KW to be on AM 1000 at 9:40

[DBAHO]

Danks would be a guy he'd be hard to trade, unless you got a stud player like Crawford back in return. Having a potential dominating lefty like him would be huge for the future of this rotation.

 

The more I think about it, the more I like a Contreras for Danks and prospect deal.

 

And here's another question. If you added Jon Garland along with Joe Crede in the deal to the Angels, do you think they would then offer say a Brandon Wood/Kendrick/Santana deal?

 

That way, you could have a rotation that includes Buehrle, Vazquez, Santana, McCarthy and Garcia. You could then even trade Garcia to a team like San Diego for a deal around Cesar Carillo, and have a 4 way competition b/w Carillo, Danks, Broadway and Haeger for that 5th starter's job.

 

Either way, it's fun to speculate about all of these scenario's, and it shows how many damn options Kenny Williams has this off-season. He's got talent to move to find the right pieces for this ballclub.

[fathom]

Danks would be a guy he'd be hard to trade, unless you got a stud player like Crawford back in return. Having a potential dominating lefty like him would be huge for the future of this rotation.

 

The more I think about it, the more I like a Contreras for Danks and prospect deal.

 

And here's another question. If you added Jon Garland along with Joe Crede in the deal to the Angels, do you think they would then offer say a Brandon Wood/Kendrick/Santana deal?

 

I don't think the Angels would be willing to even trade Santana and Kendrick for Garland and Crede. They value their young players more than anyone, and they have enough money where they can go out and sign similar players to Garland and Crede if they have to. The package, from what I can gather, that Tampa would want for Crawford would be along the likes of McCarthy, Broadway, and another good prospect. Tampa isn't in a situation where they need to trade Crawford, so they want to get the most value that they can for him. I've seen things on this site about how Tampa would want someone like Jerry Owens in a trade. They have seemingly dozens of better outfield options than him.

[DBAHO]

I don't think the Angels would be willing to even trade Santana and Kendrick for Garland and Crede. They value their young players more than anyone, and they have enough money where they can go out and sign similar players to Garland and Crede if they have to. The package, from what I can gather, that Tampa would want for Crawford would be along the likes of McCarthy, Broadway, and another good prospect. Tampa isn't in a situation where they need to trade Crawford, so they want to get the most value that they can for him. I've seen things on this site about how Tampa would want someone like Jerry Owens in a trade. They have seemingly dozens of better outfield options than him.

That's been Stoneman's motto in the past to hang onto the young players. But the Angels missed out on the playoffs this season and Arte Moreno has let it be known that they want to get a stud player in the off-season.

 

So like I said earlier, if the Angels can't sign a good run producer in FA (and I don't think it's a very big class this off-season IIRC), they'll have to fill that need in the trade market.

 

I wouldn't believe though that the Angels wouldn't offer Santana and Kendrick for Garland and Crede when they offered a deal of Santana, Aybar and Kotchman or Adenhart for Miggy Tejada about 2 months back.

 

As for your Crawford suggestion, that's why it's improtant that we trade a veteran starter for a stud pitching spect, so we can include that in the Crawford deal. I'd have no problems with a Danks and Broadway for Crawford deal for example. And if people here think that Tampa would be interested in Owens considering the depth of OF's they have, well I have absolutely no idea where they are coming from.

[fathom]

That's been Stoneman's motto in the past to hang onto the young players. But the Angels missed out on the playoffs this season and Arte Moreno has let it be known that they want to get a stud player in the off-season.

 

So like I said earlier, if the Angels can't sign a good run producer in FA (and I don't think it's a very big class this off-season IIRC), they'll have to fill that need in the trade market.

 

I wouldn't believe though that the Angels wouldn't offer Santana and Kendrick for Garland and Crede when they offered a deal of Santana, Aybar and Kotchman or Adenhart for Miggy Tejada about 2 months back.

 

The thing is, there's no doubt in my mind that if we traded Crede, it would be for a package centered around Chone Figgins (yuck). I can't see the Angels trading Kendrick though, as they're letting Kennedy go via free agency in order to open up 2nd base for him for the next 10 years.

