Was our best starting pitcher in the bullpen all year ?

[nitetrain8601]

 

You have a problem with McCarthy because other people hype him up. Interesting...

 

Actually yes. You would've thought this guy was having his wing built right next to Jeremy Reed's in the Hall of Fame with the way people talk about him.

Edited September 29, 2006 by nitetrain8601

[ShoeLessRob]

Maybe, but it will take a long while before people stop blaming Ozzie and KW.

We definitely need to trade one of our starters and let him start.

I wouldn't mind trading two and getting another lefty starter as well.

Do you guys think Mark Redman is a stiff? Again, he is a free agent and won 11

of KC's games. Not bad for such a crap team.

Detroit made a masterful move getting an old guy lefty like Rodgers.

 

Rotation

Mark B

Jon

Brandon

Fred/Vas (other one traded)

Redman or Moyer

 

trade Jose (I like Jose)

Trading Fred or Vas and Jose for some stud middle relievers and/or leftfielder.

 

You said this before .. Redman had a 5.71 ERA, that is alot more then any one of our starters. I don't really consider that an improve ... at all. Oh and ROGERS may be old but he had a 3.46 ERA in '05 and now a 3.79 this year ... Redman can't even hold his jock strap.

Edited September 29, 2006 by TheOcho

[nitetrain8601]

I understand that. But shouldn't your dislike fall on the people that hype him up, rather than the pitcher. Shame on him for putting up great numbers in the minor leagues, and shame on him for not having a chance to start this season.....

 

To me, it's also his stuff. I don't think he'll have those high K totals over the course of a season. He'll have more K's than Buehrle, but all I see him as is a RH Buehrle with a teeny bit better stuff. He has a great change and his curve was great last year, but his fastball was as straight as an arrow and he didn't have the velocity to get by with that last year. This year, he still has a great change, his curve became a bit worse with the new overhand motion and his fastball still isn't enough to fool hitters over the course of a season. I'd like to see him at least develop another pitch like a 2-seamer before I deem him God like so many others have.

[greg775]

I'm not necessarily calling for Redman, I'm just wondering if you think he would

be a nice addition.

Don't you agree we need a lefty?

[beautox]

OR people like you will realize what kind of talent he really is and start saying stuff like "where was that change up all of last year?" Brandon is going to be very good next year, book it.

I agree McCarthy is going to be very good next year.

 

Mark Redman blows and Jamie Moyer hasn't had that great of a year since 2003. I'd rather have Haeger start compared to either of those two and I want Haeger off this team come next year.

Why the Haeger hate? Chuck is a winner, and if by some chance he is in the rotation next year i think he will post a league average ERA and keep his team in the game, and alleviate the BP. and if in the BP i think he will excell.

[Dam8610]

While we're talking about how good McCarthy can be, anyone want to join the fan club?

[beautox]

sign me up.

[Kalapse]

Don't you agree we need a lefty?

Not if he sucks.

[Heads22]

Not if he sucks.

 

 

Ahhh...you mean the Mark Buehrle corrollary?

[Rowand44]

Why the Haeger hate? Chuck is a winner, and if by some chance he is in the rotation next year i think he will post a league average ERA and keep his team in the game, and alleviate the BP. and if in the BP i think he will excell.

It's nothing against him personally but he's a knuckler. I'm racist against knuckleballers.

[witesoxfan]

To me, it's also his stuff. I don't think he'll have those high K totals over the course of a season. He'll have more K's than Buehrle, but all I see him as is a RH Buehrle with a teeny bit better stuff. He has a great change and his curve was great last year, but his fastball was as straight as an arrow and he didn't have the velocity to get by with that last year. This year, he still has a great change, his curve became a bit worse with the new overhand motion and his fastball still isn't enough to fool hitters over the course of a season. I'd like to see him at least develop another pitch like a 2-seamer before I deem him God like so many others have.

 

McCarthy had good enough stuff coming out of the minor leagues to be a middle of the rotation starter. Guess what, he listened to what you want him to do about however long ago, and he has started to develop a 2-seamer.

 

Pitchers can get by with a straight fastball so long as their complementary pitches are good enough. From what I have seen of Santana, his fastball is straight as hell, but he keeps hitters off-balance unbelievably well with his change and curve. That's just plain and simply having good command of his pitches. That's what McCarthy possesses too...adding a 2-seamer to that, and having good command and control of that is only going to make him better.

