Trade Our 'Tub of Goo' NOW!

[Guest Ncorgbl]

I wrote before the season started that this 'Tub of Goo' was a problem looking for a place to happen. There is a 'problem' in the clubhouse, led by Colon, alienating non Spanish speaking players. Colon speaks and understands English just fine, but puts on as though he doesn't, sometimes using an interpretor, when he doesn't want to answer questions or be bothered, all to the enjoyment of the ones who know better. It's a 'clique' thing, that happens in clubhouses, but it's getting worse. Non Spanish speaking players are with the impression they are being talked about, and laughed at, and some are our very favourites. HSC mentioned this to me over a month ago, and, after checking it out, it's true, there is a problem with this guy.

 

The attraction of Colon is obvious, he brings a 98+ fastball and gets some CGs, but his record stinks for a multi million dollar wannabe, and his unwillingness to play the entire game he pitches is very apparent.

The White Sox would improve without Colon, it would be a classic case of addition by subtraction. Trade the 'Tub of Goo'.

If the White Sox pay this phony $12 million or more to stay here next year, they're nuts. This guy just doesn't show up unless he's in the mood. Right now as it stands Loaiza, a minimum wage pitcher is our 'Ace', and Jon Garland is our #2. With Buehrle's performance last night that puts Colon at #4, and I'd rather have Danny Wright than this pouting pig. We at least played .500 ball without the great Colon, who, with his wonderful performance tonight lost yet another opportunity to gain ground on the Twins and a .500 record.

This 'tub of goo' has become a clubhouse 'problem', and now can't pitch. Get rid of him as soon as possible, we'll be better off without him, and don't be afraid to trade him within our league or division, we always could beat this phony.

==================

 

On May 11th I wrote and quoted Colon from the Sun-Times, then followed up with the column from the 15th.

(May 11th) So far he only 'turns it up' after he sees if his teammates will or not. He gave up 3 runs early, again, and didn't bear down until he saw the offense come back. After the game he said;

"I felt strong right from the beginning,'' Colon said. "But when I saw the ballclub come back and tie the game, it was time to show who I am."

Any chance you could show 'who you are' before the team gets behind? Maybe lead a little? This is not something new for Colon.

==============

From the Sun-Times;

Sox want early focus from Colon

 

May 15, 2003

 

The message the White Sox are trying to relay to Bartolo

Colon is to consider the first inning as crunch time.

 

Colon, who will start today against the Baltimore Orioles, has a tendency not to get into a groove until the middle innings, something the light-hitting Sox can't afford.

 

"He is a guy who it seems like when we score or he is needed, he really steps up,'' manager Jerry Manuel said. "I think he likes that role. He's the guy that has that kind of stuff to rise to the occasion. We're going to need him every game the rest of the way.''

 

Manuel is confident the Colon who won 20 games last year is starting to emerge in a Sox uniform. Colon (3-3, 4.23 ERA) pitched into the ninth inning in his last start over the weekend at Seattle, giving up three runs on six hits in the team's only victory of the series. It snapped a three-start losing streak.

 

"He's got no reason to say 'Hey, you don't need me now,''' Manuel said. "We need him every game, every out.''

 

Manuel blamed Mark Buehrle's poor outing at Seattle on the feeble offense, saying it caused Buehrle to be too precise with his pitches. Manuel will be looking for early runs tonight against the Orioles, and he hopes Colon's protective instincts take over.

 

"We've tried a number of things to get a runner to second and score first and take pressure off our pitchers, but it just hasn't quite worked out offensively,'' Manuel said.

 

Doug Padilla

[southsider2k5]

Any idea what the trade market it for Colon? As it stands now if he walks away after this year we get two first round picks for him, and if what we traded for him is any indication of what is worth is right now, I would rather take the draft picks.

[SI1020]

This sounds like another problem that the crack MLB publicity machine will want to sweep under the rug.

[Winning Ugly]

I wrote before the season started that this 'Tub of Goo' was a problem looking for a place to happen. There is a 'problem' in the clubhouse, led by Colon, alienating non Spanish speaking players. Colon speaks and understands English just fine, but puts on as though he doesn't, sometimes using an interpretor, when he doesn't want to answer questions or be bothered, all to the enjoyment of the ones who know better. It's a 'clique' thing, that happens in clubhouses, but it's getting worse. Non Spanish speaking players are with the impression they are being talked about, and laughed at, and some are our very favourites. HSC mentioned this to me over a month ago, and, after checking it out, it's true, there is a problem with this guy.

