Brandon McCarthy is not a phenom

[UC76]

OK, I've been holding off on starting this thread because I didn't want to be accused of being "negative." But after last night, screw it.

 

Brandon McCarthy is not a phenom. I'm tired of hearing how awesome and great he is. The fans, media, and even the Sox/Kenny Williams all talk about McCarthy like he's one of the great young arms in baseball. Any trade possibility always came with the sidenote that McCarthy was off-limits because he was too valuable.

 

McCarthy is not a phenom. He's a mediocre pitcher who is still young and has time to improve and maybe be very solid some day. But he is not a phenom.

 

He has not been dominant at any level. Do you remember his stats at Triple A Charlotte before being called up for good last year? They were nothing special. He had a losing record - I think it was just below .500 - and his ERA was above 4.00. Hell, it may have even been above 5.00. Point is, he was mediocre at Charlotte.

 

And he's been mediocre with the Sox. Granted, he had a few fantastic spot starts late last year, and that was awesome, but he also had some awful starts last year. And this year out of the bullpen he been average at best, and at times he has sucked.

 

So let's stop acting like McCarthy is a phenom destined for the Hall of Fame.

 

Liriano is a phenom. Papelbon is a phenom. Jered Weaver is phenom. These are extremely young guys who have taken the majors by storm and dominated. Hell, Jenks is more of a phenom than McCarthy.

 

McCarthy looks like any other young pitcher out there. Sometimes he looks solid, sometimes he looks awful. Yes, maybe someday he'll mature into a fantastic starter, and I hope he does. But right now he's very average and leaning towards bad. Hopefully, someday this changes.

 

But in the meantime, can we please stop pretending like McCarthy is one of the brightest young players in baseball, or like he's some sort of Golden Boy. He's not. He has not dominated at any level. Let's just call him what he is - young and mediocre with the potential to be good someday. That's it. And there are pLENTY of guys like this in baseball right now.

[southsider2k5]

So how many years of scouting have you put in? Who do you write for, BA? ESPN?

[UC76]

So how many years of scouting have you put in? Who do you write for, BA? ESPN?

 

I don't write for anybody. I'm just tired of how we are always bombarded with this mentality that McCarthy is somehow a great young arm. Look, in a few years time maybe he will be a very solid pitcher, maybe even a star. And I certainly hope so.

 

But at this point in time he has been nothing but mediocre at every level. Last night he comes in loses the game within seconds. There are guys out there that I mentioned above who are true phenoms. McCarthy, however, looks more like any other young guy trying to find his way. Which is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. But in the meantime, I'm tired of the star treatment he receives. it's nauseating to hear when the proof has not been in the pudding. Show us something first.

[chisox72]

Are you serious??

 

Give me one example of how B-Mac has been put in a position to succeed...just one....

 

Other than being a career-long starter and thrust into the bullpen (a COMPLETELY different animal all together). He has not adjusted very well and who knows if he will. Bottom line in this, in the starts he had the chance to make last year, he was very good. That start against these same Red Sox was VERY impressive, especially given the magnitude of that game.

 

I am not sure how you can blast him all over hell and back when our manager has CONSTANTLY misused him and he has not really been given much of a shot....

[southsider2k5]

I don't write for anybody. I'm just tired of how we are always bombarded with this mentality that McCarthy is somehow a great young arm. Look, in a few years time maybe he will be a very solid pitcher, maybe even a star. And I certainly hope so.

 

But at this point in time he has been nothing but mediocre at every level. Last night he comes in loses the game within seconds. There are guys out there that I mentioned above who are true phenoms. McCarthy, however, looks more like any other young guy trying to find his way. Which is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. But in the meantime, I'm tired of the star treatment he receives. it's nauseating to hear when the proof has not been in the pudding. Show us something first.

 

Good lord.

 

The guy has a three tough bullpen outings, where he has never pitched out of in his entire life, and he is instantly mediocre. The entire MLB has been trying to trade for this kid for two years now, with Kenny Williams beating off Bmac enquires with a stick, but yet you know more than all of these other GMs about how talented Brandon McCarthy is?

 

I am tired of people thinking they know than any of the people who actually get paid to evaluate and train baseball talent. Why would you think that you have some special insight to the future of Brandon McCarthy that everyone inside of MLB doesn't seem to be able to see?

 

I am also tired of people overreacting based on limited sample sizes. Where was this thread when McCarthy just about singlehandedly rescued the team with 5 1/3 innings allowing only a single run, and giving the Sox enough of a chance to get into the game? By all rights you should have been declaring Brandon the next Cy Young, because after all he did have one good outing.

 

Try some moderation.

[beautox]

moderation FTL, I hear by proclaim McCarthy the next Cy Young.

[witesoxfan]

LOL.

 

There was talk before the season about how McCarthy may struggle while in the bullpen due to him just not having good bullpen stuff, along with his preparation routine as a starter.

 

You look at most relievers and see guys who rely on very good stuff and due to their very good stuff, have good command. McCarthy has good stuff, but it is not otherworldly, and as a starter, he relied heavily upon his command and his ability to control the strikezone and keep hitters off-balance. As a reliever, he never has the opportunity to establish his command, and he is usually thrust into 1-2 inning outings where he is put into situations where he is likely to fail.

