BridgeportHeather Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 I can read about it adnausium, but I can never actually feel how bad the 1970 season was for the Sox. Supposedly it was the worst year in Sox history. Would those of you who lived through it be as descript as possible about everything about that season for those of us younger Sox fans here who either weren't born then or were too young to have remembered it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 I have done a very thorough job of totally erasing that season from my memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 The Sox began a three year slide in 68, bottoming out in 70. Attendance was below 500000 for the whole year!! The Cubs were one year removed from the "miracle on Addison Street" that turned in to the "choke" of 69. After being down for so many years the media was feasting on the cubs "success". On paper the Sox didn't look that bad. Looie Aparacio, who was in his second incarnation at SS hit a career high .313. Bill Melton hit a team record 33 HRs. Still the year was a total disaster. When they hit they didn't pitch, and when they pitched they didn't hit. The fielding was abominable much of the time, although Aparacio and Bobby Knoop at second were decent. The Sox did lead the league in DP's. They were dead last in team ERA. Long time 1b coach Don Gutteridge had been promoted to MGR, a nicer guy you wouldn't want to meet but totally overmatched as a field general. The team did have some colorful characters. One of my favorites was Walt (No Neck) Williams. However two guys that typified the 70 team were SP Jerry Janeski and utility infielder Syd O' Brien. Mention those names to any old time Sox fan and they'll know what you're talking about. At least they can tell their grandkids they made to the big leagues. Having a rotten team was the least of Sox fans worries . There was still talk of moving the team. Milwaukee, Dallas and Denver were prominent among the cities mentioned. One good thing about that year, if you were one of the few and the brave who ventured to Comiskey you could pretty much sit wherever you damn well pleased. The season did end on a hopeful note. Chuck Tanner was named manager in mid September. The team finished the season 3-13 under him but you could tell there were going to be big changes. Sox fans had hope for the future. I do not have that hope for the franchise today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 That season was an absolute and total morgue. 1976 was not much better, but 1970 was incredibly awful and I was a nine year old at the time, living about 10 blocks from the ballpark and suffering through the summer. I remember Walt Williams, Bill Melton and I believe Carlos May being bright spots. Attendance was abysmal. I think in 1970, they had the artificial infield turf thing going, but I can't remember for sure. There still was a cloud over the franchise in terms of ownership and possible relocation, although the Milwaukee situation was settled as the Pilots became the Brewers in 1970. There were always lots and lots of free tickets available at McGuane Park, which was right across the street. The Sox used to hold player clinics there and the PR guy always had a stack. They were so bad, many times he couldn't even give them away. I was still too young to go without an adult and none of the adults wanted to go. When Tanner took over in September, that was the only ray of hope. 1971 was better, and 1972 was a fun year. But 1970? Yikes. What a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 The Sox began a three year slide in 68, bottoming out in 70. Attendance was below 500000 for the whole year!! The Cubs were one year removed from the "miracle on Addison Street" that turned in to the "choke" of 69. After being down for so many years the media was feasting on the cubs "success". On paper the Sox didn't look that bad. Looie Aparacio, who was in his second incarnation at SS hit a career high .313. Bill Melton hit a team record 33 HRs. Still the year was a total disaster. When they hit they didn't pitch, and when they pitched they didn't hit. The fielding was abominable much of the time, although Aparacio and Bobby Knoop at second were decent. The Sox did lead the league in DP's. They were dead last in team ERA. Long time 1b coach Don Gutteridge had been promoted to MGR, a nicer guy you wouldn't want to meet but totally overmatched as a field general. The team did have some colorful characters. One of my favorites was Walt (No Neck) Williams. However two guys that typified the 70 team were SP Jerry Janeski and utility infielder Syd O' Brien. Mention those names to any old time Sox fan and they'll know what you're talking about. At least they can tell their grandkids they made to the big leagues. Having a rotten team was the least of Sox fans worries . There was still talk of moving the team. Milwaukee, Dallas and Denver were prominent