Konerko's quote after the game yesterday

[ILoveThisGAme]

After the game yesterday on Detroit's Sports report, Konerko stated that throughout his career in Chicago he has never seen this team so banged up. Also stated that this team is really tired right now. Finished his comments by stating that it's not an excuse, but a shorter offseason does take a hit on you.

 

I have been hearing about this for the last 3 weeks. Why would you go on about this when you know the opposing team is listening to your comments? This team over the entire second half has grounded into more double plays and taken less walks than anyone in baseball. They have swung at so many pitches out of the strikezone. Over and over pitchers keep jamming us in and we keep grounding out. Earlier in the season we would take a pitch, wait for the one down the middle and not miss it. They do look tired, but isn't that why they get paid the big bucks.

[kapkomet]

It amazes me how few people get it around here, and I don't mean that directly against you.

[LVSoxFan]

I don't think this is any big secret. Honestly, this team has looked tired to me all year. Everybody, at one point or another.

 

You know who else looks exhausted? Ozzie. Man, what happened to 2005 Ozzie, stalking the dugout, clapping his hands, egging them on? Nowadays Ozzie just sits there like Dusty Baker, silent.

 

Many here are calling for the dismantling of the team and getting rid of the pitching and this and that, but IMO the team has been fatigured and banged up for quite some time.

 

Maybe the downside from winning the WS for the first time is that players can't adjust to the shorter offseason because it's all new to them. Not only that, but Freddy pitching in the WBC? Come on! I can't believe they let him do that.

 

But yes, especially second half, this team just seems listless. Which, believe it or not, makes me optimistic about next year. Rested and healthy, and think in 2007 we'll have the team we thought we had this year.

 

Maybe opening night was an omen, LOL: that long, drawn-out game that didn't finally conclude until after 1AM. Or the record-setting, dragged out game right before the ASB against Boston...

 

Signs, signs, everywhere the signs...

[The Ginger Kid]

Yeah, it really hurt the Yankees in 98. And in 99. And in 2000. And in 2001.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, it really hurt the Yankees in 98. And in 99. And in 2000. And in 2001.

What about 97?

[NorthSideSox72]

How many teams have repeated in the last 20 or 30 years? Few.

 

And I'd love to see, if someone has the data, what the regular season records of WS champs were the following year (in the last 20 or 30 years). I'd bet that very, very few had better records the year after.

[Rowand44]

So being banged up is the new excuse, eh? Sorry, I'm not buying. The Twins, Yankees, Tigers and A's have all lost key players for the majority of the season due to injury and we're banged up so that's the reason for this team struggling? Nope, I don't buy it.

Edited September 21, 2006 by Rowand44

[ptatc]

After the game yesterday on Detroit's Sports report, Konerko stated that throughout his career in Chicago he has never seen this team so banged up. Also stated that this team is really tired right now. Finished his comments by stating that it's not an excuse, but a shorter offseason does take a hit on you.

 

I have been hearing about this for the last 3 weeks. Why would you go on about this when you know the opposing team is listening to your comments? This team over the entire second half has grounded into more double plays and taken less walks than anyone in baseball. They have swung at so many pitches out of the strikezone. Over and over pitchers keep jamming us in and we keep grounding out. Earlier in the season we would take a pitch, wait for the one down the middle and not miss it. They do look tired, but isn't that why they get paid the big bucks.

 

No "greenies" this year.

Edited September 21, 2006 by ptatc

[LVSoxFan]

So being banged up is the new excuse, eh? Sorry, I'm not buying. The Twins, Yankees, Tigers and A's have all lost key players for the majority of the season due to injury and we're banged up so that's the reason for this team struggling? Nope, I don't buy it.

 

 

Not from me. I think it's a perfect storm of events that meant this team really never got hot this year:

 

-Injuries

-Fatigue

-Bad management calls

-Inept offense

-Starting rotation struggles

-Bullpen struggles

-Mental distraction

-Losing to central opponents we usually dominate (HELLO, KC!)

-Errors

 

I mean, you name it.

 

What's so odd is that we never had a long streak this year. Even the 2004 Sox I think had some 10, 12 game tears.

[Rex Kickass]

Didn't we win nine in a row in May?

[Hangar18]

It amazes me how few people get it around here, and I don't mean that directly against you.

 

 

Im not quite sure what you mean by that ..........

but I read that comment, and to me, the SOX only played 2 extra weeks. Does 2 extra weeks take that much of a toll on a team? Thats secretly why its hard to repeat?

[witesoxfan]

The Sox won 8 straight at one point in April, and they won 9 straight in June, and nearly made it 10 but Iguchi's grand slam in the 9th was not quite enough.

 

And that 9 game winning streak was the first 9 game winning streak since 1977(who some fondly recall as the South Side Hitmen)

[Big Hurtin]

Where could I send a sympathy card? C/O White Sox? Edited September 21, 2006 by Big Hurtin

[Kid Gleason]

I understand that it is hard to get into the Series and win it two years in a row. But tell me this, how many World Series winners don't even make the play-off's the following year? That's the part that baffles me. I didn't expect them to repeat the title, but after the "improvements" that they supposedly made, I expected them to follow suit with history and atleast get into the dang play-offs.

