Leading off for the 2007 white sox will be....

[Chisoxfn]

If it's Pierre or Figgins, Ozzie wins, and our offense, the team, and thus the fanbase all lose. I don't give a damn how fast these guys are or if they can bunt, neither of them can produce runs, neither can throw, and neither can get on base. That is BAD.

Umm, Figgins has a pretty darn good arm.

[whitesoxfan101]

Umm, Figgins has a pretty darn good arm.

 

I suppose. If we are going to get some OBP challenged leadoff man though, at least make it somebody like Rollins who will get some extra base hits, RBI's, and produce some runs to make up for the lack of OBP.

 

And as for the comment by Tony, you are right, however wouldn't you rather have better pitching AND a high OBP leadoff man? It is possible IMO.

[greg775]

I have a feeling KW would rather quit than watch Pierre or Figgins next

year. I don't think we have to worry about him getting one of the 2 for

Oz. Oz likes managing the white sox. There will be no ultimatums.

KW doesn't want Pierre, at least I hope not.

[southsider2k5]

Thing is we did, last year. He hasn't been the same since his groin injury last year prior to the ASG.

 

Pods had hernia surgery and between that and the extra month of the season, self-admittedly wasn't able to do enough to get ready for the 06 season.

[RockRaines]

I suppose. If we are going to get some OBP challenged leadoff man though, at least make it somebody like Rollins who will get some extra base hits, RBI's, and produce some runs to make up for the lack of OBP.

 

And as for the comment by Tony, you are right, however wouldn't you rather have better pitching AND a high OBP leadoff man? It is possible IMO.

Rollins scores more runs than most of the MLB. He would fill 2 holes, SS and Leadoff.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'll take an even bet right now with anyone interested... Pods will have a better year next year than Pierre (assuming both play regularly and lead off somewhere).

 

But, I'd rather not have either of them. Pierre just isn't much of an upgrade from Pods, so why bother? Furcal, or maybe Rollins, would be my ideal choices. To me, OBP is far and away the #1 factor for a leadoff hitter. Heck, I'd rather have Gload lead off than Pierre or Pods.

 

I do see what people are saying about Ozzie's ozzieball thing. He wants speed and bunts. Fine. But if we are going to bother upgrading Pods, then do it substantially - not just a wee bit more speed, but a wee bit more speed AND a higher OBP.

 

I do have to ask, though, because I really don't know - what is Rollins' defense like?

[RockRaines]

I'll take an even bet right now with anyone interested... Pods will have a better year next year than Pierre (assuming both play regularly and lead off somewhere).

 

But, I'd rather not have either of them. Pierre just isn't much of an upgrade from Pods, so why bother? Furcal, or maybe Rollins, would be my ideal choices. To me, OBP is far and away the #1 factor for a leadoff hitter. Heck, I'd rather have Gload lead off than Pierre or Pods.

 

I do see what people are saying about Ozzie's ozzieball thing. He wants speed and bunts. Fine. But if we are going to bother upgrading Pods, then do it substantially - not just a wee bit more speed, but a wee bit more speed AND a higher OBP.

 

I do have to ask, though, because I really don't know - what is Rollins' defense like?

pierre did lead the league in hits this year, I do not think PODS was anywhere close.

[NorthSideSox72]

pierre did lead the league in hits this year, I do not think PODS was anywhere close.

I'll clarify... Pods will have a better OBP than Pierre.

 

I know it isn't the popular opinion around here, but after watching him all year, I think Pods had a number of problems this year - all of which can easily be solved (and makes him likely to bounce back):

 

1. He never did recover from the hernia, with the lack of off-season.

2. He tried to be a different hitter, take a lot of pitches and try to drive the ball (and not bunt), but then he forced himself into 2 strikes constantly.

3. Watching him in up-close shots, seeing him take so many pitches, watching his already pedestrian defense get even worse, and seeing his high number of pickoffs and late jumps... I think he has vision problems. The guy blinks more than anyone I've ever seen.

4. By mid-year, with the pressure on, he mentally jacked himself. I actually agree with Ozzie on this - he was forcing everything (steal attempts, trying to take walks, alley hitting, etc.).

 

All that said, I think he'll recover somewhat, but still only be a guy who gets you .340-.350 in OBP (.290 BA), 70% steals (going down as he attempts more), no power and average-at-best defense in LF. Very Pierre-like.

 

I'd rather have a better OBP guy who also plays good D at his position and can get a bunt down. A little power is nice too.

[CanOfCorn]

Pierre has had two bad OBP seasons, but before this year, he had a .355 lifetime and right now, according to Baseball Prospectus it's .350 and a .303 lifetime BA.

 

He's a slap hitter that puts the ball in play. True, he doesn't walk a lot. His high was 55 in 2004, but he also doesn't strike out a lot. His high was 52 in 2002.

