Ozzie's thoughts on Brian Anderson

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uhhh...

 

So instead of doing something logical like posting a 2 month span of OPS, I have to find just one week. Damn, I guess my thinking is just stupid

 

I don't have the time, nor the care, to find a 1 week time period. I found a 2 month time period, and I think that should be plenty suitable, but if not, you win.

 

Oh, so you butted into an argument that maybe you shouldn't have then. I clearly stated one week because that is what was mentioned to begin with. 1 week was always stated. I didn't say you were stupid, but if the shoe fits......

 

That is up to you if you want to find it or not. YOu possibly should not have jumped into the argument if you didn't want to provide the argued data.

[Kalapse]

Uhhh...

 

So instead of doing something logical like posting a 2 month span of OPS, I have to find just one week. Damn, I guess my thinking is just stupid

 

I don't have the time, nor the care, to find a 1 week time period. I found a 2 month time period, and I think that should be plenty suitable, but if not, you win.

I think I'm just done with all this silliness, I never thought the White Sox fanbase was this dense but appaearantly I was mistaken. Time to hit the gym for the next 4 hours.

[Wealz]

The Sox have been playing with the equivalent of the a decent hitting pitcher in the lineup when Anderson plays on the road. See why he needs to be platooned.

[Hideaway Lights]

People are really overreacting to this article

 

Anderson has had a better second half, but even if he is hitting .278 for the second half, that's still not something we should have to live with automatically, especially considering his second half OPS is .749, which is ATROCIOUS for an outfielder.

 

He is also not great at stealing bases. I can't even count the number of times he has been sent with two outs and podsednik up to get a RISP and he's been thrown out by a mile. He's under .500 in terms of SB/SBA.

 

I think Ozzie's point is that he's a mediocre hitter, a mediocre slugger and a mediocre basestealer, and even though he's improved in the second half he cannot rest on those laurels and expect a job to be handed to him next season.

 

Anderson has a lot of work ahead of him, and I think that was the point. Is he a great defender? Sure. His overall offensive game still leaves a lot to be desired. He is still taking bad swings at balls, and he is still not getting good jumps on SB attempts.

 

If I were Ozzie, and I had caught wind that Anderson was considering skipping out of winter ball, I would send the same message. Where are the sources that indicate Anderson has said all along that he was going to winter ball despite what Ozzie thinks?

[Heads22]

The Sox have been playing with the equivalent of the a decent hitting pitcher in the lineup when Anderson plays on the road. See why he needs to be platooned.

 

 

The Sox put a crappy pitcher in LF nearly every day, yet no one gets so worked up about it.

[beautox]

Uhhh...

 

So instead of doing something logical like posting a 2 month span of OPS, I have to find just one week. Damn, I guess my thinking is just stupid

 

I don't have the time, nor the care, to find a 1 week time period. I found a 2 month time period, and I think that should be plenty suitable, but if not, you win.

 

how about a few weeks ago against the angels where the pitched him away away away, and he went 0-22 with like 12Ks.

[hammerhead johnson]

The Sox have been playing with the equivalent of the a decent hitting pitcher in the lineup when Anderson plays on the road. See why he needs to be platooned.

 

If you combine his July and August road splits, he hit .328 (20-61).

 

It look like he's been making plenty of progress.

 

But I agree with Kalapse. Most of you guys are hopeless. It's painful to read.

[fathom]

Ozzie doesn't, but you and White Sox fandom does? Seriously? Come on. You have to be joking. This has to be placed in green, right?

 

I think Ozzie does know and wants him to improve. That is what the article said to me.

 

Please don't think that you know more about the team or the players than a coach does. That is just absurd. You are not there to observe anything that goes on. How could you possibly know more than a coach that does?

 

This argument loses validity when Mackowiak continues to get put in CF.

[beautox]

*correction*

 

ARod went 1-15 with 10K between aug 25-27th against LAA

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This argument loses validity when Mackowiak continues to get put in CF.

 

And you are saying a fan could do a better job and has a better feel for this team than Ozzie does? Because THAT is the argument.

 

Ozzie won a world championship with the White Sox for the first time in 80+ years and fans think they know this team better than he does? Give me an f'n break. You may think you do, but I really doubt you do. There is not one single Chicago White Sox fan that could do a better job with this team.

 

 

QUOTE(beautox @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*correction*

 

ARod went 1-15 with 10K between aug 25-27th against LAA

 

That is a week? Looks like 3 days to me.

 

 

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People are really overreacting to this article

 

Anderson has had a better second half, but even if he is hitting .278 for the second half, that's still not something we should have to live with automatically, especially considering his second half OPS is .749, which is ATROCIOUS for an outfielder.