 

He cruised through the minors, came up last year in August and September, and shutdown the Rangers and Red Sox lineups when they were at full-strength. He may not look like Santana, Liriano, Verlander, or Bonderman, but he's pretty goddamn good...just not as a reliever.

[Dick Allen]

McCarthy has had a pretty good minor league record. He also was very impressive his last call-up last year ending up with 3 wins and a 4.03 ERA which isn't bad, better than most of the greatest rotation ever assembled's career ERAs.

[UC76]

All I'm saying is that McCarthy has not pitched like a phenom. A 4.23 ERA with 6 losses is very mediocre.

 

Yes, I realize he has had to adjust to the bullpen. And yes, Ozzie may not always use him as best he could. But I don't fully buy this argument. If you're a great pitcher, then you adjust. You move into whatever role you're needed in and you pitch your ass off. Can you pitch or can't you pitch? Well, if you can then go out there and dominate if that's what people say you can do. Come on now.

 

Papelbon isn't a reliver. He was brought up as a starter and is expected to be a starter again. But in the meantime, he has pitched lights out. Dominant. That's what phenoms do.

 

Look, for just a second toss aside the role McCarthy has been in and look solely at what he has done WHEN HE HAS BEEN ON THE MOUND. 4.23 ERA and 6 losses.

 

I'm not saying he isn't good. I'm just saying that, at this point in time, I'm a little disappointed in what we have received from the guy who is supposed to be the Chosen One. I was expecting more from a guy who we were told was the Second Coming. If we weren't spoon fed how great he was then I could just chalk it up to him being a young guy. But he's talked about like one of the best young arms in baseball...but there are young guys out there being dominant and McCarthy has been average at best.

 

Maybe when he's a starter again we will see all the greatness we were promised. I hope so.

 

And yes, I'm still pissed off about last night, which is influencing me.

[Steve9347]

BMINAP?

[Kalapse]

Maybe when he's a starter again we will see all the greatness we were promised. I hope so.

Promised and saw at the end of last year, he was the best the Sox had for the final month, I'd say that's more of an indication of what he's capable of than what he's done out of the pen this year.

 

How did Johan Santana fair out of the bullpen his first time around in that role? 62 IP, 67 H, 7 HR, 40BB:50K, 5.37 ERA. Not very impressive.

[Wealz]

McCarthy is the best pitcher drafted and developed during KW's tenure as GM that's why he gets hyped. He's a solid prospect, if not a phenom.

[witesoxfan]

All I'm saying is that McCarthy has not pitched like a phenom. A 4.23 ERA with 6 losses is very mediocre.

 

Yes, I realize he has had to adjust to the bullpen. And yes, Ozzie may not always use him as best he could. But I don't fully buy this argument. If you're a great pitcher, then you adjust. You move into whatever role you're needed in and you pitch your ass off. Can you pitch or can't you pitch? Well, if you can then go out there and dominate if that's what people say you can do. Come on now.

 

Papelbon isn't a reliver. He was brought up as a starter and is expected to be a starter again. But in the meantime, he has pitched lights out. Dominant. That's what phenoms do.

 

Look, for just a second toss aside the role McCarthy has been in and look solely at what he has done WHEN HE HAS BEEN ON THE MOUND. 4.23 ERA and 6 losses.

 

I'm not saying he isn't good. I'm just saying that, at this point in time, I'm a little disappointed in what we have received from the guy who is supposed to be the Chosen One. I was expecting more from a guy who we were told was the Second Coming. If we weren't spoon fed how great he was then I could just chalk it up to him being a young guy. But he's talked about like one of the best young arms in baseball...but there are young guys out there being dominant and McCarthy has been average at best.

 

Maybe when he's a starter again we will see all the greatness we were promised. I hope so.

 

And yes, I'm still pissed off about last night, which is influencing me.

 

Papelbon has overpowering stuff. McCarthy has NEVER had overpowering stuff.

 

 

So the guy isn't a phenom. That sure as hell isn't gonna stop him from being a damn good starter for the next 10 years. Only he's gonna stop that. Give him a year...hell, give a ton of a guys a year. People talk about trading Vazquez, trading Garland, trading Anderson, trading Garcia, not picking up Buehrle's option...give them some friggin time before we jump to conclusions. Vazquez has been our 2nd best starter in the second half, Garland's been friggin money since his horrendous start, Anderson's been one of the more productive bats in the 2nd half, and while I do agree that Garcia needs to be traded, I've made that judgement based on what I have seen from Garcia all year. People were also talking about not picking up Buehrle's option, but while he never had a month where his ERA was over 11, he's ALWAYS had atleast 1 horrible month every year of his career.

 

That wasn't necessarily directed at you, but the board in general. I'm just completely sick and tired and fed up with people jumping to conclusions because a player has 1 bad game, 1 bad week, 1 bad month, 1 bad half...you need these guys down the stretch, and if you were to constantly change the roster, the team would never gel. Atleast right now, they have the, ehhh, potential(I guess...?) to gel and perhaps make a run. I don't think it's going to happen, but you never know. Come the offseason you can worry about it.

