beck72 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Because the Drays are apparently looking for a BMac type arm in return. http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/ex_rayvi...oel_sherman.htm My thinking is yes. Crawford just turned 25 and is locked up for 4 more yrs and IIRC an option for a 5th. The sox need a speed type guy like Carl in their lineup. He'd improve the OF defense, with him in LF and BA in CF. The sox could then hold onto Freddy. Or trade him and insert Haeger [or an arm they get if they trade Fields, which should net them a very solid SP prospect ready to step in or a 1st or 2nd yr pro]. Cooper seems really high on Haeger. The SP should be better with an in shape Buehrle, and a fully rested Jose. The key area is improving the bullpen, which wouldn't affect BMac at all. Hell, look what Minny has done with Santana and four bodies. The bullpen and a versatile lineup. Crawford would singlehandedly change the complexion of the team Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 If all it took was McCarthy and another prospect, I do that deal in a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 No and here's my reasoning. B-Mac is much more of a sure thing than Haegar. He's had prior success in the starter's role before at the major league level, while Haegar in his only start hasn't. I would prefer to trade a Contreras or Garcia to say a Texas or San Diego for a deal including John Danks or Cesar Carillo. You could then on-trade either with Josh Fields for Carl Crawford. Tampa Bay gets a starter with #1 potential and a building block at 3rd base for the future. You save about $10M with this deal, which you could then use in FA or re-signing guys like Crede to long - term deals. I think it's very important with the way our payroll is structured to keep a young guy who could be a key contributor for you because he's so cheap. QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 27, 2006 -> 10:18 PM) If all it took was McCarthy and another prospect, I do that deal in a second. I think it's imporant to remember fathom we're hardly stocked with quality pitching in the minor leagues. If we keep Buehrle and Garcia and they both leave as FA's the next off-season (assuming both aren't re-signed), that's then 2 holes in the rotation you have to fill, one most likely from FA and the other probably being Lance Broadway (3rd/4th starter at best most likely). But if you trade one of those 2, then that's only 1 guy's spot instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Well, what that trade would mean of course is prioritize 2007 at the cost of 2008 (for the reasons DBAH0 stated). I'd feel a little better about it if we had a plethora of young starters in the minors with major league potential... but from what I understand, we do not. Here is my answer... if you can get Crawford for BMac and an offensive prospect, AND trade Pods and/or other offensive prospects (Fields maybe) for a couple young prospect pitchers who project well as major leaguers in a year or two... then I'm in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Yes-we have a veteran team that must win now as put together. 2008 should not be a thought as far as the major league team goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S720 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 27, 2006 -> 07:18 AM) If all it took was McCarthy and another prospect, I do that deal in a second. It would be absurd NOT TO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I don't think TB would trade Crawford for BMac. They want a top of the rotation starter and BMac isn't that, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Crawford is awesome. I would love him on our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Sep 27, 2006 -> 08:49 AM) Crawford is awesome. I would love him on our team. Agreed...I would definately deal BMAC for Crawford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Just remember if McCarthy were to be traded the rotation would get 5 years older and a few million more expensive next year. Plus only 3 starters are locked up beyond '08 (Buehrle & Garcia are not) and one of those 3 is a 52 year old who has been horrible since comming back from injury. If McCarthy is dealt for a position player the rotation in 2008 could be horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangar18 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 QUOTE(beck72 @ Sep 27, 2006 -> 05:38 AM) Because the Drays are apparently looking for a BMac type arm in return. http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/ex_rayvi...oel_sherman.htm My thinking is yes. Crawford just turned 25 and is locked up for 4 more yrs and IIRC an option for a 5th. The sox need a speed type guy like Carl in their lineup. He'd improve the OF defense, with him in LF and BA in CF. The sox could then hold onto Freddy. Or trade him and insert Haeger [or an arm they get if they trade Fields, which should net them a very solid SP prospect ready to step in or a 1st or 2nd yr pro]. Cooper seems really high on Haeger. The SP should be better with an in shape Buehrle, and a fully rested Jose. The key area is improving the bullpen, which wouldn't affect BMac at all. Hell, look what Minny has done with Santana and four bodies. The bullpen and a versatile lineup. Crawford would singlehandedly change the complexion of the team Thoughts? I'd do that so fast .................