 

The attraction of Colon is obvious, he brings a 98+ fastball and gets some CGs, but his record stinks for a multi million dollar wannabe, and his unwillingness to play the entire game he pitches is very apparent.

The White Sox would improve without Colon, it would be a classic case of addition by subtraction. Trade the 'Tub of Goo'.

If the White Sox pay this phony $12 million or more to stay here next year, they're nuts. This guy just doesn't show up unless he's in the mood. Right now as it stands Loaiza, a minimum wage pitcher is our 'Ace', and Jon Garland is our #2. With Buehrle's performance last night that puts Colon at #4, and I'd rather have Danny Wright than this pouting pig. We at least played .500 ball without the great Colon, who, with his wonderful performance tonight lost yet another opportunity to gain ground on the Twins and a .500 record.

This 'tub of goo' has become a clubhouse 'problem', and now can't pitch. Get rid of him as soon as possible, we'll be better off without him, and don't be afraid to trade him within our league or division, we always could beat this phony.

I think you are out of your league here. What source(s) do you have that this clubhouse fracas occurs?

 

"Some of our very favorites" would be Maggs, Olivo and Loaiza....and guess what? They all speak spanish as well.

 

I think the whole thing your trying to stir is a load of crap. Did you see how frustrated Colon was after the HR to Manny? Yes, he threw back to back high and wild pitches, but they were thrown with authority. That's how he shows his emotion. The guy's a workhorse and will improve as the season goes on. I wouldn't trade him for Fossum or anyone the Red Sox might be offering except that SS prospect they have. I agree...take the draft picks.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Any idea what the trade market it for Colon?  As it stands now if he walks away after this year we get two first round picks for him, and if what we traded for him is any indication of what is worth is right now, I would rather take the draft picks.

The perception of him is good, and better because of the Sox underachieving so far. Could we get Garciaparra for him, straight up? I doubt it, but that's where I'd start. We can always come down.

[Winning Ugly]

The perception of him is good, and better because of the Sox underachieving so far. Could we get Garciaparra for him, straight up? I doubt it, but that's where I'd start. We can always come down.

That's not where the Red Sox would start, since they would want Colon to compete against the Yanks for the AL Title THIS YEAR. Trading Nomar, even with that SS prospect they have, would be a downgrade for them and a waste of time and money.

[southsider2k5]

The perception of him is good, and better because of the Sox underachieving so far. Could we get Garciaparra for him, straight up? I doubt it, but that's where I'd start. We can always come down.

If we could get Fossum or Nixon and Sanchez (him being the key) for Colon I would do it. We could even build a bigger deal out of it if they wanted to get Gordon also. I don't know much about the Red Sox system past those couple of prospects though. Maybe a 3 way deal including the Marlins to unload some salary could be worked out.

[Harry Chappas]

I am tired of the hurt feelings in our clubhouse. This one is a killer. These are grown men we are talking about here. Paul Konerko should bring in Frank Costanza to interpet the conversation if he feels left out. We can't get along with Royce, Kenny yells at us to much. I have come to realize something with this team and its make-up. This team is the biggest group of f***ing babies and...............it shows out on the field.

 

Bartolo Colon is the best pitcher I have seen in this organization since one year of Hoyt 20 years ago. I really fail to see your hatred for Colon, this si for another day. I am sorry but to gain your wish of a nice cozy locker room is impossible and an excuse for underachieveing losers.

 

I am not in the locker room and take you for your word but when will the jackasses on this team wake up and play to their potential.

 

The juvenile attitude of this team as it relates to this topic shows why we are a loser organization and will be for years to come. Watch Danny Wright tomorrow and you will have your answer as to why Colon needs to stay wheather he is speaking French, Dutch/Irish, or Ebonics.