[GreatScott82]

Well, supposedly, Fields is going to be playing outfield in winter ball this year.

good point. why would they have him play outfield ball this winter if he is planning on replacing Crede? Wouldn't they just have him play 3B? Something is not right with this rumor.

[RockRaines]

And David Wright doesn't have his winning smile.

 

Crede's my favorite Sox player, and he's a very good player, but let's not get carried away. Unless Chavez's forearm problem lingers for years, his bat is better than Crede's. Even if some of the power just leaks away (which I don't see), he's a big on-base guy. And ARod is one of the best players of this era. Crede is not that calibre player, nor very close. Rodriguez, Chavez, Atkins, Wright, Zimmerman, Teahen, Cabrera, Ramirez, Rolen (when healthy), and Chipper (ditto) are all at least as valuable as Crede. I don't want to see him traded, I hope a deal can be worked out, but if it doesn't happen and we get a good package of young players in return (hopefully, and, I think, realistically, 2) -- we can still produce a WS-capable team.

You underrate Crede a ton for being your favorite player. His bat this year is better than most of the guys you mentioned, and his glove is top 3 in the league hands down. He is one of the top 3B in the entire MLB.

[jackie hayes]

You underrate Crede a ton for being your favorite player. His bat this year is better than most of the guys you mentioned, and his glove is top 3 in the league hands down. He is one of the top 3B in the entire MLB.

He's my favorite because he can make those plays. It was sad watching after Robin left.

 

But I don't see that Joe had a better year hitting than half of those players. If anything, I'd add Glaus and Sanchez as having better years with the bat. He was better than Chavez, probably contributed more than Teahen and Chipper, but that's about it.

[Chisoxfn]

That's been Stoneman's motto in the past to hang onto the young players. But the Angels missed out on the playoffs this season and Arte Moreno has let it be known that they want to get a stud player in the off-season.

 

So like I said earlier, if the Angels can't sign a good run producer in FA (and I don't think it's a very big class this off-season IIRC), they'll have to fill that need in the trade market.

 

I wouldn't believe though that the Angels wouldn't offer Santana and Kendrick for Garland and Crede when they offered a deal of Santana, Aybar and Kotchman or Adenhart for Miggy Tejada about 2 months back.

 

As for your Crawford suggestion, that's why it's improtant that we trade a veteran starter for a stud pitching spect, so we can include that in the Crawford deal. I'd have no problems with a Danks and Broadway for Crawford deal for example. And if people here think that Tampa would be interested in Owens considering the depth of OF's they have, well I have absolutely no idea where they are coming from.

Why in god sakes would we make that trade. Garland is hands down better than Santana and while I love the offensive potential of Kendrick, right now he doens't even come close to holding Crede's jock strap. That would be bloody awful.

[Chisoxfn]

Figgins is a slight upgrade over Pods IMO. I liked Figgins alot, but he was Pods-esc this season. If we really want, we can bring Pods back. Why would we trade Crede for something we already have. Give KW a little more credit than that....

You give Figgins one position to play and watch him explode.

[CWSGuy406]

Figgins is a slight upgrade over Pods IMO. I liked Figgins alot, but he was Pods-esc this season. If we really want, we can bring Pods back. Why would we trade Crede for something we already have. Give KW a little more credit than that....

 

Ditto. Come on, Fathom... do you really disrespect and think that lowly of Kenny?

[Chisoxfn]

Ditto. Come on, Fathom... do you really disrespect and think that lowly of Kenny?

Even with identical numbers (avg/obp) Figgins is light years better than Pods. A, because if you put him in left everyday he'd be one of the better left fielders in baseball (with a very strong arm for a LF) and B, because he truly reaks total chaos on the bases and thats something Ozzie wants and needs.

 

Carl Crawford would be great, but I don't see us having what it takes to get him without creating some serious holes on our lineup, but we could potentially get Figgins.

