And that's a White Sox loser

[fathom]

I heard an interesting comment from Black jack McDowell Saturday when he was broadcasting the game with DJ. A relief pitcher must have a certain mentality going and it's not the same as a starter's mentality. Brandon doesn't have it as a relief pitcher. The kid gives up too many homers and more often than not in atough situatgion he can't get the first batter out. Our bullpen for the most part has done everything they can to lose games,

 

Brandon had a defeatist attitude about pitching out of the bullpen before the season even started.

[santo=dorf]

Hilarious how a previous poster mention Thome recent second half struggles with his "clutchness" by pointing out his BA in those situations.

 

Thome RISP in September: .222/.417/.556

Thome RISP in August September: .333/.444/.733

 

Some of you really need to get your heads examined.

[fathom]

Thome pre-ASB RISP BA: .388

Thome post-ASB RISP BA: .242

 

and just for perspective...

Uribe 2006 RISP BA: .287

 

Stats to ponder. I'm sure everyone has their own aggrivating stats. This one is my personal irk.

 

Santo....is this .242 incorrect?

[Frank the Tank 35]

Santo....is this .242 incorrect?

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/indivi...p;sitSplit1=rsp

 

Updated to .235 post-ASB

[southsideirish71]

For all of the Anderson hate that we see in the threads, how about some crap for Taz Uribe. Who litterally fell over trying to crush a 2 strike pitch with men on. Its bad enough his swing causes him to be unbalanced. Its another thing when he just falls over look stupid.

 

We either need to get Hrniak to work with Uribe again, or we need to send him goodbye.

 

 

One other thing, Anderson on low and away fastball has an identical swing and look to Crede circa 2004 on low and away pitches. Its the same stupid swing, the same stupid one handed follow through, the same stupid result. Can we get Greg to get a new approach with teaching hitters how to deal with stuff low and away. Having someone attempt to pull it is completely and utterly stupid. The minute he is fired, hopefully after this year, can we hire someone from another organization that can teach how to have a clean line drive swing. Stop with the lift and pull crap.

 

Dumb

[Gregory Pratt]

I heard an interesting comment from Black jack McDowell Saturday when he was broadcasting the game with DJ. A relief pitcher must have a certain mentality going and it's not the same as a starter's mentality. Brandon doesn't have it as a relief pitcher. The kid gives up too many homers and more often than not in atough situatgion he can't get the first batter out. Our bullpen for the most part has done everything they can to lose games,

 

Black Jack said that the mentality shouldn't be different for starters or relievers, regardless of role. Their mentality should be simply, "Get outs."

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 10, 2006 -> 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Santo....is this .242 incorrect?

I only mentioned August and September figuring it'd be too hard to split up the july stats, but I missed the split at the bottom.

 

Of course Frank the Tank will not explain how having a .409 OBP and .529 SLG% in RISP in the seoncd half is a "bad" thing :rolly:

[Frank the Tank 35]

I only mentioned August and September figuring it'd be too hard to split up the july stats, but I missed the split at the bottom.

 

Of course Frank the Tank will not explain how having a .409 OBP and .529 SLG% in RISP in the seoncd half is a "bad" thing :rolly:

 

He does have a reputation, and pitchers respect him enough to issue the token walk. It's just frustrating to me when one of your supposed offensive leaders is easily being had with frequency when it matters most. Lately, the norm is either K or roll over the pitch to the second baseman. Lefties are merciless on him. I just expect more consistency from a veteran/leader especially down the stretch in a playoff run. Maybe I got spoiled with his stellar start, and in actually this is what we can expect from him? The thing is, if you look at just his regular pre/post-ASB splits, they're pretty much in line except for the drop off in homers. .298 vs .285 average and .414 vs .416 OBP. Quite simply, he's not getting it done in the clutch NOW when we need it most.

[sweatpants]

Blah,Blah Blah, Ozzie is using Brandon in the wrong role.

 

Im sick of that.

Brandon has one role. Get Outs. That is his role, along with everyone else in the bullpen and the staff. Get outs. Right now, he is not getting it done, plane and simple.

 

There was ALOT done wrong today, but McCarthy needs to step it up, because he isnt helping his cause by getting more time on the mound...

 

Amen to that. I'm sick of hearing these bulls*** excuses too.

[greg775]

Interesting arguments, glad I'm not in the middle of 'em this time.

 

Thome -- If we could knock out some of these lefty starters he wouldn't have to face the lefty 3-4 times a

game. I love Thome's contributions and cannot blast a guy with his production.