 

He is also not great at stealing bases. I can't even count the number of times he has been sent with two outs and podsednik up to get a RISP and he's been thrown out by a mile. He's under .500 in terms of SB/SBA.

 

I think Ozzie's point is that he's a mediocre hitter, a mediocre slugger and a mediocre basestealer, and even though he's improved in the second half he cannot rest on those laurels and expect a job to be handed to him next season.

 

Anderson has a lot of work ahead of him, and I think that was the point. Is he a great defender? Sure. His overall offensive game still leaves a lot to be desired. He is still taking bad swings at balls, and he is still not getting good jumps on SB attempts.

 

If I were Ozzie, and I had caught wind that Anderson was considering skipping out of winter ball, I would send the same message. Where are the sources that indicate Anderson has said all along that he was going to winter ball despite what Ozzie thinks?

 

I completely agree. I don't see what everyone is talking about or why they are mad at Ozzie. What did he say? What are you people so pissed off at? I really don't understand. If BA truly did not want to go to winter ball and work, I would be upset with that. If he doesn't go and get work in and try to get better I will not like it at all. He has a lot of tools. He can be a very good player if he works at it.

[fathom]

And you are saying a fan could do a better job and has a better feel for this team than Ozzie does? Because THAT is the argument.

 

Ozzie won a world championship with the White Sox for the first time in 80+ years and fans think they know this team better than he does? Give me an f'n break. You may think you do, but I really doubt you do. There is not one single Chicago White Sox fan that could do a better job with this team.

 

Ozzie had a great feel for the 2005 team, as he almost always put us in a great position to win (except for his use of Marte and Timo). His feel for the 2006 team is pathetic though, and I'm not saying that I could do a better job, but it's pretty naive to say that no person could do anything to help this team besides Ozzie. We're almost 140 games into the season, and Ozzie is making the same mistakes he was during the first week of the season. I will gladly state that he's been the worst manager in baseball during the 2nd half of the season.

[hammerhead johnson]

And you are saying a fan could do a better job and has a better feel for this team than Ozzie does? Because THAT is the argument.

 

Ozzie won a world championship with the White Sox for the first time in 80+ years and fans think they know this team better than he does? Give me an f'n break. You may think you do, but I really doubt you do. There is not one single Chicago White Sox fan that could do a better job with this team.

 

Ozzie is a natural born leader, but that doesn't mean that he's a smart baseball man. Can you see the difference?

 

There are thousands of Sox fans who are capable of making better baseball decisions than Ozzie, but that doesn't mean that they are charismatic enough to lead men into battle.

 

It's like you hopped in your time machine and just arrived here last week. This ain't the 1940s. We have computers and DVDRs and s*** like that. We can see plenty, but we're not leaders of men. That's the difference.

[RockRaines]

Ozzie is a natural born leader, but that doesn't mean that he's a smart baseball man. Can you see the difference?

 

There are thousands of Sox fans who are capable of making better baseball decisions than Ozzie, but that doesn't mean that they are charismatic enough to lead men into battle.

 

It's like you hopped in your time machine and just arrived here last week. This ain't the 1940s. We have computers and DVDRs and s*** like that. We can see plenty, but we're not leaders of men. That's the difference.

Ozzie has always been called a smart baseball man by his peers, former teamates as well as the owner and GM of the teams he has worked for, including ours. I would say that is enough to validate his intelligence IMO.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ozzie had a great feel for the 2005 team, as he almost always put us in a great position to win (except for his use of Marte and Timo). His feel for the 2006 team is pathetic though, and I'm not saying that I could do a better job, but it's pretty naive to say that no person could do anything to help this team besides Ozzie. We're almost 140 games into the season, and Ozzie is making the same mistakes he was during the first week of the season. I will gladly state that he's been the worst manager in baseball during the 2nd half of the season.

 

Where did I say no other person besides Ozzie? I said any White Sox fan. Now if there is a professional manager that is also a White Sox fan, then that is a possibilty. No person posting on this board could. That is fact. Many things can not even be blamed on Ozzie. I can't blame Ozzie for players striking out or groudning into double plays or hitting pop ups in key situations. I can't blame him for blowing late inning leads. I don't see other teams play, but he has not been the worst. He hasn't been as bad as Baker. He hasn't been as bad as that jamoke in Toronto.

 

 

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ozzie is a natural born leader, but that doesn't mean that he's a smart baseball man. Can you see the difference?