among the cities mentioned. One good thing about that year, if you were one of the few and the brave who ventured to Comiskey you could pretty much sit wherever you damn well pleased. The season did end on a hopeful note. Chuck Tanner was named manager in mid September. The team finished the season 3-13 under him but you could tell there were going to be big changes. Sox fans had hope for the future. I do not have that hope for the franchise today. you failed to mention John The Hawaiian Pineapple Mattias - so you lose. Some plac e where our memories fail is that every one, myself included, remembers us almost losing the team to Milwaukee in 1970 but we are all wrong the Pilots moved from Seattle to Milwaukee at the end of the 1969 season - check 1970 attendance and there they are in Milwaukee, in 1969, in Seattle attendance I do remember abundent rumors of us losing the Sox and making my friends go with me game after game - so we must have losing them to Denver or elsewhere because I remember the need to save the Sox for Chicago - I think we think of Milwaukee because we almost lost the Sox to Milwaukee at the end of 1969 or early 1970 and were relieved when it was the Pilots that moved and not us - I don't recall that much lead time at all for that franchise moving - that was also the year that the Left Stand Grand Stand Fan Club first got talked about - hell, we had not much else to do in 1970 than organize a cheering section! I remember eating a ton of chicken from the chicken stand in the picnic area under the left stand grand stand. as opposed to today, what I remember was we had fun at the park - we were very lucky there was no internet and thus no place to get all crying and despairing - we were a lousy team (56 wins is at least a qualifier for lousy) but it was not the end of the world - I remember little anger, no fans quitting the Sox, not any of the bulls*** we see today after every loss. No wails of mutha f***in lazy assholes s***. We were just happy to have the Sox and have fun at Sox Park. There was none of the s*** you see today with paper bags over heads and dire threats to management and owners if they didn't fire this one or trade that one. We were much happier then - or maybe things like Vietnam and Laos and Kent State kept a bit of perspective on what were things to have despair over and what not. Also not much to feel bad with about the cubs - it was lkike you have your team and I have mine and I like the Sox damnit just because, noit because one team was "better" than the others. Although cub fans were very obnoxious back then - and I loved it since they collapsed in 1970, not as big as in 69, but they were ahead and folded in 70 as well. But we were not happy and stupid, just happy to be Sox fans, not stupid about our team - everyone I know had an optimistic hope that over the next 3-4 years we would get better. And you are so right about when we hired Tanner that the happiness and optimism was everywhere - there was the 3 year plan - in 1971 we would get back to respectable, in 1972 we would be one of the better teams and in 1973 we would cointend and take it all. To this day the 1973 team is one of my biggest dissapointments becase we did follow the 3 year plan in 71 and 72, we jsut failed in 73. The 77 team was the 73 team we were waiting for, one reason we loved the 77 team so much. Given a chocie between then and now, I still prefer the lot less crying all the time of 70 as opposed to today. Again, maybe it was because the Sox didn't move and we just so happy to still have them. Or maybe we figurerd out early on that we weren't going to contend so might as well enjoy baseball and not slit our wrists with every loss, or wax so passionately about how horrid they were. I remember the 1970 team as very inept despite what on paper looks like a great roster but I also remember it as being fun. The 3 year plan with Tanner - the thrill was so high when he took over from les Moss (interim after Gutteridge) in late 70 season that on opening day 1971 one of the most stunning things ever in WS history happened - but I wil save that for another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 My fault about mentioning Milwaukee. The Sox played some home games in Milwaukee in 69. The Seattle Pilots played one year (69) and then moved to Milwaukee for the 70 season. This resulted in the city of Seattle suing MLB baseball. MLB was going to settle the lawsuit by sending the Sox to Seattle, but then Veeck came in and bought the team again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 My fault about mentioning Milwaukee. The Sox played some home games in Milwaukee in 69. The Seattle Pilots played one year (69) and then moved to Milwaukee for the 70 season. This resulted in the city of Seattle suing MLB baseball. MLB was going to settle the lawsuit by sending the Sox to Seattle, but then Veeck came in and bought the team again. Veeck didn't buy them until the end of the 76 season, right? What was Seattle's first year? Wasn't 70 the year the one Allyn brother bought the team from the other to save us for Chicago - and everyone I now (except JimH) associates 70 with Milwaukee so no need to apologise for that. I do remember talk of moving the Sox to Seattle to settle the suit but we got viable enough again to cause MLB to start a new franchise in Milwaukee rather than move us. Today's young fan has no idea how we rode the roller coaster about losing the Sox for years. That was tougher on me than any win-loss s***. 