Heart

[Flash Tizzle]

Felix, what exactly is your problem? I don't think Tizzle is rooting against this team. This team has shown nothing for over 3 months now. Why expect anything from them?

No, I AM rooting against this team. I believe the sooner our playoff chances are dashed the quicker Guillen can begin inserting minor league players into the lineup. And thus, once again, I'll begin watching this ballclub. Offseason and 2007 can't come soon enough.

 

Some people apparently can't handle anything aside from the usual, "I support this team until we're mathmatically eliminated," posts.

 

I've just grown so irritated, so disgusted, with what I've witnessed from this team during the second half. Oakland series was enough for me. Their on-field demeanor has little to do with beliefs, but judging from the piss-poor display against Seattle, they've given up as well. I'm not supporting this group, anymore. Perhpas with a few changes they'll arrive to spring training next year not feeling as if their 2005 championship entitles them to an automatic playoff birth.

 

Honest to God, they can lose the remaining games and it wouldn't matter to me. Did tonight's loss really hurt anyone on this site? If anyone still held an emotional attachment to this years team, you should feel devastated after the crap they layed on the field. But I doubt anyone feels this way. Fans and players alike are sleepwalking the remainder of this disappointing season.

[Flash Tizzle]

Screw that idea.

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

 

Guillen to finish with his 1st string

Manager wants to get 90-plus wins but may rest Crede, Thome

 

By Mark Gonzales

Tribune staff reporter

 

September 21, 2006, 10:50 PM CDT

 

Despite the likelihood of elimination from postseason play, White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen plans to stick with his regular lineup the rest of the season.

 

This will come as good news to players who can earn more money in incentives, as well as Detroit, which could have its postseason status depend on how the Sox fare with Minnesota in an American League Central series next weekend.

 

"I want to win the most games we can," Guillen said Thursday. "People have to play for money. People have to play for pride. People have to play because they are getting paid.

 

"I might give a couple of the new kids a chance here and there, but we are trying to finish as strong as we can. One thing about it is we can win 90-plus games and [still] lose. I'm not going to give up just like that. If we get eliminated, I plan to play the guys who should be playing."

 

Guillen, however, said he would take precautionary measures with third baseman Joe Crede, who has been nursing a sore lower back, and designated hitter Jim Thome, who has a sore left hamstring.

 

"We play the same amount of games as other teams, and I don't see anything [about how rivals] are hurt," Guillen said.

 

Crede has earned his maximum $200,000 in incentives.

 

Second baseman Tadahito Iguchi's four at-bats Thursday meant he reached the $250,000 mark in incentives. Leadoff batter Scott Podsednik needs 30 more plate appearances to reach the 600 mark and earn $50,000. He already has earned $87,500 in bonuses tied to plate appearances.

 

Catcher A.J. Pierzynski needs five more starts to earn an additional $50,000 in incentives. Pierzynski made his 120th start Thursday night and has earned $150,000 in incentives.

 

Meanwhile, Guillen remained focused on finishing strong despite Wednesday's 6-2 humbling against the Tigers.

 

"I feel like I got hit by a truck last night," Guillen said. "But, like I say, it's like going against the current. When you are swimming and swimming and swimming, all of a sudden you can't swim anymore. You are not gone until you are gone. Right now, we have a chance. It's real, real hard to do it.

 

"When I have the letter E next to me, then I'm done. Besides that, you keep fighting."

 

YAY. Guillen leaving in players to earn incentives. Watching Podsedik's next 30 AB's will be both agonizing and bittersweet. Hopefully they'll be the last 30 in a White Sox uniform.

 

I'd also like to believe Crede's absence may allow Fields to move into 3rd, but I can't count on Guillen to follow such logic.

[dagotony06]

I can't even begin to tell you how bad this pisses me off if it's true. But on the other hand...it makes sense. Seems like they wrote it off a month ago. Geezus....left the yound kids play the rest of the season then if the core has a s*** attitude.