 

There are thousands of Sox fans who are capable of making better baseball decisions than Ozzie, but that doesn't mean that they are charismatic enough to lead men into battle.

 

It's like you hopped in your time machine and just arrived here last week. This ain't the 1940s. We have computers and DVDRs and s*** like that. We can see plenty, but we're not leaders of men. That's the difference.

 

No there are not thousands of Sox fans who are capable of making better baseball decisions than Ozzie. It makes you able to manage a team that you don't even know just because you see things on TV and computers? That is asinine. Get back in your time machine.

Edited September 6, 2006 by southsideirish

[fathom]

Where did I say no other person besides Ozzie? I said any White Sox fan. Now if there is a professional manager that is also a White Sox fan, then that is a possibilty. No person posting on this board could. That is fact. Many things can not even be blamed on Ozzie. I can't blame Ozzie for players striking out or groudning into double plays or hitting pop ups in key situations. I can't blame him for blowing late inning leads. I don't see other teams play, but he has not been the worst. He hasn't been as bad as Baker. He hasn't been as bad as that jamoke in Toronto.

 

I will sadly state that the Cubs have played with more intensity during the 2nd half of the season than the Sox. Of course, they have no pressure on them, and have a roster full of rookies who will always show a little more spark than veterans. There's no excuse for this Sox team to be 5 or 6 games under .500 since the ASB, especially because they've had really no significant injuries this season. How do you know how good of a baseball man anyone on this board is though? Again, I'm not saying myself or any particular person knows more about baseball than Ozzie Guillen. I've just never been a fan of the argument "if you know so much about baseball, then why aren't you a manager".

 

Good stuff though southside, I appreciate a good debate.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will sadly state that the Cubs have played with more intensity during the 2nd half of the season than the Sox. Of course, they have no pressure on them, and have a roster full of rookies who will always show a little more spark than veterans. There's no excuse for this Sox team to be 5 or 6 games under .500 since the ASB, especially because they've had really no significant injuries this season. How do you know how good of a baseball man anyone on this board is though? Again, I'm not saying myself or any particular person knows more about baseball than Ozzie Guillen. I've just never been a fan of the argument "if you know so much about baseball, then why aren't you a manager".

 

Good stuff though southside, I appreciate a good debate.

 

Ha ha ha. I couldn't get past your first statement without laughing. I will read the rest later. If that really is the case then I blame the players. The players can't get intense enough to play every single meaningful game to get their asses in the playoffs? That is a lousy bunch of players then. I hardly blame the manager. That is a f***ing lame ass bunch of players.

Edited September 6, 2006 by southsideirish

[southsideirish71]

People are really overreacting to this article

 

Anderson has had a better second half, but even if he is hitting .278 for the second half, that's still not something we should have to live with automatically, especially considering his second half OPS is .749, which is ATROCIOUS for an outfielder.

 

He is also not great at stealing bases. I can't even count the number of times he has been sent with two outs and podsednik up to get a RISP and he's been thrown out by a mile. He's under .500 in terms of SB/SBA.

 

I think Ozzie's point is that he's a mediocre hitter, a mediocre slugger and a mediocre basestealer, and even though he's improved in the second half he cannot rest on those laurels and expect a job to be handed to him next season.

 

Anderson has a lot of work ahead of him, and I think that was the point. Is he a great defender? Sure. His overall offensive game still leaves a lot to be desired. He is still taking bad swings at balls, and he is still not getting good jumps on SB attempts.

 

If I were Ozzie, and I had caught wind that Anderson was considering skipping out of winter ball, I would send the same message. Where are the sources that indicate Anderson has said all along that he was going to winter ball despite what Ozzie thinks?

 

 

First of all, to dispell your comment about Anderson not great at stealing bases with 2 outs. If this is the first time you have seen the whitesox then I apologzie, but the minute they get 2 outs and have a man only on first, pretty much every single time they will run. Now not only have I just a fan have picked up on this, but scouts across major league baseball have figured this out. We have even seen pitch outs with 2 outs and a man on first because its so predictable. Anderson, Dye insert name here have all been getting thrown out at a good clip due to this automatic plan of attack with a man on first and 2 outs. If you see it tonight, they will run it again.

 

How can you make OPS statements when Prancer has been crapping it up in LF all year long. I mean at least be consistant. If you want Brian out because of OPS, then I guess you want Prancer gone also.

 

This guy is a rookie. Remember Crede who couldnt hit a beachball at third base. Maybe if you want to put some blame, start with our SS who continues to hit in the .230s in year what of his career. Or maybe we could direct some anger towards Prancer out "ignitor" who has been rotten for most of the year.