 

(fwiw, Santana's changeup is the best in the league, and his slider is nothing to scoff at either...if you can throw a 75 MPH changeup with a 96 MPH fastball, and then mix in an 89 MPH slider too, while having good command and control, the other team is done almost every time. McCarthy could potentially at some point down the line develop into a pitcher like that, but it's not next year)

[beautox]

It's nothing against him personally but he's a knuckler. I'm racist against knuckleballers.

lol its ok, when Haeger continues to dominate there will plenty of room on the Chuck love train. I'm kinda curious as to who the youngest knuckler to ever debut was or if its Haeger.

[BobDylan]

My personal feeling is when they traded El Duque for Vazquez in spring training, they never intended for Vazquez to pitch one inning this year in a Sox uni. I think they acquired him with the intention of finding someone stupid enough to take on his fat contract and making B-Mac the 5th starter.

 

That doesn't make much sense, but I did think he was acquired to get dealt at the deadline for other needs. Too bad this didn't happen.

 

(fwiw, Santana's changeup is the best in the league, and his slider is nothing to scoff at either...if you can throw a 75 MPH changeup with a 96 MPH fastball, and then mix in an 89 MPH slider too, while having good command and control, the other team is done almost every time. McCarthy could potentially at some point down the line develop into a pitcher like that, but it's not next year)

 

Santana's curve is a better pitch than it used to be, but just in itself, it's nothing to fear. He's gotten more command of it this season, but in years past it was nothing more than a show me pitch.

[nitetrain8601]

McCarthy had good enough stuff coming out of the minor leagues to be a middle of the rotation starter. Guess what, he listened to what you want him to do about however long ago, and he has started to develop a 2-seamer.

 

Pitchers can get by with a straight fastball so long as their complementary pitches are good enough. From what I have seen of Santana, his fastball is straight as hell, but he keeps hitters off-balance unbelievably well with his change and curve. That's just plain and simply having good command of his pitches. That's what McCarthy possesses too...adding a 2-seamer to that, and having good command and control of that is only going to make him better.

 

(fwiw, Santana's changeup is the best in the league, and his slider is nothing to scoff at either...if you can throw a 75 MPH changeup with a 96 MPH fastball, and then mix in an 89 MPH slider too, while having good command and control, the other team is done almost every time. McCarthy could potentially at some point down the line develop into a pitcher like that, but it's not next year)

 

I thought Santana clocked in at 97-98. Anyway, McCarthy doesn't have a fastball like that and probably never will. There's a big difference. That's why I was saying, he doesn't have enough velocity to get away with his fastball. Like you said, a 75 MPH changeup with an at least 96MPH fastball is devastating because we're talking a good 21MPH difference with pinpoint location, control, and coming from the leftside.

[chisoxdavid]

Bmac should host his own radio, tv show.

He should run for office.

Never has a guy done so little and gotten so much praise.

 

I mean I hope he does well, but man, the manlove.

You must not be a Bears fan.........Rex up until this year. While I always wanted him to be the QB I was never up his arse.

 

 

 

As for the original question............Was our best starting pitcher in the bullpen all year? Yah, and our best players were in the bench and minors............

[witesoxfan]

I thought Santana clocked in at 97-98. Anyway, McCarthy doesn't have a fastball like that and probably never will. There's a big difference. That's why I was saying, he doesn't have enough velocity to get away with his fastball. Like you said, a 75 MPH changeup with an at least 96MPH fastball is devastating because we're talking a good 21MPH difference with pinpoint location, control, and coming from the leftside.

 

No where was I ever comparing McCarthy to Santana. Put that on the record, and let the public know. Santana is a god right now...perfect mechanics, perfect pitches, great control, great stuff...there is no competition.

 

However, what I was doing, was basically making a plain example as to how a guy with a straight fastball can not only be good, but in fact be absolutely outstanding, SO LONG AS he has good secondary pitches. Without those, he's fistfooked, and he's still pitching in A.

 

 

 

And FWIW...Santana is 94-97. He touches 98 when he reaches back, but on a regular basis, he rarely touches 98.