 

A staff needs five guys we have five major league pitchers now neatly slotted 1-5 (Loaiza, Colon, Garalnd, Buerhle, Wright,) to get rid of Colon leaves us short-handed for next year but we will take the cheap and end up as always, failures in the end. Somehow this never gets old though.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

That's not where the Red Sox would start, since they would want Colon to compete against the Yanks for the AL Title THIS YEAR. Trading Nomar, even with that SS prospect they have, would be a downgrade for them and a waste of time and money.

Maybe. I know little about their SS prospect, but someone said he was good, and Nomar is a fan idol, but if they think the kid can play SS for them 'good enough', and the state of their pitching in light of the Yankees, it's not out of the question.

 

Regardless, that's just one 'possibility'. We've more than just a few holes we could fill with a 'tub of goo'.

[Dick Allen]

Maybe. I know little about their SS prospect, but someone said he was good, and Nomar is a fan idol, but if they think the kid can play SS for them 'good enough', and the state of their pitching in light of the Yankees, it's not out of the question.

 

Regardless, that's just one 'possibility'. We've more than just a few holes we could fill with a 'tub of goo'.

Both you and HSC have posted saying KW is GM by name only, because he crossed EE. What is the real story. He still is at the park, still does the talk shows, still is quoted in the papers. This supposedly happened more than a month ago. If true, some of the media would have caught on by now. And if KW has no power , why is this not public, and just who is calling the personel shots?

[Rex Hudler]

Maybe. I know little about their SS prospect, but someone said he was good, and Nomar is a fan idol, but if they think the kid can play SS for them 'good enough', and the state of their pitching in light of the Yankees, it's not out of the question.

 

Regardless, that's just one 'possibility'. We've more than just a few holes we could fill with a 'tub of goo'.

Both you and HSC have posted saying KW is GM by name only, because he crossed EE. What is the real story. He still is at the park, still does the talk shows, still is quoted in the papers. This supposedly happened more than a month ago. If true, some of the media would have caught on by now. And if KW has no power , why is this not public, and just who is calling the personel shots?

I will admit, that if it is true, it is an awfully strange way of handling business. I have never seen another similar situation before.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Both you and HSC have posted saying KW is GM by name only, because he crossed EE. What is the real story. He still is at the park, still does the talk shows, still is quoted in the papers. This supposedly happened more than a month ago. If true, some of the media would have caught on by now. And if KW has no power , why is this not public, and just who is calling the personel shots?

Ultimately, Einhorn.

There are many 'comlpications' involved, however, disregarding what anyone, myself or HSC claims, think about the last 3 seasons under Williams, and his micro managing style. Do you think that Manuel would have been allowed to fire his batting coach, and hire the replacement on his own, with approvals only? Particularly when Williams hired the guy in the first place, and Foulke, Durham and others said he was KW's 'spy'?

[Guest wsc425]

Any idea what the trade market it for Colon?  As it stands now if he walks away after this year we get two first round picks for him, and if what we traded for him is any indication of what is worth is right now, I would rather take the draft picks.

I bet we could pry Griffey from the Reds. Griffey would do works for the promotions.

[elrockinMT]

If the Sox decide to trade Colon it won't happen till the JM, KW & JR feel they are out of it. ESPN Baseball Tonight says that several teams have inquired about Colon, but were told that the Sox feel they are still in the hunt. It will probably be the last week in July if and when any trading happens. There may be a "White Flag" player dump starting July 25th or so, but I hope not. First I want us to be winning, but secondly I wish the team would make a commitment to keeping players like Colon for more than one year.

 

I am not putting much faith in any of these so called inside information givers that say that Colon is a problem, or that Spanish speaking players are causing trouble. Look at what we have heard before: Kenny Williams is gone, Jerry Manuel is gone, Paul Konerko suffers from a degenerative hip condition, etc. Nothing has panned out. I personally think the language issue is just another blown out of proportion issue too.

[Dick Allen]

Both you and HSC have posted saying KW is GM by name only, because he crossed EE. What is the real story. He still is at the park, still does the talk shows, still is quoted in the papers. This supposedly happened more than a month ago. If true, some of the media would have caught on by now. And if KW has no power , why is this not public, and just who is calling the personel shots?

Ultimately, Einhorn.

There are many 'comlpications' involved, however, disregarding what anyone, myself or HSC claims, think about the last 3 seasons under Williams, and his micro managing style. Do you think that Manuel would have been allowed to fire his batting coach, and hire the replacement on his own, with approvals only? Particularly when Williams hired the guy in the first place, and Foulke, Durham and others said he was KW's 'spy'?

