Blow it up....

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I am in favor of KW blowing up this team while the value is high on many of or players.

 

It's apparent that this team is too slow and needs more energy in the offense.

 

Also, why pay starting pitchers $ 10 mil. each when they are average ?

 

What could we get if we traded Konerko, Crede, Uribe, Pods, Garcia, Buehrle and Vazquez ?

 

I say keep Dye, Anderson (CF, LF or 4th OFer), Iguchi, Thome, A.J., Cintron and Mackowiack (only until Sweeney is ready, mid-season hopefully).

 

Keep Garland, Contreras, Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Broadway, McCarthy, Cotts and Haeger. Broadway in Charlotte.

 

Add a SS that can run and get on-base. Add a LF or CF with lots of speed. Let Fields play 3B. Find a first baseman with speed and a bat.

 

Trade for some young power arms. Put McCarthy and Haeger in the rotation.

 

Some players I would like to see in a Sox uni would be Rollins, Crawford, Wells, M. Young, Ichiro, Nomar etc..

 

Anyone with me on blowing this team up ? Any thoughts on what we can get for some of these guys ?

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

I am in favor of KW blowing up this team while the value is high on many of or players.

 

...

 

What could we get if we traded Konerko, Crede, Uribe, Pods, Garcia, Buehrle and Vazquez ?

...

 

Some players I would like to see in a Sox uni would be Rollins, Crawford, Wells, M. Young, Ichiro, Nomar etc..

 

I thought this forum was about the team in real life, not MVP Baseball 2005.

 

Yes, it sucks the way the team has played lately, but as inconsistent as they've been, they're only a few games (think of the games the bullpen blew or a SP giving up 1 extra run) off from the best record in the league. A few tweaks and this team will be fine IMO. The offense getting dissed as slow is being based on a dry spell these last couple weeks, on what otherwise was one of the best offenses in the league. Pitching (esp bullpen) is the #1 priority for me

[Kalapse]

So who exactly is your speedy 1B with a bat?

[Soxbadger]

Ricardo "No Neck" Pastrana of course Kalapse.

[RockRaines]

Ricardo "No Neck" Pastrana of course Kalapse.

I prefer David "El Cazador" Candelas

[LVSoxFan]

I'm not sure if I'm ready to reboot just yet just because this season didn't pan out. Record-wise, we've been 20 games over .500 all year. In most years that's the division and we're happy.

 

This year the Tigers have been out of their minds and the Piranhas made a Cleveland-like second half run while we went sub-.500.

 

Just a weird year, that's all. Nothing has seemed to click at any one time. So the question is: do you dismantle a good "on-paper" team for the unknown, or do you merely tweak that team with things that it's lacking?

 

For a year at least, I'd say the latter. I don't think the overall team needs to be detonated, but there are certainly some players that need to go: #1 among them, Podsednik. He was the poster child for smallball in 2005 and the poster child for AWOL smallball in 2006.

 

But to go nukular (sic) just because we didn't repeat I think is a little rash.

[RockRaines]

I'm not sure if I'm ready to reboot just yet just because this season didn't pan out. Record-wise, we've been 20 games over .500 all year. In most years that's the division and we're happy.

 

This year the Tigers have been out of their minds and the Piranhas made a Cleveland-like second half run while we went sub-.500.

 

Just a weird year, that's all. Nothing has seemed to click at any one time. So the question is: do you dismantle a good "on-paper" team for the unknown, or do you merely tweak that team with things that it's lacking?

 

For a year at least, I'd say the latter. I don't think the overall team needs to be detonated, but there are certainly some players that need to go: #1 among them, Podsednik. He was the poster child for smallball in 2005 and the poster child for AWOL smallball in 2006.

 

But to go nukular (sic) just because we didn't repeat I think is a little rash.

You are correct, and the knee jerk people on this site will continue to try and say that this team needs to start over etc etc. Fact is, we are still a very good team. We havent gotten the breaks this year, and thats that. One thing we need to address is LF, and our SP. If we move a few pieces around, keep together the very dangerous middle of the order, we will be just fine heading into next year.

[southsider2k5]

I honestly believe if the same team essentially takes the field next year, they will win the AL Central. I truely believe this team is hurt and exhausted right now. Think about the injuries that have come out during the last month, and then factor in the innings that have come out of some of our pitchers.

 

Heck here are the injuries alone off of the top of my head, and I am sure I am missing some...