[vandy125]

Im not quite sure what you mean by that ..........

but I read that comment, and to me, the SOX only played 2 extra weeks. Does 2 extra weeks take that much of a toll on a team? Thats secretly why its hard to repeat?

 

Just a bit to add on that. Haven't the dates of the World Series been moving further and further back? I think that it was moved back a week in 99. I don't know how much that adds to it, but there seem to be a good amount of nagging injuries.

[Queen Prawn]

I understand that it is hard to get into the Series and win it two years in a row. But tell me this, how many World Series winners don't even make the play-off's the following year? That's the part that baffles me. I didn't expect them to repeat the title, but after the "improvements" that they supposedly made, I expected them to follow suit with history and atleast get into the dang play-offs.

 

Ditto!

[southsider2k5]

Im not quite sure what you mean by that ..........

but I read that comment, and to me, the SOX only played 2 extra weeks. Does 2 extra weeks take that much of a toll on a team? Thats secretly why its hard to repeat?

 

We won the WS on October 26th, which means it was more like 4 weeks. That is 4 weeks that players don't have to rest, recover, get procedures done, etc. Despite it being "only 12 games" to some, those are the 4 more intense weeks that any of those players will ever see, as they were almost all one run games, where every single pitch was a game breaking potential experience. The body takes time to recover and adjust from the grind of playing 200 plus games of baseball, when you include the preseason on top of that. Take away 20% of the typical recovery time that the players have been used to, and it makes it that much harder to recover from. The results are obvious, and you don't need to look any further than the exhaustion and nagging injuries the players are showing to see them.

[fathom]

We pushed our starting pitchers too hard at the beginning of the year, instead of letting them ease into the season. Part of the reason why we acquired Vazquez, or at least we were told, was to let McCarthy fill-in for some of our starters if they experienced this fatigue. How many times this year did Ozzie leave a starter out for the 7th or 8th inning, especially when we were losing, when he could have gone to the bullpen and maybe saved 20 pitches on our starter's arm?

[CWSGuy406]

How many teams have repeated in the last 20 or 30 years? Few.

 

And I'd love to see, if someone has the data, what the regular season records of WS champs were the following year (in the last 20 or 30 years). I'd bet that very, very few had better records the year after.

 

BS.

 

I don't think anyone can realistically ask a team to repeat. That's too tough a proposition.

 

But Kenny Williams built a team good enough to make it to the playoffs. The players and the coaching staff (Guillen, Cooper, Walker, Cora, etc etc) failed.

 

Three out of the four teams that will make the playoffs in the AL this year have had what I'd call catastrophic injuries at one point or another in the season. The Twins lost Liriano, Oakland lost Harden (Chavez has been playing hurt for a long time as well), and the Yankees lost both of their corner OFers and a couple of starting pitchers.

 

What big injury did the Sox have? We lost Contreras for two starts. Apparently a couple guys have been playing injured (I've heard or read whispers of Buehrle, Garcia, Dye, and Crede all playing hurt), but if it's not bad enough to go on the DL, then at that point, I'd say you have to suck it up. I'm not calling Konerko a liar; I believe that a lot of White Sox players are hurt/exhausted at the 150 game point of the season.

 

But who isn't? It's been a long season for EVERYONE, not just the Sox.

 

I'm not buying it. As I said, this team failed, period.

[Felix]

We pushed our starting pitchers too hard at the beginning of the year, instead of letting them ease into the season. Part of the reason why we acquired Vazquez, or at least we were told, was to let McCarthy fill-in for some of our starters if they experienced this fatigue. How many times this year did Ozzie leave a starter out for the 7th or 8th inning, especially when we were losing, when he could have gone to the bullpen and maybe saved 20 pitches on our starter's arm?

Thats true, but at the start of the year, Ozzie didn't have much of a choice since, as we all know, the bullpen was pretty bad then.

[thedoctor]

there are a number of factors that contributed to this team's demise, and i am fairly certain that fatigue/wear-and-tear was one of those factors.

 

now, was it the main factor? no, i don't believe that. but i do think it is something that kept this team from really putting it together in the second half of the season. people forget how good this team was for the great majority of the first half. but as the season wore on, the team just got worse.

[LVSoxFan]

Just a bit to add on that. Haven't the dates of the World Series been moving further and further back? I think that it was moved back a week in 99. I don't know how much that adds to it, but there seem to be a good amount of nagging injuries.

 

You guys sure about "two extra" weeks? Because I remember that if we hadn't swept Houston, there would have been a game on Halloween Saturday (i.e., the Saturday where everybody goes out).

 

That's more than two weeks extra.

 

 

The Sox won 8 straight at one point in April, and they won 9 straight in June, and nearly made it 10 but Iguchi's grand slam in the 9th was not quite enough.

 

And that 9 game winning streak was the first 9 game winning streak since 1977(who some fondly recall as the South Side Hitmen)

 

Well there we have it. May. June.

 

I think our longest streak 2nd half has been four.