So if the Sox were to make a trade EE would be making it.? I like EE a lot and am glad he is feeling better, but I don't want him making trades. 8 coaches have been fired since JM took over. Changing the hitting coach is probably the cheapest way to shake up a dead team. I'm sure Gary Ward's salary is less than just about everyone except Man so Lee, so firing Ward is no indication KW is powerless. The other thing is , since this was reported more than a month ago, the team may be playing worse than before. I'm sure something happened with KW and EE, and maybe KW was told to go scratch. But I think KW got a reprieve and is still in charge. If not, and KW is keeping his high public profile, it would indicate that this organization has deeper problems than KW and field personel.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

I don't think Williams is as 'high profile' as he once was, even just over a month ago. However, as always, believe what you wish.

[mreye]

Whatever!

[upnorthsox]

I am tired of the hurt feelings in our clubhouse.  This one is a killer.  These are grown men we are talking about here.  Paul Konerko should bring in Frank Costanza to interpet the conversation if he feels left out.  We can't get along with Royce, Kenny yells at us to much.  I have come to realize something with this team and its make-up.  This team is the biggest group of f***ing babies and...............it shows out on the field. 

 

Bartolo Colon is the best pitcher I have seen in this organization since one year of Hoyt 20 years ago.  I really fail to see your hatred for Colon, this si for another day.  I am sorry but to gain your wish of a nice cozy locker room is impossible and an excuse for underachieveing losers.

 

I am not in the locker room and take you for your word but when will the jackasses on this team wake up and play to their potential. 

 

The juvenile attitude of this team as it relates to this topic shows why we are a loser organization and will be for years to come.  Watch Danny Wright tomorrow and you will have your answer as to why Colon needs to stay wheather he is speaking French, Dutch/Irish, or Ebonics.

 

A staff needs five guys we have five major league pitchers now neatly slotted 1-5 (Loaiza, Colon, Garalnd, Buerhle, Wright,) to get rid of Colon leaves us short-handed for next year but we will take the cheap and end up as always, failures in the end.  Somehow this never gets old though.

Amen to that!!!!!!!!!

 

This didn't just start this yr, this is a team that at its core is a bunch of shrinking violets and it's been that way since the 2nd half of 2000.

[Soxplosion]

I dont appreciate if Colon does this but even if he is laughing at them in Spanish, he still stands up for them with his actions. Pegging Hairston in retaliation for Julio pegging Maggs and so on. He seems to like it here.

 

And we have clubhouse leaders like Valentin, who speaks Spanish. I have ripped Valentin for being an idiot in my mind but if Colon was talking crap, I do believe that we could depend on Val to tell everyone. But since he hasnt, I dont think Colons been doing anything...

[Soxplosion]

You know, Maggs is latino as is Colon. I wonder, if Frank had been pegged, would Colon have done anything? Or PK? or any non latino player? I think so but it gets me wondering...

[Guest Ncorgbl]

I am tired of the hurt feelings in our clubhouse.  This one is a killer.  These are grown men we are talking about here.  Paul Konerko should bring in Frank Costanza to interpet the conversation if he feels left out.  We can't get along with Royce, Kenny yells at us to much.  I have come to realize something with this team and its make-up.  This team is the biggest group of f***ing babies and...............it shows out on the field. 

 

Bartolo Colon is the best pitcher I have seen in this organization since one year of Hoyt 20 years ago.  I really fail to see your hatred for Colon, this si for another day.  I am sorry but to gain your wish of a nice cozy locker room is impossible and an excuse for underachieveing losers.

 

I am not in the locker room and take you for your word but when will the jackasses on this team wake up and play to their potential. 

 

The juvenile attitude of this team as it relates to this topic shows why we are a loser organization and will be for years to come.  Watch Danny Wright tomorrow and you will have your answer as to why Colon needs to stay wheather he is speaking French, Dutch/Irish, or Ebonics.

 

A staff needs five guys we have five major league pitchers now neatly slotted 1-5 (Loaiza, Colon, Garalnd, Buerhle, Wright,) to get rid of Colon leaves us short-handed for next year but we will take the cheap and end up as always, failures in the end.  Somehow this never gets old though.