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Sep 27, 2006 -> 09:04 AM) Nope. Stop repeating what the girls at Pinch say to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 27, 2006 -> 09:04 AM) Just remember if McCarthy were to be traded the rotation would get 5 years older and a few million more expensive next year. Plus only 3 starters are locked up beyond '08 (Buehrle & Garcia are not) and one of those 3 is a 52 year old who has been horrible since comming back from injury. If McCarthy is dealt for a position player the rotation in 2008 could be horrendous. Which is what I was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 At the end of 2005, I wouldn't have even considered it. Even if Scott Podsednik had just come off a sh*t season that year. Because at that point, BMac had come thorugh repeatedly and given absolutely dominant performances as a starting pitcher. As we saw in 2005, pitching is simply put the most important ingredient to building a championship team, and if you have young pitching, that's even better. However, in 2006, BMac went to the bullpen. He didn't get nearly as many innings as he should have gotten. Ozzie's use of him was a disaster. He had some very good performances, but those were intersperced with plenty of 10-day-rest bad starts. If I was 100% confident that 2006 had not done permanent damage to BMac, either through his head or through his mechanics, I would still not do the deal. But I am very concerned that the way Ozzie has used him this year will wind up having set him back several years in his career, or maybe even robbed him of the chance to be the dominant pitcher we saw at the end of 2005 when he was destroying whoever he pitched against and dueled Santana to a draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Sep 27, 2006 -> 09:04 AM) I'd do that so fast .................... I would do it faster than that. I think B-Mac could be good, but I think a lack of leadoff hitter and poor outfield defense hurt the Sox significantly this year. Crawford would help the Sox both offensively and defensively. However, I would still try to convince TB that Garcia or Vzquez would be a better fit for them and then pick up some of the salary at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox It To Em Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 In a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I'll give it a big Hell Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) No. Young, inexpensive pitchers who've proven themself should be held in higher regard than positional players -- even those of Crawfords stature -- every instance. I've stated my argument before, but because I'm off to class in 4 minutes I'll make it short -- production can be compensated on the field across players. For NOT having to surrender McCarthy, among another prospect, replacements for Podsednik and Uribe (two obvious weak spots) could immediately improve our offense. An offense which doesn't require such an improvement, quite frankly. Ultimately, I believe this board has drastically underrated McCarthy's value to our future. It's easier to replace a LF of Podsednik's stature than a starting pitcher of Garcia's. Want a Carl Crawford? Develop one. Don't complain or say, "everyone would want one." Put some resources into that cesspool some call the minor leagues. Edited September 27, 2006 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 What's going to be fun is seeing how McCarthy's start tonight will completely change the opinion of a lot of people on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 27, 2006 -> 09:58 AM) What's going to be fun is seeing how McCarthy's start tonight will completely change the opinion of a lot of people on this site. You know what? For me, it might...because right now, I am really, really worried about what this season has done to BMac. Especially after this last month...I'm wondering if his confidence is shot, I'm wondering if his mechanics are shot, I'm wondering if he's out of shape because he hasn't been used right, I'm wondering if he'll ever get the touch back on the curve ball and changeup he had last year but hasn't had since that outing against the Twins. One good start from him tonight would go a very, very long way towards convincing me that he'll still be as good as he should have been without having to work from the pen this season. The BMac at the end of last year...I basically want a Pujols in exchange for him. He looked as good as any starter in baseball, and given his age, that was dynamite. But if Ozzie permanently damaged him this season...then there's some reason to consider moving him while his value is still high. I just don't want to be caught with BMac doing a Kip Wells/Jon Rauch type collapse because Ozzie screwed him up and we didn't trade him when we saw the warning signs. Edited September 27, 2006 by Balta1701 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 If we did this, we would still need a lead off hitter, which would mean we would have to unload either Fields, Sweeney or Anderson or all to deal for a lead off man, because Crawford isnt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Yes and tomorrow. Just not sold on BMac. I think KW would have an easier time filling a rotation spot than finding a very good outfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 27, 2006 -> 05:18 PM) If we did this, we would still need a lead off hitter, which would mean we would have to unload either Fields, Sweeney or Anderson or all to deal for a lead off man, because Crawford isnt it. Crawford is a special, special talent though. I don't care if he can't lead off...he's the type of guy that can become a Hall of Fame caliber player for the next 10 years for your franchise. As someone said earlier, McCarthy needs to prove to us he's not another Kip Wells/Jon Rauch. I'm a McCarthy fan, but you can't pass up a talent like Crawford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Sep 27, 2006 -> 12:18 PM) If we did this, we would still need a lead off hitter, which would mean we would have to unload either Fields, Sweeney or Anderson or all to deal for a lead off man, because Crawford isnt it. What I would ultimately love to see is Crawford in LF in exchange for BMac... and throw Uribe, Pods and Fields out there for a good SP prospect for 2008 and a SS with good OBP and decent defense - he'd be the leadoff guy. That's in the ideal world. I don't know what teams are out there with that type of SS, and some good SP's in their system, who would make the deal for some combo of Pods/Uribe/Fields/Gload/prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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