 

Tim Kurkjian also said he spoke to a source close to the Whitesox and said that they really miss Rowand because of the enthusiasm he brought to the clubhouse and also Carl Everett because last year he would come in the clubhouse and if the players were watching tv before the games, he would shut the tv's off and say "alright guys no tv, we have to concentrate and get ready to win a ballgame today". Maybe Carl was right at the beginning of the year when he said we have no vocal leader that will take charge in the clubhouse. Just something to think about. All I know these guys are making way too much money, to not at least bring 100% to the remaining games. I could understand if they were all ready eliminated, but they aren't. And although it would take a miracle to make the playoffs, they are still in it, and a win last night would have cut the lead to 4.5 with 9 to go. But these guys have mailed it in already. It just really is disgusting and a shame. The fans supported this team and it just laid down!!!

[greg775]

i think he's finally gone public. which he should have done earlier

 

Give me a break. What good would that have done?

This "heart" crap pisses me off.

So do all teams that are not going to the playoffs or are 15 below .500

without heart?

Geezus. Some people think it's all intangibles.

We have underachieved as a team.

But I take dispute to those who say they didn't try.

What the f*** is "Heart" anyway?

Is it hitting 4 homers in a row in the ninth like the Dodgers did the other day?

Oh yea, I forgot, the Dodgers lost the next night.

 

True the team was pathetiic again tonight.

I guess most of the Sox teams throughout history had no heart because not

too many have made the postseason.

p.s. some of the same people who talk about heart get mad when us Rowand lovers

mention the Sox missed his intangibles.

So give me a break please.

Edited September 22, 2006 by greg775

[Rowand44]

I saw this on the SOX message board and it really pissed me off. Wjat the heack happened to the heart of this team, and what happened to Ozzie, i never thought he would let this happen

 

Orel Hershiser was on Baseball Tonight talking about the Sox (He did the Tigers game last night on ESPN). He mentioned that it disturbed him to see the clubhouse atmosphere and it wasn't what he'd expected out of the defending world champs....he said he noticed players making offseason plans, signs up about cleaning out lockers, etc. This was very disturbing to me considering they are not yet mathmatically eliminated

Once again, this team just quit.

[greg775]

Once again, this team just quit.

What the hell does this mean? Please be specific. Who quit?

Did Pods quit or does he simply suck right now.

Did Uribe quit or did he overachieve much of last year.

Did Dye and Thome quit?

Did Paulie quit?

Did AJ?

DId the bullpen quit? No the bullpen sucked.

Did the starters quit? No the starters during a long stretch sucked.

Did Iguchi quit or just fall in love with the long ball?

Did Anderson quit or can he not hit anything but little league pitching?

Who the f*** quit?

Cora was braindead, but who quit????

[Rowand44]

What the hell does this mean? Please be specific. Who quit?

Did Pods quit or does he simply suck right now.

Did Uribe quit or did he overachieve much of last year.

Did Dye and Thome quit?

Did Paulie quit?

Did AJ?

DId the bullpen quit? No the bullpen sucked.

Did the starters quit? No the starters during a long stretch sucked.

Did Iguchi quit or just fall in love with the long ball?

Did Anderson quit or can he not hit anything but little league pitching?

Who the f*** quit?

Cora was braindead, but who quit????

When you read stuff like the players are packing up there things and are making offseason plans what does that tell you? When pods doesn't run hard down the first base line, when Uribe drops one handed catches, when aj wont get down in the dirt to block a ball, all that stuff is lack of hustle and lack of caring. Think what you want but there is no doubt in my mind that the majority of the team just mailed it in a few weeks back.

[greg775]

You know what, I trust the Trib's Gonzalez more than Orel f***ing Hershiser.

Give me a break on Orel Hershiser.

Stupid f***.

Gonzalez said in a Q and A the Sox didn't quit.

I mean believe they quit if you want but I wouldn't trust some hoser

like Orel Hershiser.