1970 was also the year what we then called the Jefferson Park el opened - first time we had train service north of Logan Square - today it is the el that goes to O'hare - that was so splendid for us on the NW side. We could finally just hop a train to Sox Park without having to ride a bus across the city to the ravenswood or Broadway and switch trains a million times. It cut like an hour off of our travel time which was a real gift for us Sox fans on the NW side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Veeck didn't buy them until the end of the 76 season, right? What was Seattle's first year? Wasn't 70 the year the one Allyn brother bought the team from the other to save us for Chicago - and everyone I now (except JimH) associates 70 with Milwaukee so no need to apologise for that. I do remember talk of moving the Sox to Seattle to settle the suit but we got viable enough again to cause MLB to start a new franchise in Milwaukee rather than move us. Today's young fan has no idea how we rode the roller coaster about losing the Sox for years. That was tougher on me than any win-loss s***. 1970 was also the year what we then called the Jefferson Park el opened - first time we had train service north of Logan Square - today it is the el that goes to O'hare - that was so splendid for us on the NW side. We could finally just hop a train to Sox Park without having to ride a bus across the city to the ravenswood or Broadway and switch trains a million times. It cut like an hour off of our travel time which was a real guft for us Sox fans on the NW side. This is how I remember it. In 1975, the Sox were tanking again and the Allyn that owned the team ( I always get John and Arthur confused) was ready to sell. Once again there was talk of moving the team. Bill Veeck rode to the rescue and bought the team for the 1976 season. He hired Paul Richards and they wore those cute little shorts for some of the home games. The team stunk once again. I remember taking my wife to a game or two while she was pregnant with our first child. I converted her to rooting for the White Sox as long as they didn't play her beloved Pirates. I used to watch Sox games in that time period at Egans a nice little tavern in Edgewater and Bruno Rotis on Sheridan Road in Rogers Park near the Loyola campus. Both places catered to Sox fans then. I believe you are correct CW about the one Allyn brother getting majority control in 70 to save the team for Chicago. Seattle and Toronto entered the American League in 1977. MLB was keen to settle with the city of Seattle, so for a long while the AL had 14 teams to the NLs 12. Sometime in late 1975 or early 1976 Sports Illustrated I believe did a big story on Veeck reacquiring the White Sox. He expressed his contempt for the hierarchy of the AL and considered it a sacrilege that they were attempting to move the White Sox. He moved heaven and earth to get the necessary funds to buy the team. The AL paid him back by refusing to allow him to sell the team to Edward DeBartolo Sr when he was unloading the team in late 80, early 81. You're right CW the Jefferson Park L was a godsend to Sox fans in that part of town. I rode the Howard straight down to Comiskey. Day games, night games, never had a problem and I'm not the least bit intimidating, I look like the proverbial soft touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Eddie Debartalo wanted to buy the Sox? Wow how much different history could have been! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 I can't keep the Allyn brothers apart either - I think, and this is a guess, Art bought out John, but I am not sure, could very well be the reverse and my media guide is at home. I do remember thanking the savior Allyn borther a lot when he walked around the ball park, as he was wont to do. We used to give him ovations in the left stand grand stand. I was always thankful we didn't sell to diBartolo. Not only the criminal things which got him kicked out of the NFL, but he would have moved us without a second thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Eddie Debartalo wanted to buy the Sox? Wow how much different history could have been! yeah, they would have gone at least 20-25 years now. it was a divine gift of heaven that the dibartolo family did not get their hands on the Sox, and once again, thank you Bill Veeck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 