 

Jenks-hip

Buehrle-back

Konerko-back

MacDougal-shoulder

Bmac-shoulder

Contreras-back

Dye-back/hammy

Thome-hammy-wrist

Pods-hammy

Politte-rotator cuff

Hermanson-back

 

Then you look at Garcia who between the season, the playoffs and the WBC probably through something like 300 innings worth of work in the last year, Buehrle was probably close to that as well... both of their velocities were way down. Contreras after logging record innings has had his velocity down.

 

Give these guys a full winter to get healthy and I think we are going to be surprised at what returns.

[ZoomSlowik]

Ricardo "No Neck" Pastrana of course Kalapse.

 

Screw that, give me Hiram "The Sledgehammer" Adams.

[cgaudin]

There ain't much to add to this team. Two new starters, a SS, and a left fielder, or put Dye in the DH and get another outfielder. Don't get me wrong, I like Jim Thome, but he is a primary reason why this team became one-dimensional on offense. He is worth a lot now. Dump him and get something good in return. We may need to retool the bullpen arms, as well. I like the two kids Sweeney and Fields. We should give at least one of them a shot. If Crede re-signs cheap we should keep him. If he asks for Ft. Knox then we should trade him also. Crede can bring top talent.

[Kalapse]

There ain't much to add to this team. Two new starters, a SS, and a left fielder, or put Dye in the DH and get another outfielder. Don't get me wrong, I like Jim Thome, but he is a primary reason why this team became one-dimensional on offense. He is worth a lot now. Dump him and get something good in return. We may need to retool the bullpen arms, as well. I like the two kids Sweeney and Fields. We should give at least one of them a shot. If Crede re-signs cheap we should keep him. If he asks for Ft. Knox then we should trade him also. Crede can bring top talent.

You mean why this team became good offensively as opposed to sucking ass like they did last year?

[SnB]

this team will be right back in it with a few additions in the offseason.......and when I few, I mean "few".

 

Alot of our guys underachieved last year, I don't think that'll again next year.

 

Improve our LF situation, maybe our SS situation, and stock up on some relievers and we're a favorite next year again.

 

 

Blow up the team, gimme a break.

[ZoomSlowik]

There ain't much to add to this team. Two new starters, a SS, and a left fielder, or put Dye in the DH and get another outfielder. Don't get me wrong, I like Jim Thome, but he is a primary reason why this team became one-dimensional on offense. He is worth a lot now. Dump him and get something good in return. We may need to retool the bullpen arms, as well. I like the two kids Sweeney and Fields. We should give at least one of them a shot. If Crede re-signs cheap we should keep him. If he asks for Ft. Knox then we should trade him also. Crede can bring top talent.

 

I disagree strongly. Thome has the highest OBP on the team by a good margin, is the team's only real left-handed threat, and is still posting great numbers. The only thing you do by removing Thome is take runs off the board. The reason the team became "one-dimensional" in the second half is that Podsednik has been awful, and Iguchi wasn't much better. Those are the only even remotely small-ball style players on the roster. Those guys were the only real "small-ball" player we had all of last year too, and that didn't seem to stop us. People forget that we hit a ton of homers last year too. The difference was that our pitching was a lot better so our offense didn't have to do as much.

 

Besides, that isn't really an important part of contending. The Yankees and Red Sox are far from small-ball teams, and they've posted great offensive numbers and made the playoffs basically every year recently, and their pitching usually hasn't been that great either. We'd have done the same thing this year if we played in the NL or if our pitching was even remotely good.

[Balta1701]

this team will be right back in it with a few additions in the offseason.......and when I few, I mean "few".

 

Alot of our guys underachieved last year, I don't think that'll again next year.

 

Improve our LF situation, maybe our SS situation, and stock up on some relievers and we're a favorite next year again.

Blow up the team, gimme a break.

Ok, here is the other side of that token.

 

At the end of 2007, these guys are Free Agents (barring contract extensions):

 

Mark Buehrle

Jermaine Dye

Freddy Garcia

Tadahito Iguchi

 

At the end of 2008, these guys are Free Agents:

Jim Thome

Javier Vazquez (I think)

Joe Crede

Juan Uribe ($5 m option for this year, $500,000 buyout if not)

Jon Garland

Mike Macdougal

 

In other words, within 2 years, a lot of the guys on this team are going to need to be extended or moved, including 4/5 of our starting pitching staff. That is a lot of holes to fill.