I'm sure he got the scoop about all the Sox talking about offseason plans, etc.

He's a dumbass.

[Rowand44]

You know what, I trust the Trib's Gonzalez more than Orel f***ing Hershiser.

Give me a break on Orel Hershiser.

Stupid f***.

Gonzalez said in a Q and A the Sox didn't quit.

I mean believe they quit if you want but I wouldn't trust some hoser

like Orel Hershiser.

I'm sure he got the scoop about all the Sox talking about offseason plans, etc.

He's a dumbass.

So Orel Hershiser who has absolutely nothing to gain from saying something like that just decided to make that up? Ok, whatever. How about the fact your manager even said tonight that he was disgusted at the effort the players gave? Whatever though, it's a matter of opinion and I'll leave it at that.

[RME JICO]

The Sox are just trying for a higher draft pick at this point.

[whitesoxfan101]

This team quit weeks ago, it's another in a long list of reasons why Ozzie sucks. But don't tell that to the defenders of the champion.

[Allsox]

Tim Kurkjian also said he spoke to a source close to the Whitesox and said that they really miss Rowand because of the enthusiasm he brought to the clubhouse and also Carl Everett because last year he would come in the clubhouse and if the players were watching tv before the games, he would shut the tv's off and say "alright guys no tv, we have to concentrate and get ready to win a ballgame today". Maybe Carl was right at the beginning of the year when he said we have no vocal leader that will take charge in the clubhouse. Just something to think about. All I know these guys are making way too much money, to not at least bring 100% to the remaining games. I could understand if they were all ready eliminated, but they aren't. And although it would take a miracle to make the playoffs, they are still in it, and a win last night would have cut the lead to 4.5 with 9 to go. But these guys have mailed it in already. It just really is disgusting and a shame. The fans supported this team and it just laid down!!!

 

If those are some of the reasons why they didn't do so well this yr (Rowand and Everett), then this team is more pathetic than their manager said last night

You don't need rah rah guys to hustle out a SB or a double or not let a guy steal 3rd on the throw back to the pitcher.

[Felix]

Some people apparently can't handle anything aside from the usual, "I support this team until we're mathmatically eliminated," posts.

I support this team period. Whether they are in it or eliminated, it won't stop me from rooting for my favorite team.

[Steff]

You know what, I trust the Trib's Gonzalez more than Orel f***ing Hershiser.

Give me a break on Orel Hershiser.

Stupid f***.

Gonzalez said in a Q and A the Sox didn't quit.

I mean believe they quit if you want but I wouldn't trust some hoser

like Orel Hershiser.

I'm sure he got the scoop about all the Sox talking about offseason plans, etc.

He's a dumbass.

 

 

Well.. he didn't make up the stuff about personal item transport. Most of the players have confirmed car and a couple boat and motorcycle transports over the past 2 weeks. Though it's not a big deal considering the carrier REQUESTED they do so BEFORE the end of September.

 

Tim Kurkjian also said he spoke to a source close to the Whitesox and said that they really miss Rowand because of the enthusiasm he brought to the clubhouse and also Carl Everett because last year he would come in the clubhouse and if the players were watching tv before the games, he would shut the tv's off and say "alright guys no tv, we have to concentrate and get ready to win a ballgame today". Maybe Carl was right at the beginning of the year when he said we have no vocal leader that will take charge in the clubhouse. Just something to think about.

 

 

Mising Aaron and Carl and the two worst kept secrets I've heard in a long time.

[southsideirish71]

Tim Kurkjian also said he spoke to a source close to the Whitesox and said that they really miss Rowand because of the enthusiasm he brought to the clubhouse and also Carl Everett because last year he would come in the clubhouse and if the players were watching tv before the games, he would shut the tv's off and say "alright guys no tv, we have to concentrate and get ready to win a ballgame today". Maybe Carl was right at the beginning of the year when he said we have no vocal leader that will take charge in the clubhouse. Just something to think about. All I know these guys are making way too much money, to not at least bring 100% to the remaining games. I could understand if they were all ready eliminated, but they aren't. And although it would take a miracle to make the playoffs, they are still in it, and a win last night would have cut the lead to 4.5 with 9 to go. But these guys have mailed it in already. It just really is disgusting and a shame. The fans supported this team and it just laid down!!!

