Stocks and investing thread

[Rex Kickass]

Balance sheet shows 5 Billion in Assets, 4 Billion in Liabilities. Their fleet of planes is worth roughly the same as their liabilities.

[kapkomet]

Balance sheet shows 5 Billion in Assets, 4 Billion in Liabilities. Their fleet of planes is worth roughly the same as their liabilities.

And IIRC their fleet is quite a bit newer then the rest.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

And IIRC their fleet is quite a bit newer then the rest.

Newer fleet of Airbus A319/20/21 planes along with a set of Embraer regional jets. They only have 2 species of plane, to cut maintenance costs. And in general, their contuniung costs for labor and other factors are lower than other airlines because they didn't come into the industry encumbered by a lot of the parasitic cost elements the traditional airlines had (and to a certain degree still have).

 

[Rex Kickass]

They have about 140 planes. 100 A320s and about 35 or 40 E-190s. They have been selling a few planes to cut down capacity.

[Cknolls]

How do you get that they are "actively reducing it" from that quote? That quotes says, to me, that 5/3 will only see benefit if more borrowers come to them because of decreased rates. Which is of course the whole point.

 

And your definition of a bear market is not the same as the one I've been taught - a 20% drop from a high. We aren't there yet.

 

 

According to the Dow Theory, we have been in a BEAR MKT since July. Tomato Tamahto.

[NorthSideSox72]

According to the Dow Theory, we have been in a BEAR MKT since July. Tomato Tamahto.

Well, I find the Dow to be a crappy market measure anyway. But that's a whole different discussion.

 

[southsider2k5]

Don't look now, but the dead cat is bouncing. We are looking at a 500 point swing intraday on the futures.

[Cknolls]

The sharpest rallies occur during bear mkts.

[Balta1701]

Don't look now, but the dead cat is bouncing. We are looking at a 500 point swing intraday on the futures.

Based on what I'm reading, a good percentage of that is a rumor that the federal government may step in and use tax dollars to bail out some of these insurers that everyone is worried will go under and take half the financial market with them.

 

Free Market capitalism rules!

[Cknolls]

Why would BAC be issuing convertible prefferred today?

 

A) Because they have to.

 

B) Because they would be stupid not to.

 

 

You make the call.

[mr_genius]

Dow Jones finished up 300 today. It's a pretty big relief that the market didn't tank these past couple days after the big losses in overseas markets on Monday.

Edited January 23, 2008 by mr_genius

[DBAHO]

Yeah I think it's going to be another decent day for us down here when the market opens in 5.

 

Also did I read this right (saw this on reuters headlines);

 

* Bank of America Corp said net income in the fourth

quarter tumbled 95 percent, to $268 million, or 5 cents a share,

from $5.26 billion, or $1.16, a year earlier.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Yeah I think it's going to be another decent day for us down here when the market opens in 5.

 

Also did I read this right (saw this on reuters headlines);

 

* Bank of America Corp said net income in the fourth

quarter tumbled 95 percent, to $268 million, or 5 cents a share,

from $5.26 billion, or $1.16, a year earlier.

 

 

that's interesting, because my bank's stock did VERY well today.

[Balta1701]

Not sure how to fit it into the puzzle of threads, but figured it was worth reading.

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Wednesday the White House and Congress are negotiating a shortsighted economic stimulus package and should focus instead on encouraging immigration and helping strapped homeowners.

 

"We can't borrow our way out of this. The jig is up," Bloomberg said during a speech to the U.S. Conference of Mayors, which honored his environmental efforts.

 

The billionaire mayor, who is said to be considering an independent presidential bid yet denies that he is a candidate, said the $150 billion stimulus package being hammered out between Democratic and Republican leaders won't be enough.

 

"There's just one problem: It's not going to make much of a difference because we've already been running huge deficits," Bloomberg said. "If we spend all the money right now, and there is no recovery because of it, then we don't have a second hand to play."