McCarthy - Glad to see him get some hate finally. Deep down I think most give him a free ride tho,

blaming Oz "misusing him" even though Oz was provided five starting pitchers this year.

My god, blame KW, not Oz. We had Garland, Mark B, Freddie, Jose and Vaz as our rotation which in the

winter was deemed unhittable. If McCarthy was to make the team he had to be a reliever. Those who blame

Oz for misusing him really irk me.

 

Batting Anderson second would not be a good idea. I love the post from one of ya who said 'I know he's hitting

.290 since the all star break but when does he drive in a key run? Would it hurt him to get a clutch hit

once in a while?'

 

I got blasted for saying our bullpen sucked recently. I'll stand by it. Our bullpen sucks.

Like fathom said, BMac may have single handedly cost us 3 games of late.

 

How we only won 2 versus Cleveland at home with so much at stake is beyond me and yes Oz

gets some blame for that.

[Guest $I Need Money$]

oh well at least DA BEARS WON!

[Whitewashed in '05]

Interesting arguments, glad I'm not in the middle of 'em this time.

 

Thome -- If we could knock out some of these lefty starters he wouldn't have to face the lefty 3-4 times a

game. I love Thome's contributions and cannot blast a guy with his production.

McCarthy - Glad to see him get some hate finally. Deep down I think most give him a free ride tho,

blaming Oz "misusing him" even though Oz was provided five starting pitchers this year.

My god, blame KW, not Oz. We had Garland, Mark B, Freddie, Jose and Vaz as our rotation which in the

winter was deemed unhittable. If McCarthy was to make the team he had to be a reliever. Those who blame

Oz for misusing him really irk me.

 

Batting Anderson second would not be a good idea. I love the post from one of ya who said 'I know he's hitting

.290 since the all star break but when does he drive in a key run? Would it hurt him to get a clutch hit

once in a while?'

 

I got blasted for saying our bullpen sucked recently. I'll stand by it. Our bullpen sucks.

Like fathom said, BMac may have single handedly cost us 3 games of late.

 

How we only won 2 versus Cleveland at home with so much at stake is beyond me and yes Oz

gets some blame for that.

Our bullpen is not deep at all. We have 2 goto guys and a good closer. Once those 2 guys are unavailable what do you do? Next season we NEED some better arms. While Riske's ERA says he's not bad, the real results say otherwise. He's a mop up guy. Everyone else...well... you know.

[qwerty]

I think you have something there. Having Anderson in front of our best hitter should give him good pitches to hit. Problem is, if he doesn't hit, the Sox will likely lose many more ballgames. It is true though, if he can't hit in that situation, then it's time to move him, 'cause he's not likely to get better.

 

Yes, he will never get better offensively if/when he cannot hit in the two hole? Yes, it is unlikely that he will ever be good in the two hitter but he will get better with seasoning.. He will end up being a .260's-low .280's hitter. I do not envision a rapid turn around with his strikeouts... but i do like his potential with his eye. I think he has the chance to walk 60 times in a full season which would be up there with our team leaders.

Edited September 11, 2006 by qwerty

[southsider2k5]

Why in the world would any competent human being start McCarthy in the 9th of a tie game (one that we had to win by the way)? Where was Thornton? Jenks?

 

Then it gets worse as we put Logan and Tracey who are both jokes into the game to make the lead even bigger for "Big Mac" Sabathia and the Tribe.

 

A golden opportunity to pick up another game on Detroit down the toilet again today.

 

In the paper today, Ozzie said both Thorton and MacDougal were unavailable for yesterday's game. I know in my heart that Jenks is still hurt. Riske and Cotts have repeatedly coughed up games in the last month, so who exactly are you turning to in that situation?

 

My arguement used to be that Bmac never got a chance, well that arguement is done. Guillen has put Brandon out there in just about every situation over the last few weeks to see what he was made of, and he didn't show anything. He used him twice in the 10th inning in a starteresque situation where he was out there to suck up innings and keep the team in it in a tie game, and he coughed up both of those games. He used him with runners on to try to stop the bleeding on Saturday and he blew that, and yesterday he tried him again in the ninth to potentially pitch multiple innings if we didn't score and he blew that one too. McCarthy has just killed us in September. I used to wonder why Guillen was hiding him in the pen, and why we didn't see him more often, well as usual, its looking like Ozzie knew what he was doing all along.

 

PS: they're not overrated.

It's just that Ozzie's not putting them in the best possible position to succeed.