 

We have 4 guys who are free agents at the end of next season. If we can not sign them, we may put ourselves in a significantly better situation for the long term by moving them this offseason and stockpiling talent, especially if we can get young pitching back for them.

 

I'm not sure if I'm in favor of a complete blow up. But if the right deals are offered, I would not be opposed to it. But that is only if the right deals are offered...think about us picking up the talent the Marlins were able to stockpile from a few big deals, but also having $100 million to spend. That would be one hell of a team for 5-6 years.

 

I will say this...because of the contract situation, unless we only are offered garbage back, Freddy Garcia should be moved this offseason, because he will almost certianly bring back a higher price than the draft picks we'd get when he leaves. But more importantly, either Mark Buehrle must be resigned this offseason to an extension, or he must be traded. Mark Buehrle is the most valuable trading chip on this team to almost every team in baseball. Right now, he could fetch a price much, much more valuable than the draft picks we would get if he left. Top of the league talent, maybe even multiple players at the top of the league. This team will be sabotaging the next 5 years if he goes into next season with the White Sox and no extension. If you don't think he'll ever return to the 2005 form, then you must trade him before the winter is up.

Edited September 19, 2006 by Balta1701

[SnB]

Balta, I see your point, but you have to also think that next year is possibly the best chance we're going to have at another championship for awhile. I'm all for going all out for next year and seeing where that takes us.

 

You can only plan for the future so much, when the opportunity is there, which it will be next year, you gotta take advantage of it.

[Brian]

Balta, I see your point, but you have to also think that next year is possibly the best chance we're going to have at another championship for awhile. I'm all for going all out for next year and seeing where that takes us.

 

You can only plan for the future so much, when the opportunity is there, which it will be next year, you gotta take advantage of it.

 

Phenominal post.

[sircaffey]

The last time we blew up the team, we won a World Series title.

[Balta1701]

Balta, I see your point, but you have to also think that next year is possibly the best chance we're going to have at another championship for awhile. I'm all for going all out for next year and seeing where that takes us.

 

You can only plan for the future so much, when the opportunity is there, which it will be next year, you gotta take advantage of it.

On that point I agree, but I will say this; it's not worth sacrificing the next 8 years to win next year. In other words, if we want to win next year, we should be smart about it. It is terrible strategy to just allow free agents at the level of Mark Buehrle and Freddy Garcia and Jermaine Dye walk in exchange for draft picks. If 1 or 2 of those 4 end up walking for draft picks, that's tolerable. Not ideal, but tolerable. But we simply can't afford to have 3 or 4 of them walk and just wind up loaded on 2nd round draft picks. Not with the talent they have.

 

If Mark Buehrle can not be resigned, he can not be with this team on opening day next year. Whether you think this season is an abberation or is the norm for Buehrle from now on only affects how much you offer him for an extension IMO. He is a guy who was in the top 10 pitchers in the big leagues for 3-4 years, and is coming off of 1 down year. He can bring you a King's ransom right now on the trading block, which compared with a couple of draft picks is huge.

 

I personally would prefer to resign Mark if he can be had for about $12 m a season or under, because I think this year is just an off year and he'll be back on top next year. If you disagree with me that's fine. But either way, he can not be allowed to enter next season on the White Sox without a contract extension.

 

Garcia and Dye are at another level...where because of their age and their performance in 06, I'd be willing to accept them possibly staying if the right deal does not come along, and only being lost for draft picks. But if the right deal comes along, you have to be open to selling them, to simply make the team better. If we could load up on young pitching and young talent by trading all 4 of those guys, if none of them can be extended, I would not be opposed. We would be better in 2008 on having traded all of them for the right talent than we would if we let them all walk, and as the Marlins and a few others have shown, if we get the right talent back for them, we might be better in 07 too.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 19, 2006 -> 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So who exactly is your speedy 1B with a bat?

 

 

Nomar is one. I'm not suggesting that we trade every one of the players that I mentioned but the ones that we could really get something special for, I would be willing to move.

 

I don't think that we are as close as some people do to winning this division which I believe is the toughest EVER.

 

Cleveland, Detroit and Minnesota are killing us with their minor league systems and good young cheap talent.

 

The Sox need to replenish their system with some big time arms.