[mumu]

You guys sure about "two extra" weeks? Because I remember that if we hadn't swept Houston, there would have been a game on Halloween Saturday (i.e., the Saturday where everybody goes out).

 

That's more than two weeks extra.

Well there we have it. May. June.

 

I think our longest streak 2nd half has been four.

 

No, we won 5 aug 10-14.

[StrangeSox]

How many teams have repeated in the last 20 or 30 years? Few.

 

And I'd love to see, if someone has the data, what the regular season records of WS champs were the following year (in the last 20 or 30 years). I'd bet that very, very few had better records the year after.

 

 

I quickly looked up WS appearances vs. playoff appearance the following year since the introduction of the WC. 8 out of 22 teams have not made the playoffs after appearing in the WS the year before.

 

'97 Marlins*

'98 Padres

'00 Mets

'01 D-backs*

'02 Angels*

'03 Marlins*

'05 White Sox* & Astros

 

*Out of the WS winners, 5 out of 11 didn't return.

 

What I'd like to know is what exactly those teams did after winning the world series, ie complete rebuild after a fire sale.

[NorthSideSox72]

BS.

 

I don't think anyone can realistically ask a team to repeat. That's too tough a proposition.

 

But Kenny Williams built a team good enough to make it to the playoffs. The players and the coaching staff (Guillen, Cooper, Walker, Cora, etc etc) failed.

 

Three out of the four teams that will make the playoffs in the AL this year have had what I'd call catastrophic injuries at one point or another in the season. The Twins lost Liriano, Oakland lost Harden (Chavez has been playing hurt for a long time as well), and the Yankees lost both of their corner OFers and a couple of starting pitchers.

 

What big injury did the Sox have? We lost Contreras for two starts. Apparently a couple guys have been playing injured (I've heard or read whispers of Buehrle, Garcia, Dye, and Crede all playing hurt), but if it's not bad enough to go on the DL, then at that point, I'd say you have to suck it up. I'm not calling Konerko a liar; I believe that a lot of White Sox players are hurt/exhausted at the 150 game point of the season.

 

But who isn't? It's been a long season for EVERYONE, not just the Sox.

 

I'm not buying it. As I said, this team failed, period.

 

BS, huh? Well, let's look at my BS claim. In the last 24 years (I'd have done 25 except 1981 was a strike year), the following is true of teams that won the World Series:

 

3 of 24 repeated as champs

8 of 24 made the playoffs

6 of 24 had a better record the year after

15 of 24 had records over .500

 

So tell me again how my claim is BS? Those are the facts. Most teams, like I said, do worse the year after. 18 of 24 in fact. Only a third EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. And not even two thirds have a .500 record.

 

Am I disappointed? Yeah, I had high expectations too. But let's have some perspective here, shall we?

 

 

 

I quickly looked up WS appearances vs. playoff appearance the following year since the introduction of the WC. 8 out of 22 teams have not made the playoffs after appearing in the WS the year before.

 

'97 Marlins*

'98 Padres

'00 Mets

'01 D-backs*

'02 Angels*

'03 Marlins*

'05 White Sox* & Astros

 

*Out of the WS winners, 5 out of 11 didn't return.

 

What I'd like to know is what exactly those teams did after winning the world series, ie complete rebuild after a fire sale.

Here is the last 24 years, WS winner, record, record in following year, and playoff status...

 

1982 St. Louis Cardinals, 92-70, 79-83 (no playoffs)

1983 Baltimore Orioles, 98-64, 85-77 (no playoffs)

1984 Detroit Tigers, 104-58, 84-77 (no playoffs)

1985 Kansas City Royals, 91-71, 76-86 (no playoffs)

1986 New York Mets, 108-54, 92-70 (no playoffs)

1987 Minnesota Twins, 85-77, 91-71 (no playoffs)

1988 Los Angeles Dodgers, 94-67, 77-83 (no playoffs)

1989 Oakland A’s, 99-63, 103-59 (lost in WS)

1990 Cincinnati Reds, 91-71, 74-88 (no playoffs)

1991 Minnesota Twins, 95-67, 90-72 (no playoffs)

1992 Toronto Blue Jays, 96-66, 95-67 (repeated as champs)

1993 Toronto Blue Jays, 95-67, 55-60*** (no playoffs, third place, strike)

1994 ***Strike

1995 Atlanta Braves, 90-54, 96-66 (lost in WS)

1996 New York Yankees, 92-70, 96-66 (lost in ALDS)

1997 Florida Marlins, 92-70, 54-108 (no playoffs)

1998 New York Yankees, 114-48, 98-64 (repeated as champs)

1999 New York Yankees, 98-64, 87-74 (repeated as champs)

2000 New York Yankees, 87-74, 95-65 (lost in WS)

2001 Arizona Diamondbacks, 91-71, 98-64 (lost in NLDS)

2002 Anaheim Angels, 99-63, 77-85 (no playoffs)

2003 Florida Marlins, 91-71, 83-79 (no playoffs)

2004 Boston Red Sox, 98-64, 95-67 (lost in ALDS)

2005 Chicago White Sox, 99-63, *85-67 (no playoffs)