 

Or how about to our pitching staff who has been a pile of crap for most of the year.

 

I dont understand the hatred for a good defensive CF. I realize he isnt the greastest fielder of all time known as Rowand. I mean he cant hit like Rowand, but then revisionist history is great, because people forget because they didnt highlight it on the WS DVD that Rowand was brutal at the plate in the 2nd half. .245 in August, .235 in September. Do you remember that. Well I do. Do you remember that Rowand was pretty much meat on a slider in the dirt on 2 strikes. Like an automatic out. People forget when this same fanbase was calling out Rowand for "causing" Jenks to give up some saves because he misplayed a few balls out in CF late in games against Cleveland.

 

But then again, the minute Brian forgot to smash his face in the outfield, or throw himself on the ground to catch a fly ball that was misjudged and the minute he started off poor at the plate he was doomed in many of the Rowandites who have this rosey memory of Rowand and his three stooges persona.

 

Brian Anderson is a better fielder than we have had in CF in a very long time. His swing is a work in progress, and he needs seasoning. In all the years of bringing prospects up to the show, how many have started to hit from day one. Please name one, because I dont remember them. I dont care if the sox think he should get more ABs, I think he should also. But in 2 years this kid will be something special. Crede was absolutely terrible with the stick when he came up, I was one of the people who wanted him gone. But after eating a ton of crow on this, I can see the same type of raw skills in this kid. And hopefully the Rowanites will allow this kid to learn and get better. Because a CF with Anderson in it is what Ozzie preaches, and that is Defense.

Edited September 6, 2006 by southsideirish71

[fathom]

Ha ha ha. I couldn't get past your first statement without laughing. I will read the rest later. If that really is the case then I blame the players. The players can't get intense enough to play every single meaningful game to get their asses in the playoffs? That is a lousy bunch of players then. I hardly blame the manager. That is a f***ing lame ass bunch of players.

 

Juan Pierre has been busting his ass over the past few months (salary drive), and he's been playing like the way we'd love to have Pods play still. I couldn't agree with you more that this is a lame bunch of players. Paul Konerko is my favorite Sox player ever, but his actions as a captain have been disappointing. T. Hunter is saying how the Twins are TOO amped up to play the Sox. Meanwhile, PK keeps saying that each game isn't important, as there's still a lot of time left this year.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you know how good of a baseball man anyone on this board is though? Again, I'm not saying myself or any particular person knows more about baseball than Ozzie Guillen. I've just never been a fan of the argument "if you know so much about baseball, then why aren't you a manager".

 

Good stuff though southside, I appreciate a good debate.

 

No one here has ever done it. Ever. Managing little league and HS doesn't count. I think I know some baseball and I played through college, however I could never manage from this seat and tell what is right or wrong. I know situations, sure. I know what to do and what you should do during situations in a game. But that is not what makes you a good manager. You have to get a feel for your team. You have to be there day in and day out. You have to know your players and their limitations and how they are feeling at a given time. A lot more goes into any given situation than just knowing the percentages of what to do.

 

Plus I would place more blame on Joey Cora than Ozzie. Anyone that is going to send a huffing and puffing Paul Konerko around third base to score when the cut off man has the ball as he is rounding third base is a moron to me. I'm just sayin'.

 

 

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Juan Pierre has been busting his ass over the past few months (salary drive), and he's been playing like the way we'd love to have Pods play still. I couldn't agree with you more that this is a lame bunch of players. Paul Konerko is my favorite Sox player ever, but his actions as a captain have been disappointing. T. Hunter is saying how the Twins are TOO amped up to play the Sox. Meanwhile, PK keeps saying that each game isn't important, as there's still a lot of time left this year.

 

I don't believe PK when he says those things do you? I don't think that is how they really feel. Plus PK has never seeemed like the rah rah captain type to me. Torri Hunter is that type of outspoken excitable player. PK isn't.

 

 

Juan Pierre or Scott Podsednik? Please there is no comparison. I will take Pierre any day of the week.

[fathom]

No one here has ever done it. Ever. Managing little league and HS doesn't count. I think I know some baseball and I played through college, however I could never manage from this seat and tell what is right or wrong. I know situations, sure. I know what to do and what you should do during situations in a game. But that is not what makes you a good manager. You have to get a feel for your team. You have to be there day in and day out. You have to know your players and their limitations and how they are feeling at a given time. A lot more goes into any given situation than just knowing the percentages of what to do.

 

Plus I would place more blame on Joey Cora than Ozzie. Anyone that is going to send a huffing and puffing Paul Konerko around third base to score when the cut off man has the ball as he is rounding third base is a moron to me. I'm just sayin'.