 

As I showed, Ozzie has thrown McCarthy out there in just about every possible situation within the last few weeks, and he has completely failed in all of them. The only thing he hasn't done is start, and

 

 

Who do you think we're dealing with here? You honestly want to stretch out MacDougal considering his arm troubles, or his relatively violent delivery? Guillen didn't pitch Logan/Tracey because he hoped to raise their confidence.

 

Extending MacDougal another inning yesterday with a two run lead, with Thornton available, basically left him unavailable this afternoon. He pitched the day before as well.

 

It's that simple.

 

Matt Thornton was also unavailable for today after his minimal outing on Sat, which means he was probably already tired going into that game, which is probably why Ozzie stuck with Mac as long as he did, well besides the obvious of trying to win that game.

 

If you don't like it, leave. We're not hosting a forum just to have people b**** at us.

 

^

No joke. If you have to save up all of this anger for "I told you so" type posts, just leave. If you don't like it here, we don't want you here.

 

Sorry but that was all on Ozzie... you know BMAC struggles with runners on bases... so why in the hell do you put him out there with the bases loaded... he's just not cut out to be a reliever... he needs to get into the rotation RIGHT NOW! Take someone else like Garcia and try him in the pen...

 

I just also mentioned 3 situations where Guillen used Brandon to start off innings, in times where he would have effectively been a starter, coming in with games tied, and him needing to suck up innings to give his team a chance to score and win the game. All 3 of them in a row, he gave up runs in his very first inning out there. Tell me how effective he would be as a starter if he gave up runs in the first inning in every outing?

 

Yeah, I'm done using that argument. After allowing runs in 6 straight appearances, McCarthy needs to be used in mop-up situations only. His stuff is pathetic on the mound right now. I really hope KW knows what he's doing by not trading McCarthy. I hate to say it, but McCarthy and his 3 losses in the last 2 weeks could easily cost us the playoffs this year.

 

Good point. We can safely say that Brandon has had his chance now, unfortunately he did nothing with it. I am almost wondering if we could see a move for a big time leadoff hitter including Bmac now? Guillen obviously doesn't like the kid, and well he hasn't exactly proven Guillen's doubts wrong yet... Could Brandon have unintentionally helped Ozzie get someone else he wants by pitching like this in September?

 

 

Wish I would have caught that, sounds like my kind of guy.

 

Its too bad most of you all are too young to really remember McDowell. He was by far my favorite pitcher from that era. Dude was a really gutty guy, as that is exactly how he pitched. He wasn't afraid of anyone, and wanted the ball all of the time.

[Texsox]

SS, I agree with everything you wrote there with one exception.

 

Painfully, I have given up on Brandon for this season. I still think he's a mlb pitcher and pretty damn close to taking a regular spot in the rotation. This will come off wrong, but I wish there had been a need in June for Brandon to make three or four starts in a row. Have him take spot, not have it hande to him via a trade like Brian Anderson.

 

Ozzie is in a position where he has to guess who may have an ining or two and so far I'm not seeing any bullpen arms out there. This is a team that doesn't overwork relievers, so I can't blame Oz too much for not having bullpen arms in September.

[southsider2k5]

SS, I agree with everything you wrote there with one exception.

 

Painfully, I have given up on Brandon for this season. I still think he's a mlb pitcher and pretty damn close to taking a regular spot in the rotation. This will come off wrong, but I wish there had been a need in June for Brandon to make three or four starts in a row. Have him take spot, not have it hande to him via a trade like Brian Anderson.

 

Ozzie is in a position where he has to guess who may have an ining or two and so far I'm not seeing any bullpen arms out there. This is a team that doesn't overwork relievers, so I can't blame Oz too much for not having bullpen arms in September.

 

Oh don't take that the wrong way. I am not giving up on Brandon, even for this year. I am just wondering with the amount of input Ozzie seemingly gets into player moves, and his dislike for Bmac in the first place, if we could see the unthinkable happen, and see Brandon moved for a guy like Crawford in Tampa. I don't think so, but stranger things have happened. Just ask Jeremy Reed and Aaron Rowand.

[Texsox]

You always deal from surplus to fill a hole and starting pitching seems to be our surplus. He may be the "odd man out", but a lot of factors come into play. Sadly, as we know, not all are on the field.

[Heads22]

I just also mentioned 3 situations where Guillen used Brandon to start off innings, in times where he would have effectively been a starter, coming in with games tied, and him needing to suck up innings to give his team a chance to score and win the game. All 3 of them in a row, he gave up runs in his very first inning out there. Tell me how effective he would be as a starter if he gave up runs in the first inning in every outing?