 

I'm not saying we should sign him, I'm just saying you can't take one year as a sample. He actually played better when Ozzie was coaching in Florida.

 

And as for injury-prone players...don't include Dye in that discussion. His injury was a fluke. You can't predict fouling a ball off your leg and breaking it. To me, injury prone players are ones that have hamstring or groin troubles constantly, or back trouble. The things that always pop up and consistently send them to the DL.

[max power]

Pierre has had two bad OBP seasons, but before this year, he had a .355 lifetime and right now, according to Baseball Prospectus it's .350 and a .303 lifetime BA.

 

He's a slap hitter that puts the ball in play. True, he doesn't walk a lot. His high was 55 in 2004, but he also doesn't strike out a lot. His high was 52 in 2002.

 

I'm not saying we should sign him, I'm just saying you can't take one year as a sample. He actually played better when Ozzie was coaching in Florida.

 

And as for injury-prone players...don't include Dye in that discussion. His injury was a fluke. You can't predict fouling a ball off your leg and breaking it. To me, injury prone players are ones that have hamstring or groin troubles constantly, or back trouble. The things that always pop up and consistently send them to the DL.

Dye has played like 5 full seasons in his 12 year career. He has back problems too.

[Kalapse]

Dye has played like 5 full seasons in his 12 year career. He has back problems too.

7 full seasons out of 10 (excluding rookie year since he was called up later). And most of his injuries have been freak accidents such as fouling a ball off his shin or getting bit by spiders in his sleep this is the first time in his career that he's had any real back problems and even now it's only the occasional tightness not a slipped disc like Crede.

[max power]

7 full seasons out of 10 (excluding rookie year since he was called up later). And most of his injuries have been freak accidents such as fouling a ball off his shin or getting bit by spiders in his sleep this is the first time in his career that he's had any real back problems and even now it's only the occasional tightness not a slipped disc like Crede.

No, it isn't serious but I think he missed like 10-15 games last year with the back problems too. I guess 15 games is normal wear and tear but I don't consider those full seasons.

[Kalapse]

No, it isn't serious but I think he missed like 10-15 games last year with the back problems too. I guess 15 games is normal wear and tear but I don't consider those full seasons.

Then you're standards are insanely high, Miguel Tejada is basically the only player that goes for a full season by those standards.

[max power]

Then you're standards are insanely high, Miguel Tejada is basically the only player that goes for a full season by those standards.

Quite possibly. Give me 140-145 games of being healthy, not necessarily playing all those games and I'll call it a full season. Paul konerko for example is a healthy guy.

 

Dye has done that 4 times. You are calling 137 and 131 games a full season of health? That's suggests being on the DL a bit to me.

Edited October 4, 2006 by max power

[CanOfCorn]

Look, I give every player at least one stint on the DL plus a day off every month. That would be about 21 days off during the year. So...162 - 21 = 141 games. And I know most position players play more than that. And, don't forget, catchers regularly catch between 130 - 140 games a year. Do you sign them for less?

 

Peoples standards are WAY too high. Yes, I would call 131 and 137 games a full season. Anything less than 120 games, which is 3/4 of a season is NOT a full season. At least by my calculations.

[witesoxfan]

Look, I give every player at least one stint on the DL plus a day off every month. That would be about 21 days off during the year. So...162 - 21 = 141 games. And I know most position players play more than that. And, don't forget, catchers regularly catch between 130 - 140 games a year. Do you sign them for less?

 

Yes

[cgaudin]

I would trade ANYONE on the Sox roster for Ichiro. I'd give every prospect up, Ichiro is a god among men. He has hit .330 and has a .376 OBP for his career. That's insane! But I don't think we'll get him. Unfortunately, Ozzie likes the Juan Pierre kool-aid ever since his stint at Florida as a coach.

[witesoxfan]

I would trade ANYONE on the Sox roster for Ichiro. I'd give every prospect up, Ichiro is a god among men. He has hit .330 and has a .376 OBP for his career. That's insane! But I don't think we'll get him. Unfortunately, Ozzie likes the Juan Pierre kool-aid ever since his stint at Florida as a coach.

 

If you are telling me Ozzie Guillen would prefer Juan Pierre over Ichiro, then you are completely out of your mind.

[beautox]

Melky Cabrera

[shawnhillegas]

Rocco Baldelli

[The Ginger Kid]

we won 90 games without a lead off hitter. Give it to Sweeney.

[Drew]

Dave Roberts has had a hell of a game today.

[GoodAsGould]

go go tony gwynn jr

[CanOfCorn]

Someone I saw a few times and really has impressed, both at AAA Round Rock and on the Astros is Luke Scott. I think this kid is going to be pretty damn good and he has a good eye...I think his OBP was around .380 in limited playing time. His natural position is LF and...

 

...aw who am I kidding, the Astros aren't goin to trade him. A boy can dream, can't he?

[GoodAsGould]

isnt Scott already like 28 years old or something like that?