Chisoxfn Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 03:14 PM) Chisoxfan I know you live near the Angels and everything but you are the only person ive ever heard call it a hitters ballpark. Everyone I have talked to about it and whenevr I hear about it on ESPN its moreso refered to as a pitchers ballpark. Now not to the degree of Seattle/Oakland both in your division but still benefits pitchers more than hitters. All I know is about a year or two ago the big stat thrown around was that there were that in terms of hr's per game and runs per game over like a 6 year category was amongst the top 5 in baseball. It was talked about a lot at the time and has quieted down a bit the past two years, but thats because there offense blows and there pitching staff is pretty good. The ball absolutely jumps out of this place though and it is NOT a pitchers park. Not even freaking close, its a hitters park (not in the sake of Coors Field or Houston) but its still a hitters park. QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 03:14 PM) I'd LOVE to have Ervin Santana on the Sox. He's still young and he's going to get better. He's not going to be as good as McCarthy but he's going to be a very solid starter, hell he's already pretty damn good. Like I said about Michael Young, Santana will be good no matter where he plays I don't know about that. He could very well be better than Brandon. I like Brandon but he's still got a long ways to go, mainly because the White Sox completely wasted the 2006 season on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 05:39 PM) I don't know about that. He could very well be better than Brandon. I like Brandon but he's still got a long ways to go, mainly because the White Sox completely wasted the 2006 season on him. I disagree, I'd take Brandon over Ervin but that's jmo. I do think pretty highly of Santana though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 05:42 PM) I disagree, I'd take Brandon over Ervin but that's jmo. I do think pretty highly of Santana though. They would make a nice young 2-3 punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuddlyboy26 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Would Crede want to be a backup to Fields though? There are many teams that would want him to be the starter. I now understand more why his agent wants him to leave. If they are so high on some younger kid he obviously is not welcome and would be stupid to want to sign a long term deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(cuddlyboy26 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 03:49 PM) Would Crede want to be a backup to Fields though? There are many teams that would want him to be the starter. I now understand more why his agent wants him to leave. If they are so high on some younger kid he obviously is not welcome and would be stupid to want to sign a long term deal. This is just wierd...there is no sense in which Joe Crede will ever be a backup. Either Joe Crede will be traded, or Josh Fields will. And the factors making that decision will be: whether or not Crede can be signed to a multi-year deal, the price on that deal, and now, his back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(cuddlyboy26 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 05:49 PM) Would Crede want to be a backup to Fields though? Uh, Joe has become one of the better 3b's in the league, he's not backing up anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friend of Nordhagen Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(klaus kinski @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 11:34 AM) The difference here, though, is that Fields appears to be ready-nothing to be gained by not playing him now and keeping someone that will not be here very long. With the age of our star players, working in young players one at a time is essential. We have one ready to play. Is Fields really ready, though? Could be, but I didn't see a guy who looked ready -- yet. The good: Seemed to handle himself pretty well at 3rd, especially for a guy who's relatively inexperienced. Has some pop. Appeared to have pretty good strike zone recognition, again especially for a pretty inexperienced player. Had a good season at AAA, much better than in lower minors, which might demonstrate an impressive learning curve. The bad: Seemed totally overmatched by fairly pedestrian fastballs, with a long swing. We've seen this movie before. So, I'm not sure what we have there. He's no doubt talented, but I question whether he's ready right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuddlyboy26 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 06:50 PM) This is just wierd...there is no sense in which Joe Crede will ever be a backup. Either Joe Crede will be traded, or Josh Fields will. And the factors making that decision will be: whether or not Crede can be signed to a multi-year deal, the price on that deal, and now, his back. Is a 4-year deal for $5-million a year a good one for Crede? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(cuddlyboy26 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 04:56 PM) Is a 4-year deal for $5-million a year a good one for Crede? HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(cuddlyboy26 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 05:56 PM) Is a 4-year deal for $5-million a year a good one for Crede? Double that money and you're a whole lot closer to a realistic number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Crede's a keeper and Kenny's a haggler. I think something will be worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuddlyboy26 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 06:50 PM) Uh, Joe has become one of the better 3b's in the league, he's not backing up anyone. Well people are talking about a long term deal for Crede. I was just thinking it would be unreasonable to think Fields would be kept on the bench for 4 years or something. QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 07:00 PM) Double that money and you're a whole lot closer to a realistic number. My point is do you think the White Sox would take that offer if Crede and his agent gave it? It is enough money for Crede to be ensured to be the starting 3rd baseman I would think, and a big raise over his current pay, almost double, and job insurance for 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(cuddlyboy26 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 06:08 PM) Well people are talking about a long term deal for Crede. I was just thinking it would be unreasonable to think Fields would be kept on the bench for 4 years or something. If Crede were signed to a long term deal, Fields would either be imediately traded or moved to another position. QUOTE(cuddlyboy26 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 06:10 PM) Well people are talking about a long term deal for Crede. I was just thinking it would be unreasonable to think Fields would be kept on the bench for 4 years or something. My point is do you think the White Sox would take that offer if Crede and his agent gave it? It is enough money for Crede to be ensured to be the starting 3rd baseman I would think, and a big raise over his current pay, almost double, and job insurance for 4 years. The Sox wouldn't even hesitate, they'd take that deal in a second but Crede and Boras would never even think about signing such a deal. Hell Crede would likely make around $6.25M in arbitration this year alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 