 

 

The manager is the one who should be turning off the TV and telling the guys to focus, not the players. The leader should be Ozzie, not any player.

[dagotony06]

If those are some of the reasons why they didn't do so well this yr (Rowand and Everett), then this team is more pathetic than their manager said last night

You don't need rah rah guys to hustle out a SB or a double or not let a guy steal 3rd on the throw back to the pitcher.

 

You do need played like that if the manager has lost his team. And from what I have seen of this team the last 2 months of the season leads me to believe these guys have tuned Guillen out. No one can say this team has been trying hard, and playing with any type of intensity. Guillen even said in Oakland before the last game, that if he walked into that clubhouse sunday and there was football being watched on the tv's, that there was gonna be some broken tv's in that clubhouse. You do need players that will step up, and be leaders, and fire up the team, or get in someone's face for dogging it. We don't have that, we have gentlmean Jim Thome, and konerko, and Dye. They are not outspoken and will not call out players when they need to. That's the way I look at it. I'm not saying if Rowand and Everett were here we would be in the playoffs, I'm just saying, I don't think we would be just going through the motions like they are now. This whole orginization got fat off of one world series championship. I guess that was enough for them. I would have thought KW would have had a closed door meeting with this team and ripped them all a new a*****e, for the way they have been playing, but maybe he is satisfied with last year as well. There was no sense of urgency anywhere throughout the year from anyone in this orginization, and that's what really bothers me. KW didn't do anything at the deadline to improve our team whatsoever.

[southsider2k5]

Well.. he didn't make up the stuff about personal item transport. Most of the players have confirmed car and a couple boat and motorcycle transports over the past 2 weeks. Though it's not a big deal considering the carrier REQUESTED they do so BEFORE the end of September.

 

Ah yes, context is EVERYTHING. Glad to see the reporters can't even tell the whole story...

[Hangar18]

This is the 100th time this has been repeated.

 

heh heh. And thats how many losses this team would have if the season ended October 30th instead of October 1st.

[LVSoxFan]

I've been avoiding the pile-on for weeks now, pointing out that the team is injured, it's hard to repeat, etc., etc.

 

After last night I am flat-out EMBARASSED.

 

First of all, Javy got f***ed. The guy is throwing quality ballgames and we can't score ONE RUN?

 

And on to that again: ONE RUN? NOT EVEN. ZERO RUNS.

 

I am SO tired of these games where we win 8-2 or whatever and then get shut out the next game, or score one run. Or can't overcome a two run deficit, and lose.

 

Nine innings, zero runs. Against freakin Seattle.

 

Do people still want to insist that our starters are the reason for this season?

 

No fire. No gut. No HEART. And that is UNACCEPTABLE to me as a Sox fan.

[elrockinMT]

 

They need to go the Wizard of Oz. Get it? Wizard of Oz?

 

:uhoh :uhoh :uhoh

 

 

Thanks Greasy!

[greg775]

I still want to see a logical rundown of which players "quit" and have no "heart"

The only "evidence" I could see would be that game where Iguchi played like

an imbecile, not running on the smash to right that should have been a triple

and not scoring on a hit.

 

And maybe Pods and his beautiful wife the way he "appears" to have lapses

like putting down horrendous bunt efforts.

 

Does "quit" mean have s***ty at bats? Just give up an at bat?

I don't think many players ever try to make outs?

 

Tell me, who quit and answer my other question ... do all teams that don't make

the playoffs and/or finish 15 out have no "heart?"

 

We had a lot of pulsating wins thisyear that show heart, only to come back the next

day and get smoked because of bad pitching or middle relief.