 

(Garcia should have been traded at the deadline. It seemed pretty clear to me and the rest of the board that he had just lost it, but I'm sure KW was fielding offers for him and just didn't get the right one. Atleast with Freddy you know you are going to get consistency, even if it is consistently mediocre)

Edited September 5, 2006 by witesoxfan

[LosMediasBlancas]

Has anyone actually used the term "phemon' to describe B Mac?

'Phenom' and other similar terms get tossed around way too much in baseball. I don't care what a guy does in the minors or even his first two years in the bigs. Until a guy can do it consistently for at least two years at the big league level, I'm not gonna jock him....except for Robert Jenks That's not a crack at B Mac.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I believe that if the Sox put Brandon in the rotation next year and leave him there, he will win 15 a year for us and be an upper end of the rotation starter.

 

Will he be Liriano, Verlander or Santana ? No.

 

But, he can be atleast as good as Garland, Buehrle, Garcia have been in their careers. Why pay $ 10 mil. a year for that when you can get it for almost nothing ?

 

He's clearly not a relief pitcher and doesn't like the role.

[Texsox]

Ah the fickle nature of fans. These 5 guys would lead the Sox to nirvana less than a year ago. This season it's trade them all. Garland, sucked early, get rid of him. Winningest pitcher in baseball the past two seasons, fans wanted him out. Buerhle, trade him. Freddy? Javier? Jose? Trade them all, make room for Brandon. So Bmac comes in, we'll want to dump him in a year or two as soon as he loses two starts in a row.

 

Somewhere between the phenom tag and him being a lousy pitcher based on a couple relief appearances, is probably the truth.

 

Something to think about. If Brandon wins 18-20 games per season for the next 4 years, he'd have the same win total as Garland at the same age.

 

Brandon 7/7/83 6 wins

Garland 9/27/79 80 wins 23 relief appearances

Buerhle 3/23/79 96 wins 25 relief appearances

 

Pick your yardstick. And decide just what kind of career you think this mlb pitcher would have.

[Phuck the Cubs]

PUT B-MAC IN THE ROTATION!!

[RockRaines]

BMAC is better than Freddy and Javy. Putting him in the rotation would improve the team immensely.

[Rowand44]

Bmac will be at least a number 2 starter for this team. There, I said it.

[Texsox]

Bmac will be at least a number 2 starter for this team. There, I said it.

 

After we get rid of Buerhle and Garland, yes he will. It will take a couple/few seasons for him to pull past these two guys for an entire season.

 

One thing that happens as I get older, I stopped getting excited about potential. Guys like Buerhle and Garland excite me. I know they will win 15+ games every season for the next four or five season. Garland excited me because I've watched him mature into a mlb pitcher. I have watched too many can't miss prospects miss. Can anyone say Rauch?

[Rowand44]

After we get rid of Buerhle and Garland, yes he will. It will take a couple/few seasons for him to pull past these two guys for an entire season.

 

One thing that happens as I get older, I stopped getting excited about potential. Guys like Buerhle and Garland excite me. I know they will win 15+ games every season for the next four or five season. Garland excited me because I've watched him mature into a mlb pitcher. I have watched too many can't miss prospects miss. Can anyone say Rauch?

Brandon already proved more in August and September of last year than Rauch ever proved. Brandon is a special talent(and yes I've been saying this forever) and if he was starting this whole year, he would be putting up better numbers than Mark Buehrle with ease, no doubt in my mind.

[greg775]

I hope he'll do a good job as a starter next year.

There are no guarantees.

I just get sick of many giving him a free pass because of how

he's been "misused."

I don't care about that. Like you said he entered the game and seconds later

we suffer a huge defeat.

Our pen is in a bad stretch.

Thornton and MacD lose games against the Twins then this crap from BMac.

[kapkomet]

I do agree with the assessment that Bmac hasn't been put in a situation to succeed. And, I also think he's going to have a rough year or two... but after that, he'll be pretty damn good. Read: Jon Garland.

[Rowand44]

I hope he'll do a good job as a starter next year.

There are no guarantees.

I just get sick of many giving him a free pass because of how

he's been "misused."

I don't care about that. Like you said he entered the game and seconds later

we suffer a huge defeat.

Our pen is in a bad stretch.

Thornton and MacD lose games against the Twins then this crap from BMac.

Seems like you're giving Bobby a free pass from yesterday then. If he doesn't blow the save then Bmac doesn't even pitch.

[Drew]

We haven't seen all of Brandon McCarthy yet. Like Mackowiak playing in center field, he has been misused all season long, with long and inconsistent gaps between appearances.

 

He can't be compared to Liriano or Papelbon or Weaver yet, and the reason for that is they have been put into their accustomed roles and succeeded. Papelbon is a converted starter but has been consistently used. These pitchers have been set up for success. McCarthy has not.

 

As far as Ozzie Guillen is concerned, McCarthy doesn't have a role on this team and shouldn't because he's 'not Cy Young.' He is not going to achieve what we all think he is capable of until he does.