...

 

The metropolitan mayor used a farming analogy to heap scorn on the current crop of Washington leaders.

 

"They spent most of this past decade when things were good running up bills with reckless abandon, and when the economy started heading for the ditch, the special interest giveaways got even bigger. I think they ate the seed corn without worrying about the next year's crop. Here we are, the seed corn is gone, and all we've got is a barn full of IOU's," he said.

 

Details of the stimulus package are still being negotiated, but the centerpiece of the measure is expected to be a tax rebate similar to the $300-$600 checks sent out in the summer of 2001. The emergency measure would more than double last year's deficit spending of $163 billion, according to congressional budget estimates.

 

Bloomberg argued that the government's first goal should be to stop the bleeding in the housing sector. "What good is a rebate going to do for a family who's about to lose the place that they sleep in?" he said. Keeping people in their homes, he added, "is more important than giving everyone a check."

 

Instead, the mayor argued, the government should:

 

_ Adopt a capital budget to oversee long-term infrastructure spending, instead of the current year-to-year spending.

 

_ Offer financial counseling, modified loans and, in some cases, subsidized loans to homeowners who find themselves unable to afford their mortgages.

 

_Overhaul immigration laws to bring more workers in, not keep workers out.

 

"Illegal immigration has become the pandering politician's best friend," he said. "We have to stop turning away people that our economy needs."

[Balta1701]

So, I'd love for any of y'all who understand what this means could elaborate a bit on how exactly this might affect the tax bill of an average individual earing about 40k a year.

The Bush administration and House congressional leaders are nearing a tentative agreement on legislation designed to stimulate the slowing U.S. economy, lawmakers said.

 

``We're hopeful,'' House Republican leader John Boehner said last night. He said there may be an announcement as soon as today. The discussions involve an economic stimulus plan of as much as $150 billion in corporate investment incentives and personal tax rebates.

 

Boehner, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson met three times for a total of five hours yesterday in the U.S. Capitol to iron out details.

 

An agreement was near after Pelosi dropped her bid for additional unemployment benefits and food stamp funding in exchange for a rebate providing all income-earners at least $300, said two congressional aides familiar with the talks. Boehner had opposed giving a rebate to the poorest workers who don't pay any income taxes.

 

The proposal under discussion would give larger rebates to those who pay income taxes, and families with children would get an extra $300 per child, subject to a cap that is still being discussed, the aide said.

Krugman's disappointed Here's the CNN version of the article.

American taxpayers would get checks of several hundred dollars from the federal government under a plan to stimulate the economy, sources said Thursday.

 

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is the administration's point person for the economic stimulus plan.

 

Congressional leaders of both parties were talking with their membership to sell the plan, sources said.

 

Sources on Capitol Hill and at the Treasury Department said congressional and White House negotiators agreed upon checks of $600 per individual and $1,200 per couple who paid income tax and who filed jointly.

 

People who did not pay federal income taxes but who had earned income of more than $3,000 would get checks of $300 per individual or $600 per couple.

 

A Democratic aide and Republican aide said there will be an additional amount per child, which could be in the neighborhood of $300.

 

Those who earn up to $75,000 individually or up to $150,000 as a couple will be eligible for the payments, said Republican and Democratic sources familiar with the tentative deal.

 

Checks could be in taxpayers' mailboxes by June, according to an Associated Press report.

 

The agreement in principle includes a robust package of business incentives.

 

The Treasury Department still must analyze the numbers to determine the price tag of the stimulus package, sources said.

 

To get to the agreement, Democrats dropped calls for increases in food stamps and an extension of unemployment compensation. Republicans agreed to allow people who pay Social Security taxes but not income taxes to get the checks, sources said.

So, as far as I can tell, they're saying that every taxpayer who pays in to the system should basically be getting $600 taken off their bill for a single person and $1200 taken off for a couple. So if I'm a taxpayer, and I paid like $5000 or so last year and expect to pay a similar amount this year, I should expect that I'll receive a check for $1200 (for a couple) in June and should see my total tax bill drop by $1200 for the year. Am I understanding this correctly?