 

I agree we have been pathetic. I tend to believe it's like Konerko said in the paper,

that the team is like it always it, it just doesn't work sometimes.

 

After hearing this about Rowand, KW deserves what he got. If one player is so well

liked and such a gamer, you don't trade that player. You make the deal happen

with somebody else.

Edited September 22, 2006 by greg775

[whitesoxfan101]

I'm so damn tired of the bull crap about missing Everett and Rowand. We got a ton more production at DH than we did with Everett, and Rowand was hurt most of this year anyways. The reasons we lost are pretty simple:

 

1. The starting pitching didn't show up until early September

2. When the starting pitching finally showed up, our offense went to sleep

3. For 2/3 of the season, our bullpen was a disaster

4. We were too busy playing Rob Mackowiak in CF and Pablo in LF, while ignoring Gload, to give Joe Crede or Paul Konerko a day off, and as a result the 2 of them have been falling apart the last couple weeks. Too many days off for some, not enough for others.

5. Minnesota is really good

6. Detroit's hot start was too much for us to overcome

7. This team never executed well

8. Our manager cost us several games. We wouildn't have won it all even if he did a good job, but we very well might have made the playoffs.

 

I'm so tired of people missing our .303 OBP DH, and CF who didn't hit for crap in October, isn't as good on defense as Anderson, and misread 3 fly balls in our biggest RS series (Indians at the Cell). There are a lot of reasons we failed, but a lack of those 2 aren't involved.

 

I still want to see a logical rundown of which players "quit" and have no "heart"

The only "evidence" I could see would be that game where Iguchi played like

an imbecile, not running on the smash to right that should have been a triple

and not scoring on a hit.

 

And maybe Pods and his beautiful wife the way he "appears" to have lapses

like putting down horrendous bunt efforts.

 

Does "quit" mean have s***ty at bats? Just give up an at bat?

I don't think many players ever try to make outs?

 

Tell me, who quit and answer my other question ... do all teams that don't make

the playoffs and/or finish 15 out have no "heart?"

 

We had a lot of pulsating wins thisyear that show heart, only to come back the next

day and get smoked because of bad pitching or middle relief.

 

I agree we have been pathetic. I tend to believe it's like Konerko said in the paper,

that the team is like it always it, it just doesn't work sometimes.

 

After hearing this about Rowand, KW deserves what he got. If one player is so well

liked and such a gamer, you don't trade that player. You make the deal happen

with somebody else.

 

This team, as a whole, hasn't been the same since we lost 2 of 3 to Minny at The Cell in late August. Since then, we've won 2 series, 1 because Tampa Bay gave us 2 of 3, and the other because our pitching was so good at Anaheim, that we only figured out a way to lose 1 of 3. I can't tell you exactly when we quit, but we've looked just incredibly bad since that Twins series at home.

Edited September 22, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[Steff]

The message was pretty clear that it had little to do with their play, and everything to do with their attitudes.

[whitesoxfan101]

The message was pretty clear that it had little to do with their play, and everything to do with their attitudes.

 

That's a managerial problem then. If a team could have playoff talent, and fail because of their attitude, the manager is failing, because the biggest job of a manager next to putting players in the best position to succeed (which Ozzie doesn't), is to mantain a positive, winning, and hungry attitude in the clubhouse. I refuse to believe that having a far worse DH in Everett than Thome, and having Aaron Rowand, who played about 70 games this year, would have made us better at all.

[Steff]

That's a managerial problem then. If a team could have playoff talent, and fail because of their attitude, the manager is failing, because the biggest job of a manager next to putting players in the best position to succeed (which Ozzie doesn't), is to mantain a positive, winning, and hungry attitude in the clubhouse. I refuse to believe that having a far worse DH in Everett than Thome, and having Aaron Rowand, who played about 70 games this year, would have made us better at all.

 

 

 

Have you like.. missed all 4,384 threads about how this team has "quit" the past 2 weeks?