hard. He is a good enough athlete that he could be a solid fielder. He isn't much worse then Durham defensively. He also has solid speed and 20+ SB potential if he is motivated, allowed to run, and becomes a smarter base runner. He has been in a slump this past week, but he has still been one of the most consistant hitters. Most fans hate the fact that he is lazy, but it is hard to argue with his potential and production, especially in a season where there hasn't been much to cheer about for Sox fans. For the last time Miles isn't the answer. On Jimenez's worst day he is still better then Miles. Heart can only make up for so much lack of skill.

I don't know if Miles is better than Jimenez or not. Has mIles played yet at the big league level? If he has I misses it. But, DJ has and the criticism continues from San Diego to Chicago. Klesko called him lazy in SD. People here call him lazy. Last night on ESPN they showed his error in the 1st inning and Gammons called it a half-hearted attempt at the ball. Why? I guess it's because he is lazy, lackadaisical in his approach, not motivated, no concentration, not familiar with 2B, I just don't know. But, I do know that he is going to have to show improvement and that's the botom line at the big league level. You get those raps for some reason and when it continues from one team to another you start to wonder if the impressions are true. I would like to see Willie Harris tried at 2B or bring Miles up and let's see if there is an improvement. Maybe the Sox think DJ would be a better SS because if we trade Valentin as lots of people think might happen then either Miles or Harris will be at 2B and SS is open.

 

Bottom line is that Jimenez has to pile up the firewood under himself and light it himself and it's nobody elses job. There is no doubt that defensively and on the bases he just ain't cutting it.

[BrandoFan]

DJ has great number for a 2B and leadoff guy, he is a average player on D, but much better player on D than Jose

 

I am sorry rafa but it's statements like that prevent people from taking your baseball posts seriously.

 

If you really think DJ has been anything but "pretty damn bad" on D this season...while Jose has actually imroved his D (notice how he doesn't sail the ball anymore with his new throwing approach he adopted in May) in addirion to having a superior arm, range, DP positioning, effort and clutchness- that Okland dropped ball error with Burly on the mound alone cost the Sox as many runs as Jose 9 errors combined ...Just think about that for a second.

 

And I was actually one of the few DJ supporters back in April and May as well as ST.

[southsider2k5]

I am sorry rafa but it's statements like that prevent people from taking your baseball posts seriously. 

 

If you really think DJ has been anything but "pretty damn bad" on D this season...while Jose has actually imroved his D (notice how he doesn't sail the ball anymore with his new throwing approach he adopted in May)  in addirion to having a superior arm, range, DP positioning, effort and clutchness-  that Okland dropped ball error with Burly on the mound alone cost the Sox as many runs as Jose 9 errors combined ...Just think about that for a second.

 

And I was actually one of the few DJ supporters back in April and May as well as ST.

I was with you Brando. I was a Jimenez supporter as long as he was making the basic plays, and hustling. Now he has quit hustling, has frequent lapses in the field, and now isn't hitting or getting on base.

[whitesox61382]

I am sorry rafa but it's statements like that prevent people from taking your baseball posts seriously. 

 

If you really think DJ has been anything but "pretty damn bad" on D this season...while Jose has actually imroved his D (notice how he doesn't sail the ball anymore with his new throwing approach he adopted in May)  in addirion to having a superior arm, range, DP positioning, effort and clutchness-  that Okland dropped ball error with Burly on the mound alone cost the Sox as many runs as Jose 9 errors combined ...Just think about that for a second.

 

And I was actually one of the few DJ supporters back in April and May as well as ST.

Why do you personally attack everyone Brando? You called one guy stupid because he didn't agree with your opinion on Ryan(although I did something similar but my comment was more about the idea and not the person). Now you tell someone that his ideas aren't respected because you disagree with him. Here is a news flash, not everyone agrees with you, you are not always right, people are welcome to their opinion, they shouldn't be called an idiot for it, and the world doesn't evolve around you. While I might disagree with your OPINION on Mr. Ryan I respect your point of view and don't call you an idiot because I disagree with you. I suggest you do the same thing and remember that we are all Sox fans voicing our opinions. Key word OPINIONS.

[BrandoFan]

I am sorry rafa but it's statements like that prevent people from taking your baseball posts seriously. 

 

If you really think DJ has been anything but "pretty damn bad" on D this season...while Jose has actually improved his D (notice how he doesn't sail the ball anymore with his new throwing approach he adopted in May)  in addirion to having a superior arm, range, DP positioning, effort and clutchness-  that Okland dropped ball error with Burly on the mound alone cost the Sox as many runs as Jose's 9 errors combined ...Just think about that for a second.

 

And I was actually one of the few DJ supporters back in April and May as well as ST.

Why do you personally attack everyone Brando? You called one guy stupid because he didn't agree with your opinion on Ryan(although I did something similar but my comment was more about the idea and not the person). Now you tell someone that his ideas aren't respected because you disagree with him. Here is a news flash, not everyone agrees with you, you are not always right, people are welcome to their opinion, they shouldn't be called an idiot for it, and the world doesn't evolve around you. While I might disagree with your OPINION on Mr. Ryan I respect your point of view and don't call you an idiot because I disagree with you. I suggest you do the same thing and remember that we are all Sox fans voicing our opinions. Key word OPINIONS.

Noooo, WS, you got it all wrong- I deeply cherish and respect the eunuch's opinions.

 

 

(Nice use of the quotation, though. Very commendable.)

[RedPinStripes]

Everybody goes after Jiminez, who, along with Frank, has been one of the few offensive brightspots. OK, fine.

 

But then everyone loves the whiner MB, who does nothing but talk about leaving, and to boot, goes 2 and freakin ten with a 4.85 ERA! Whats up with that?

I dont always kiss mark's ass . Look at SnR. He made "dumbass of the week" . I still like him, but i had to rip him for being an idiot during an interview.

[RedPinStripes]

f***, man. It's ridiculous how people hates when one player is playing well and just because somebody said that he is lazy is getting on him. DJ has great number for a 2B and leadoff guy, he is a average player on D, but much better player on D than Jose. What's the Jose OBP? .314 with a f***ing .229 AVG. DJ is hitting much better than him. Jose has more errors too, 10 to 6.

 

Without DJ in thiis season, we would be what? 28-41.

 

A lot of guys in here hates him because of personal problems that they had with DJ.

 

I think that DJ will only get better in the coming seasons.

 

Why people dont get on PK's neck???

Because a lot of people in here had never a problem with him.

Jiminez better then Jose defensivly? Please re-think that. I'll bet we will see him at SS next year and that will be worse then the Jose Valentin project. they're both butchers.

[CubKilla]

Jiminez better then Jose defensivly? Please re-think that. I'll bet we will see him at SS next year and that will be worse then the Jose Valentin project. they're both butchers.

Maury..... always looking at the bright side.

 

JMHO, but I don't want to see a guy with no range and stone hands at 2B moved to SS on the White Sox anytime soon.

[cwsox]

Jiminez better then Jose defensivly? Please re-think that. I'll bet we will see him at SS next year and that will be worse then the Jose Valentin project. they're both butchers.

Agreed they are both butchers but will have to say in further agreement that there is no way D'Lo is better defensively than St JosE6. For all of Valertnin's errors, on every one he is hustling. D'Lo has laid down on plays. Given a choice of either I'd take St JosE6 everytime.

 

I fear next year will bring back memories of the Bee Bee Richard/Luis Alvarado years. :puke