[southsider2k5]

So, I'd love for any of y'all who understand what this means could elaborate a bit on how exactly this might affect the tax bill of an average individual earing about 40k a year.

Krugman's disappointed Here's the CNN version of the article.

So, as far as I can tell, they're saying that every taxpayer who pays in to the system should basically be getting $600 taken off their bill for a single person and $1200 taken off for a couple. So if I'm a taxpayer, and I paid like $5000 or so last year and expect to pay a similar amount this year, I should expect that I'll receive a check for $1200 (for a couple) in June and should see my total tax bill drop by $1200 for the year. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

It looks to me like it is just a rebate, nothing permanent.

[Balta1701]

It looks to me like it is just a rebate, nothing permanent.

So basically they're giving you $1200 early, with the expectation that you'll owe an additional $1200 next year when you pay your taxes?

[southsider2k5]

So basically they're giving you $1200 early, with the expectation that you'll owe an additional $1200 next year when you pay your taxes?

 

I would say it would be like buying a cellphone and getting a rebate. You pay your 07 taxes, then they send you a rebate based on their formula. I'll have to hit the newswires to be sure.

[Balta1701]

I would say it would be like buying a cellphone and getting a rebate. You pay your 07 taxes, then they send you a rebate based on their formula. I'll have to hit the newswires to be sure.

Ok, so this would be the equivalent of a 1 time tax cut of $1200...and so if I were to say, have already been planning to take a honeymoon this summer on my 1 year anniversary, I might just think that it's paid for by that rebate.

 

(Not that I mind paying the taxes of course, as the communist hippy that I am. I'll just stick myself into the Ron Paul wing of saying "Ok, if they're giving it to me I'll take it")

[kapkomet]

Ok, so this would be the equivalent of a 1 time tax cut of $1200...and so if I were to say, have already been planning to take a honeymoon this summer on my 1 year anniversary, I might just think that it's paid for by that rebate.

 

(Not that I mind paying the taxes of course, as the communist hippy that I am. I'll just stick myself into the Ron Paul wing of saying "Ok, if they're giving it to me I'll take it")

 

Beautiful.

 

Enjoy your honeymoon that was just payed for by the rest of us.

 

[Cknolls]

This is the same type of rebate as the previous one in 2003? (I believe). Remember when people were filing their taxes the following year and were b****ing they had to claim the rebate as income on their taxes. This is feelgood politics at its best!! The dollar index loves the stimulus package. Hyperinflation here we come.

[Cknolls]

BAC's preferred offering now up to $13 billion. So it started at $2 bil. went to $6 bil. by the end of yesterday, and is now $13 bil.

[kapkomet]

This is the same type of rebate as the previous one in 2003? (I believe). Remember when people were filing their taxes the following year and were b****ing they had to claim the rebate as income on their taxes. This is feelgood politics at its best!! The dollar index loves the stimulus package. Hyperinflation here we come.

That's not how I'm reading this. It's a rebate for taxes already paid in, not an "advance" like the 2003 was.

[southsider2k5]

Ok, so this would be the equivalent of a 1 time tax cut of $1200...and so if I were to say, have already been planning to take a honeymoon this summer on my 1 year anniversary, I might just think that it's paid for by that rebate.

 

(Not that I mind paying the taxes of course, as the communist hippy that I am. I'll just stick myself into the Ron Paul wing of saying "Ok, if they're giving it to me I'll take it")

 

That is how I have understood the proposals up to this point. I haven't explored the newest one, but I am guessing it is along this same line.

[Cknolls]

The latest I read was $600/indiv $1200/couple 75k/150k. Plus $300/child. Also partial rebates for those exceeding 75k/150k limits, I believe up to 87k/174k.