 

Also, it is hard to play situational baseball and / or Ozzie ball with Konerko, A.J., Crede and Thome all so slow and hitting into lots of double plays.

 

Uribe, A.J. and Crede rarely take a walk. Few guys that we have go from first to third well and that's why we have so many innings of getting 3 hits or 3 hits and a walk and we don't score. That doesn't happen with Minny or Cleveland.

 

I think KW will unload a masher or two to get some speed into this lineup. Also, we have to be more prepared with our bullpen this winter. We can't wait till the spring to start having bullpen tryouts for every castoff we can find. We need atleast one more veteran reliever to help stabilize this pen.

 

Obviously, atleast one starting pitcher will go. And, as someone else pointed out, many of our guys have only a year or two left on their contracts and this winter might be the best time to move them.

[ZoomSlowik]

The last time we blew up the team, we won a World Series title.

 

I don't really see how we "blew the team up" before 2005. We dealt one player, and we lost another to FA. Most of your key players were already on the roster, including 4/5 of the rotation and 5/9 of our starters.

[SinkingShip06]

You are correct, and the knee jerk people on this site will continue to try and say that this team needs to start over etc etc. Fact is, we are still a very good team. We havent gotten the breaks this year, and thats that. One thing we need to address is LF, and our SP. If we move a few pieces around, keep together the very dangerous middle of the order, we will be just fine heading into next year.

 

I disagree. this team has gotten a s***LOAD of breaks this year. the difference is that they have not capitalized on them. GIDP. that's what they do. we need bullpen help. we need a new SS, LF, CF, leadoff man, manager, 3rd base coach, hitting coach, so um yeah. not much to change is there?

[Balta1701]

I disagree. this team has gotten a s***LOAD of breaks this year. the difference is that they have not capitalized on them. GIDP. that's what they do. we need bullpen help. we need a new SS, LF, CF, leadoff man, manager, 3rd base coach, hitting coach, so um yeah. not much to change is there?

We do not need a new CF. We need Ozzie to actually play our current CF.

[ZoomSlowik]

I disagree. this team has gotten a s***LOAD of breaks this year. the difference is that they have not capitalized on them. GIDP. that's what they do. we need bullpen help. we need a new SS, LF, CF, leadoff man, manager, 3rd base coach, hitting coach, so um yeah. not much to change is there?

 

Really, where are all these breaks that you speak of? I've seen an awful lot of hard-hit balls right at people, while the other team seems to get a 2-out bleeder or weak flyball in the right spot to drive in some runs. Last year that type of stuff wasn't happening for us. Plus two of the 5 teams in baseball with a better record than us happen to reside in our division.

 

I fail to see how the #2 offense in baseball needs all those changes. Okay, Pods is clearly an issue and needs to go. But centerfield isn't that dire and Uribe is passable. You don't even mention the biggest change needed and that's the starting pitching. In fact, if our pitchers were anywhere near as productive as they were last year we wouldn't be having this discussion because they'd have about 95 wins by now.

Edited September 19, 2006 by ZoomSlowik

[WHITESOXRANDY]

If we are going to keep "Waving" Joey Cora as our third base coach, we better get some guys that can run.

 

I've never seen so many guys thrown out at the plate in my life. The wildest thing is that it's been Konerko more than anybody. Does Cora not know what a stop sign is ? Does he not know what every Sox fan knows - that Konerko is one of the slowest players in the game ?

 

Between getting caught stealing and getting thrown out trying to take the extra base with all these slow guys - it has really hurt the offense. If your going to slug it out with a slow group then don't try to steal bases and send them to try for the extra base - let them hit.

[SinkingShip06]

Really, where are all these breaks that you speak of? I've seen an awful lot of hard-hit balls right at people, while the other team seems to get a 2-out bleeder or weak flyball in the right spot to drive in some runs. Last year that type of stuff wasn't happening for us. Plus two of the 5 teams in baseball with a better record than us happen to reside in our division.

 

I fail to see how the #2 offense in baseball needs all those changes. Okay, Pods is clearly an issue and needs to go. But centerfield isn't that dire and Uribe is passable. You don't even mention the biggest change needed and that's the starting pitching. In fact, if our pitchers were anywhere near as productive as they were last year we wouldn't be having this discussion because they'd have about 95 wins by now.

 

your idea of 2 out bleeders is EXECUTION. not breaks. if you say they didn't get any breaks this year, you haven't been watching.