yeah, they would have gone at least 20-25 years now. it was a divine gift of heaven that the dibartolo family did not get their hands on the Sox, and once again, thank you Bill Veeck! Oh, I had no idea he wanted to move the team. That was before I ever paid attention to any of the off field stuff. I was 6 during the 1980 season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Eddie Debartalo wanted to buy the Sox? Wow how much different history could have been! Again I'm going by memory here. If I make an error or two somebody who knows better please correct me. Bill Veeck had chronic health problems, partly due to a serious injury suffered in WWII. In late 1980 he was ready to sell again. He wanted to sell the team to Edward DeBartolo Sr. EDB had made a fortune in construction, mainly building malls all over the country. He came from Youngstown, Ohio a place known as "bombtown USA" in the 50's and 60's. For those of you from Chicago, Cicero is Mayberry RFD compared to Youngstown. Bowie Kuhn who was commisioner of Baseball at the time conducted a quiet rumor campaign against EDB, you know the M word. EDB need 11 votes of approval from AL owners to buy the Sox. The first vote was 8-6 in favor. The second vote was 11-3 against, only Veeck, Oakland and Cleveland voting for EDB. The Reinsdorf-Einhorn group eventually bought the team. 1981 begins their era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 and yes the M word did turn out to be true enough - why the NFL banned him. Veeck was a great guy but he ran an underfunded orgainization both times and traded away a lot of tomorrows for the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 yeah, they would have gone at least 20-25 years now. it was a divine gift of heaven that the dibartolo family did not get their hands on the Sox, and once again, thank you Bill Veeck! I'm going to have to disagree here. I remember there being a lot of controversy when DeBartolo was a front runner to buy the team. Much of it stemmed not from his alleged organized crime connections, but the fact that he had professed a desire in the past to buy a team and move it to New Orleans and play in the Superdome. Mike Royko wrote a scathing article denoucing EDB. Sometime later he completely recanted, and wrote an article supporting EDB. I never met Royko, but was told he was very close friends with an Italian American gentleman who convinced him that EDB was on the up and up. The DeBartolo family did well with the 49ers and Penguins. EDB was an up from the streets guy who loved to gamble and loved to win. He loved to go head to head with the WASP types in business and he dearly wanted all of his ventures to do well, especially his sports teams. He opened his pocketbook and the Penguins, the doormat of the NHL finally won a cup. His son EDB Jr is the one who made a hash of things. I don't believe he would have moved the White Sox. I believe he would have spent money out the wazoo to try to win, just like he did with the 49ers and Penguins. I once got into a discussion with a guy on another site about EDB Sr. I did some research and of course I don't have access to FBI files, but I did find out that some of EDB's construction sites were bombed in 1950's Youngstown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 and yes the M word did turn out to be true enough - why the NFL banned him. Veeck was a great guy but he ran an underfunded orgainization both times and traded away a lot of tomorrows for the moment. Going to try to get down to the nitty gritty on this one. It was the son who got into trouble IIRC. I'll get back to you on this one although it may be a day or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyJohn25 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 yeah, they would have gone at least 20-25 years now. it was a divine gift of heaven that the dibartolo family did not get their hands on the Sox, and once again, thank you Bill Veeck. Actually, I have read in a couple of sources that Veeck was secretly negotiating to sell to a buyer who was going to move the team to Denver after 1980. Marvin Davis, I believe it was. He and Veeck were going to be equal partners. The deal fell through, according to Davis, because the American League would not have approved any sale that would have moved the team out of Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 yeah, they would have gone at least 20-25 years now. it was a divine gift of heaven that the dibartolo family did not get their hands on the Sox, and once again, thank you Bill Veeck. Actually, I have read in a couple of sources that Veeck was secretly negotiating to sell to a buyer who was going to move the team to Denver after 1980. Marvin Davis, I believe it was. He and Veeck were going to be equal partners. The deal fell through, according to Davis, because the American League would not have approved any sale that would have moved the team out