Amen to that!!!!!!!!!

 

This didn't just start this yr, this is a team that at its core is a bunch of shrinking violets and it's been that way since the 2nd half of 2000.

This team, and the clubhouse in paticular isn't much different than any other club, but the point is that it was!

Led by Valentin, and joined in by JB and Durham, the place was like a frat house, and most everyone liked each other. That changed in 2001 and since. If you wish to go with the 'millionaire adults' argument, have at it, no problem. But don't for a moment think that regardless of the job, the money or the age, that people are anything but people, and working conditions are just that too.

 

I do not 'hate' the guy, I just haven't seen anything to like. I will argue, however, that Colon is the best, or even in the top 10 since Hoyt. His record is not close to Buehrle's last year, and he's on pace to not have as good a year for us as Garland and Wright did last season. So far, here for the Sox which is my measure, that 'Tub of Goo' has only brought his reputation and attitude here, nothing else.

If he won't perform for us, who wants him?

[Harry Chappas]

If he won't perform for us, who wants him?

If we had a GM you would see plenty. I bet you he gets as much if not more than any pitcher since Kevin Brown, why? Because on any given day he can get anyone out. The reason he is 6-6 goes back to every Buerhle argument over the last week. He gives us a chance to win every time out there. It isn't one, two, three good/great outings than two mediocore and one bad one. He is a victim of pitching in a hitters park as well.

 

Watch the Yankees and Red Sox line-up to get him.

 

Oh and on another note. The 2000 team was great to watch but they were not a very talented team. I sure as s*** do not want JB back but I guess if the clubhouse is fun I would rather have him than Colon as well. Who on that team to we miss, that is playing elsewhere? KW did not cause the demise of Eldred, Sirotka, Parque, or Baldwin.

[Soxfest]

Colon is not worth cash he is going to want

[Dick Allen]

If we had a GM you would see plenty.  I bet you he gets as much if not more than any pitcher since Kevin Brown, why?  Because on any given day he can get anyone out.  The reason he is 6-6 goes back to every Buerhle argument over the last week.  He gives us a chance to win every time out there.  It isn't one, two, three good/great outings than two mediocore and one bad one.  He is a victim of pitching in a hitters park as well.

 

Watch the Yankees and Red Sox line-up to get him.

 

Oh and on another note.  The 2000 team was great to watch but they were not a very talented team.  I sure as s*** do not want JB back but I guess if the clubhouse is fun I would rather have him than Colon as well.  Who on that team to we miss, that is playing elsewhere?  KW did not cause the demise of Eldred, Sirotka, Parque, or Baldwin.

This argument against Colon is ridiculous. Its almost as ridiculous as the theory KW is no longer the GM. These people are grown men, they care about their paychecks more than about someone maybe giving them crap in Spanish. If something like that bothers them they should be playing in a beer league. This personality crap is so overated. The biggest a-hole in the world is Barry Bonds, his team was in the World Series last year, and with a different group of guys in first place this year.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

If we had a GM you would see plenty.  I bet you he gets as much if not more than any pitcher since Kevin Brown, why?  Because on any given day he can get anyone out.  The reason he is 6-6 goes back to every Buerhle argument over the last week.  He gives us a chance to win every time out there.  It isn't one, two, three good/great outings than two mediocore and one bad one.  He is a victim of pitching in a hitters park as well.

 

Watch the Yankees and Red Sox line-up to get him.

 

Oh and on another note.  The 2000 team was great to watch but they were not a very talented team.  I sure as s*** do not want JB back but I guess if the clubhouse is fun I would rather have him than Colon as well.  Who on that team to we miss, that is playing elsewhere?  KW did not cause the demise of Eldred, Sirotka, Parque, or Baldwin.

Of course they will, that's why we should trade him now. We should hold someone up for a ton (no pun intended) that Colon would bring.

We were 'in the game' last night for about 12 minutes, if I recall.

 

Colon is not pitching for us, his record shows that.

 

Seeing as all of those pitchers pitched their arms off (literally) for us, yea, damaged goods we don't want. But I sure as hell appreciate what they gave us. For that one season they were one of the most talented staffs around.