 

 

 

He'd be half our starting staff.

[southsider2k5]

He'd be half our starting staff.

 

So sad, so true

[Balta1701]

Oh don't take that the wrong way. I am not giving up on Brandon, even for this year. I am just wondering with the amount of input Ozzie seemingly gets into player moves, and his dislike for Bmac in the first place, if we could see the unthinkable happen, and see Brandon moved for a guy like Crawford in Tampa. I don't think so, but stranger things have happened. Just ask Jeremy Reed and Aaron Rowand.

If Kenny Williams were to make a movie like that...trading away McCarthy next season...while holding on to 5 high priced starters, 2 of whom have expiring contracts after 2007...my time praising his work as GM would rapidly come to an end.

 

Getting a Crawford might win us a lot of games in 2007. But if the starting pitching struggled again...we'd find ourselves basically in the point at the end of 2007 of having to literally do a firesale just to try to rebuild. Otherwise, we'd be trying to find a new outfielder to replace Dye (doubtful we'd be able to hold onto Sweeney in such a deal, IMO), a new 2nd baseman, and at least 2 starting pitchers all on the Free Agent market, at the same time as Uribe, Garland, Crede, and a couple others get even more expensive.

 

With the amount of $ that we're spending now, we can build a team that can contend every single year, with the one caveat that we need to occasionally work in a couple of young guys so that we can afford the veterans. If we don't do that, then the other option is to imitate the 2006 Cubs.

[LVSoxFan]

I've always sort of rooted for BMac but I think he's terrible. He has not impressed me at all this year.

 

His stuff just seems flat and easily hittable.

 

I'll even go out on a limb and say when it comes to "stuff", I'm far more impressed with Vasquez than Brandon. At least with Vasquez you can see why he's major league, despite his problems this year.

 

The other thing I notice is it seems that BMac gives up homers like mad.

 

Ain't it just typical of this season, though? First our starters wobble but our offense props them up. The last month or so the starters have been pretty good but then the offense goes AWOL (like yesterday). Now the bullpen is blowing solid performances by starters.

 

Sorry, but Javy's been good lately and he was good yesterday. Yeah he gave up two in the sixth but came back for the seventh. So basically the game was back to 0-0, and we could not score one run.

 

What REALLY red-flagged it for me, though, was Saturday. For us to be crushing them 10-1 and then give up SEVEN runs in one inning from our BULLPEN?

 

!!!!!

 

Or, Friday, where Jenks gave up, what? Four consecutive doubles?

 

Now THAT worries me...

[Balta1701]

The one thing about Brandon this season is that as a reliever, he's really not getting the chance to use his full arsenal that well. His best pitch is the changeup...it sets up every other pitch. But if he's coming out of the bullpen and just trying to throw strikes, he winds up being mainly a fastball/curveball pitcher, and that fastball is too straight and too slow for people to not hit it if they're looking at it.

 

Also, I haven't seen much of that 2-seamer he was supposedly working on last offseason as far as I can tell.

[alexgtp]

Strong supporter of OZZIE here.

 

But enough is enough.

 

 

RANT ON/

 

 

Your complete lack of handling your bullpen is killing this teams chances of making the post season. Why do you insist on this nonsense lefties ve lefties and righties vs righties matchups! Because of this ridiculous notion you have we have blown many games. Please for the sake of this team use the person who is shutting ppl down and or on a hot streak . Be it thorton, jenks and or macdougal.

 

 

Because Tracey, Cotts ,Bmac, and Heager are obviously not hot right now!

 

 

RANT OFF/

[Heads22]

I'll even go out on a limb and say when it comes to "stuff", I'm far more impressed with Vasquez than Brandon. At least with Vasquez you can see why he's major league, despite his problems this year.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone ever claimed Brandon has better stuff than Javy.......Javy's problem has always been putting it together.

[LVSoxFan]

Strong supporter of OZZIE here.

 

But enough is enough.

RANT ON/

Your complete lack of handling your bullpen is killing this teams chances of making the post season. Why do you insist on this nonsense lefties ve lefties and righties vs righties matchups! Because of this ridiculous notion you have we have blown many games. Please for the sake of this team use the person who is shutting ppl down and or on a hot streak . Be it thorton, jenks and or macdougal.

Because Tracey, Cotts ,Bmac, and Heager are obviously not hot right now!

RANT OFF/

 

I agree with this. I don't think I've ever seen a team where this lefty/righty stuff is so over-thought.