isn't Fields going down to Venezuela to play OF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuddlyboy26 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 07:13 PM) Do yourself a favor, and go to ESPN's stat page, look up 3rd basemen, compare stats, and look how much each made in 06(its on the page) You figure out how much he should get.... I know there are much worse ones that make alot more, but they were free agents. Crede is not a free agent right now. Crede makes much less then Uribe right now and is a better player, granted it is another position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 KW was talking about tweaking. Getting rid of Crede wouldn't be tweaking. I like how Ozzie said KW gets him what he wants, and what he wants is a nasty bullpen. If that happens, only injuries will keep the White Sox out of the 2007 postseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuddlyboy26 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 07:22 PM) But were talking about giving Crede a long term deal, not just what he should make for next year. We will just go by HR's to Rank the 3b 1st-10 in the league, you could use whatever you want. A.Ramierz Troy Glaus Alex Rodrigez Garret Atkins Brandon Inge Chipper Jones Miggy Cabrera David Wright As you can see, a few are still on their rookie deals, but most of the elite 3b in the league, who put up numbers better, or similar to Joe, make 10 mil+. Ok thanks, you are right now I see he would want 10-million a year probably. I dont understand players salaries too well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 07:20 PM) KW was talking about tweaking. Getting rid of Crede wouldn't be tweaking. I like how Ozzie said KW gets him what he wants, and what he wants is a nasty bullpen. If that happens, only injuries will keep the White Sox out of the 2007 postseason. Or a bad rotation... I'm loath to spend much on the bullpen. It's just too variable. The Phils collected prized old bullpen arms for years, and look where it got them. Unless we're talking about a BJ Ryan-type arm, I'll always take depth over starpower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 05:53 PM) Is Fields really ready, though? Could be, but I didn't see a guy who looked ready -- yet. The good: Seemed to handle himself pretty well at 3rd, especially for a guy who's relatively inexperienced. Has some pop. Appeared to have pretty good strike zone recognition, again especially for a pretty inexperienced player. Had a good season at AAA, much better than in lower minors, which might demonstrate an impressive learning curve. The bad: Seemed totally overmatched by fairly pedestrian fastballs, with a long swing. We've seen this movie before. So, I'm not sure what we have there. He's no doubt talented, but I question whether he's ready right now. Spot on. Josh is a 'project' who may turn out to be very good but at this stage would be learning his trade at the MLB level. That might be acceptable for a team in rebuilding mode, trying to get to .500, but I think the White Sox have a chance to get back to the Series next year and have to put more weight on immediate results. How the White Sox handle this matter will be telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 If you are trying to win a championship, chances are you aren't going to have BA, Sweeney and Fields in the lineup, and chances are you aren't going to have 2 of those guys playing very much. For a guy who was 3-20 in his brief time in Chicago, Fields is sure being shown a lot of love. I really hope KW trades him. I think his value will never be higher than it is right now. I think he is Eric Hinske at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 05:14 PM) Chisoxfan I know you live near the Angels and everything but you are the only person ive ever heard call it a hitters ballpark. Everyone I have talked to about it and whenevr I hear about it on ESPN its moreso refered to as a pitchers ballpark. Now not to the degree of Seattle/Oakland both in your division but still benefits pitchers more than hitters. Baseball Reference calculates a Park Factor for this purpose. 100 is average. The last year available is 2005 and Anaheim came in at 96 for batters and 96 for pitchers. Compare to US Cellular at 103 - 102. Going by the numbers, the big A is definitely a pitchers park. Edited October 2, 2006 by TLAK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 06:44 PM) So because its a "toss up" Williams should stick with Haeger/Tracey/Logan/Phillips? Ozzie wants a shutdown bullpen, and he was the right idea. I trust Williams to bring in some guys to get the job done. Part of 2006's problem was that KW didn't spend any money on the bullpen, and counted on guys 10 years olds could tell you not to count on. It was obvious Politte would step back. Hermanson mentioned retirement, didn't throw at all, and was suddenly being counted on. Vizcaino was gone. Marte was gone. A lot of cheap minor league free agents were signed hoping 1 would work out. Most did the Charlotte Knights proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 06:50 PM) Part of 2006's problem was that KW didn't spend any money on the bullpen, and counted on guys 10 years olds could tell you not to count on. It was obvious Politte would step back. Hermanson mentioned retirement, didn't throw at all, and was suddenly being counted on. Vizcaino was gone. Marte was gone. A lot of cheap minor league free agents were signed hoping 1 would work out. Most did the Charlotte Knights proud. Which is why I rather have Marte than Mack. Marte at least was still a decent mopup reliever who still had potential. Vizcaino was given too much crap for just 1 bad month. I also think he shouldn't have been included in that Vazquez deal. I have no problem with Young and Duque going, but relievers are hard to find, and KW took that for granted, as well as some of the people around here. Anyone know when is the first day we could actually make moves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 07:44 PM) So because its a "toss up" Williams should stick with Haeger/Tracey/Logan/Phillips? Ozzie wants a shutdown bullpen, and he was the right idea. I trust Williams to bring in some guys to get the job done. No, I just hope he doesn't throw cash at a couple "nasty" arms and assume that the bullpen woes are solved. I like the approach of 2005 -- collect a bunch of moderately priced arms and something nasty will come out of it. Shingo's ineffective? Well, we got Hermanson. Now he's hurting? Okay, let's try Jenks. Get a 'great' arm, and who knows if you get his off year. Depth > stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 2, 2006 -> 08:10 PM) So depth means question marks? Kenny did a wonderful job in 2005, but even he will tell you they lucked out in alot of spots, bullpen included. They are now in a position where they dont need much, yet have some pieces to get some quality players. What they do need is BP help, and Williams will get a few impact arms. Proven>Unproven. Imo, almost anyone in any bullpen is a pretty big question mark. Rivera, Ryan, Wagner seem to be exceptions, but even Lidge, who I would have put in that company before 2006, had a terrible year. That means a lot of risk if you're relying heavily on one or two guys. I mean, if you have money to fill your pen with stars, go for it. I just don't know that we're in that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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