of Chicago. Heather look at the Hornets nest you stirred. I heard the Veeck Denver story but have never commented on it because my recollection is not as strong and I'm not sold on the stories credibility. I will say the AL was perfectly willing to see the White Sox moved. It came close to happening in the late 60's and mid 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Veeck was indeed negotiating with Marvin Davis, whose intent was to move the team to Denver. Whether Veeck was using the negotiations as leverage against the American League or potential Chicago buyers (to drive up the price?) ... who knows. To backtrack for a moment ... the Sox played "home" games in Milwaukee in both 1968 and 1969. That was when Bud Selig was lobbying to move the franchise to Milwaukee. A-1 Goof Actor Danny Kaye was trying to buy the Sox for Seattle in late 1975 after Allyn announced his intention to sell. Veeck put together the investors to keep the team in Chicago. As to whether Veeck was ever truly serious about selling to someone who would move the team, who knows ... but Veeck did just that with the St. Louis Browns (now Baltimore Orioles) after the 1953 season. One thing everyone (historians) seem to agree on ... even Bill Gleason, a staunch Veeck supporter ... was that Veeck always made money on his teams, either while owning them ... and certainly by selling them. He was a shrewd businessman and master promoter, but let's not credit him with having entirely philanthropic intentions. He always intended to make money, and he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 TommyJohn, SI1020, JimH, thank you for the memory rushes of things I had stored away - now that you post what you ahve, I am remembering things - yeah, i remember the Denver thing with Davis now that you mention it, whole compartments of memory long closed have been opened up - thanks everyone!! How close we came to losing our team - that is why in my heart of hearts I can't get down on JR because if nothing else, the team has not had to go through with this moving scenarios that plagued us from the late 60s until the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 TommyJohn, SI1020, JimH, thank you for the memory rushes of things I had stored away - now that you post what you ahve, I am remembering things - yeah, i remember the Denver thing with Davis now that you mention it, whole compartments of memory long closed have been opened up - thanks everyone!! How close we came to losing our team - that is why in my heart of hearts I can't get down on JR because if nothing else, the team has not had to go through with this moving scenarios that plagued us from the late 60s until the 80s. Same from me to all. JimH thanks for jogging my memory on the Denver thing. May the White Sox always remain on the south side of Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Hey Let me get to those seasons. 1964 tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I remember one thing very well. Before Veeck bought the Sox for the 2nd time, Danny Kaye, the actor, led a group that was going to buy the team and move them to Seattle. At one point, they thought it was a done deal, as Danny Kaye and Gene Autry came out of an owners meeting, arm in arm, singing "Back in Seattle Again" to the tune of Autry's signature song "Back in the Saddle Again". I never had another moments use for either one of those guys since. Still, to this day, I will not watch anything with either Gene Autry or Danny Kaye in it. Now, a name that was mentioned earlier in the thread, Jerry Janeski. IIRC he was a guy we acquired from Boston when we traded Gary Peters ( What idiot made that deal?). Seems to me that someone else was supposed to come over in that deal, but this player retired rather than come to the Sox. I can't remember the player's name, sorry. Janeski, I believe, was someone Boston sent us as compensation. That turn out to be very little compensation at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebeck Fan Club Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Wait a sec, didn't we almost move to St. Pete about a decade ago? If that wasn't JR, let me know. Now I see that people have tried to move the Sox for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Bowie Kuhn who was commisioner of Baseball at the time conducted a quiet rumor campaign against EDB, you know the M word. EDB need 11 votes of approval from AL owners to buy the Sox. The first vote was 8-6 in favor. The second vote was 11-3 against, only Veeck, Oakland and Cleveland voting for EDB. The Reinsdorf-Einhorn group eventually bought the team. 1981 begins their era. Oh lord.. that was no rumor! The guy was so crooked he walked sideways. Thank GOD he didn't get the approval. OMG.. can you imagine? Would have given "SS Hitmen" an entirely different meaning!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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