 

Cora doesn't deserve a job, end of story. You mention the point about knowing limitations, and as you see by my sig, that's my #1 rule of managing. I'm sorry, but continuing to put Mackowiak out in CF isn't putting your team in the best position to succeed. Intentionally walking M. Cuddyer to get to J. Morneau isn't putting your team in the best position to succeed. Neal Cotts was in a stretch where he couldn't retire a lefty to save his life. So what does Ozzie do? He bring in Cotts in huge situations to face the dangerous Morneau. Those results were predictable.

[hammerhead johnson]

No there are not thousands of Sox fans who are capable of making better baseball decisions than Ozzie. It makes you able to manage a team that you don't even know just because you see things on TV and computers? That is asinine. Get back in your time machine.

 

We watch the games, we can review game film, we can keep up with the rest of the league, we can research splits, etc. I know what all of the players on the Sox are capable of. Does Ozzie? That is what I'd like to know.

 

You are playing the "He got us to a World Series and therefore he is a smarter baseball man than any sox fan" card. That is just a tad too simplistic, no? I'm gonna need a little bit more than that. I have witnessed one too many boneheaded baseball decisions to buy into that line.

 

And this whole Anderson thing is flat out embarassing.

[RockRaines]

You are playing the "He got us to a World Series and therefore he is a smarter baseball man than any sox fan" card. That is just a tad too simplistic, no? I'm gonna need a little bit more than that. I have witnessed one too many boneheaded baseball decisions to buy into that line.

 

And this whole Anderson thing is flat out embarassing.

How bout his experience playing actual MLB baseball? Being a successful player? Being called a great baseball man by members of 3 organizations? If anyone on this board can raise their hand and say they have accomplished even one of those, then I would say we are almost as qualified to lead this team.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cora doesn't deserve a job, end of story. You mention the point about knowing limitations, and as you see by my sig, that's my #1 rule of managing. I'm sorry, but continuing to put Mackowiak out in CF isn't putting your team in the best position to succeed. Intentionally walking M. Cuddyer to get to J. Morneau isn't putting your team in the best position to succeed. Neal Cotts was in a stretch where he couldn't retire a lefty to save his life. So what does Ozzie do? He bring in Cotts in huge situations to face the dangerous Morneau. Those results were predictable.

 

I agree with Mack and that situation with Cotts. Mack never should have been placed in CF. However, I think KW could have done something to get us a better CF if this was a problem. Ozzie must have felt like he was helping BA mentally. That is the only thing I can think of. He must have seen something in him from one day to the next and must have been trying to place him in position to succeed and get a positive mental approach going. That is the only excuse I can see for that.

 

Cotts was struggling and then he places him in that situation? I didn't understand that. That was a bad move.

 

 

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We watch the games, we can review game film, we can keep up with the rest of the league, we can research splits, etc. I know what all of the players on the Sox are capable of. Does Ozzie? That is what I'd like to know.

.

 

I'm sure he does. Just because we do, we can manage this team and make better decisions? Impossible. You and I and everyone here has no idea what this team is actually going through. Ozzie knows better than anyone here does. It goes waaaaay beyond what you see on film and games and what research we do time machine boy. You don't have a feel for the team or each and every game.

[hammerhead johnson]

How bout his experience playing actual MLB baseball? Being a successful player? Being called a great baseball man by members of 3 organizations? If anyone on this board can raise their hand and say they have accomplished even one of those, then I would say we are almost as qualified to lead this team.

 

There are stupid baseball players, you know. We see them every day.

 

But I have already conceded that Ozzie is a natural born leader. He just doesn't have the baseball smarts to supplement his leadership qualities. That is it, point blank.

[fathom]

I agree with Mack and that situation with Cotts. Mack never should have been placed in CF. However, I think KW could have done something to get us a better CF if this was a problem. Ozzie must have felt like he was helping BA mentally. That is the only thing I can think of. He must have seen something in him from one day to the next and must have been trying to place him in position to succeed and get a positive mental approach going. That is the only excuse I can see for that.

 

Cotts was struggling and then he places him in that situation? I didn't understand that. That was a bad move.

 

If Ozzie wanted a change made to the roster, KW would have found someone for him. On the bright side, we have less than a month with this current personnel. I know everyone thinks I get on Ozzie for every little thing. Personally, I don't believe I do. If I see a game last night where he puts the team in position to win, then that falls on the team and their execution. I actually thought he managed a great game last night, and he made the proper subs in the 8th inning and even tried a hit-and-run.