 

You see him alot more than most of us, so I will trust you. Looking the numbers, his 06 was very discouraging. I just think Crede is more valuable than Figgins at this point. You get a good prospect out of the deal as well, then my interest will start to rise.

I am not saying we deal Crede for Figgins. I think it would be stupid to deal Crede unless we are getting a super star type prospect in return or a very high level player in return (pitcher or CF).

[The Ginger Kid]

You give Figgins one position to play and watch him explode.

that's an interesting point. He does get moved all over the place. He's not bad at 3b but covers a ton of ground in the OF. And he can bunt!!

[NorthSideSox72]

Even with identical numbers (avg/obp) Figgins is light years better than Pods. A, because if you put him in left everyday he'd be one of the better left fielders in baseball (with a very strong arm for a LF) and B, because he truly reaks total chaos on the bases and thats something Ozzie wants and needs.

 

Carl Crawford would be great, but I don't see us having what it takes to get him without creating some serious holes on our lineup, but we could potentially get Figgins.

I am not saying we deal Crede for Figgins. I think it would be stupid to deal Crede unless we are getting a super star type prospect in return or a very high level player in return (pitcher or CF).

So, just curious... what do you think it would take from the Sox to get Figgins?

[Balta1701]

So, just curious... what do you think it would take from the Sox to get Figgins?

Straight up? I'm not sure the Sox have anything that would make that deal work. The Halos have a ton of young talent already, so they're probably not going to be in the market to trade Figgins to get younger. But at the same time, the guys the White Sox have who the Halos might want on their big league team are way too valuable to be traded for Figgins straight up. They need a bat desperately, so the likely options would be Crede, Thome, Dye...all of whom are worth significantly more than Chone Figgins.

 

The only guys who I think we could do straight up for Figgings talent-wise would be Iguchi or Uribe, and I don't see that happening, because Anaheim's infield is freaking loaded. They might take Anderson for him, but having seen BA for a season, I wouldn't make that deal.

 

The only way that a Figgins deal works is if Figgins is a throw-in alongside some of their big talent youth.

Edited October 4, 2006 by Balta1701

[GoodAsGould]

I forgot about Figgins when i was rambling early... ok now i got a whole new picture of what my perfect off-season will be. Im saving it too so i can tell myself how smart I am. For example last off-season I really wanted us to go after Adrian Gonzalez .

 

Anyways trade Crede and maybe a mid-tier prospect for Ervin Santana and Chone Figgins.

Trade Garcia to the Padres for Cesar Carillo and maybe Linebrek? if not him another prospect.

Trade Contreras to the Rangers for Jon Danks and a mid tier prospect

Trade Buehrle and Uribe to the Phillies for Jimmy Rollins and Ryan Madson or somethign like him

 

LF:Chone Figgins

SS:Jimmy Rollins

RF:Jermaine Dye

DH:Jim Thome

1B:Paul Konerko

C:AJ Pieryznski

2B: Tad Iguchi

3B: Josh Fields

CF:Brian Anderson

 

Starting Rotation

1. Jon Garland

2. Javier Vazquez

3. Ervin Santana

4. Brandon McCarthy

5. Cesar Carillo/Jon Danks

 

Bullpen: Scott Linebrek, Ryan Madson, Bobby Jenks, Mike Macdougal, Matt Thornton, David Riske

 

Carillo and Danks would duke it out in spring training for that last pitching spot. Vazquez showed me as the season went on he has improved greatly and Im expecting big things from him. Jon Garland might seem like a weak ace but really our number 1 guy has been Buerhle, who was more of a 7 IP 3 ER guy than your protypical ace(Halladay etc.) Based on what ive seen from them in the bigs I think Santana and McCarthy can both give quality starts on a regular basis and that lineup is still very potent and is completely reloaded on the top. Madson would become the new B-Mac of the bullpen and Linebrek would be another really good arm to rely on.

 

Also the season after we would be able to trade either Garland or Vazquez to make room for Danks/Carillo and we would have a lot of flexibility incase we wanted to be big players in f/a.

 

 

 

Thats my perfect off-season

Edited October 4, 2006 by SoxFan101

[fathom]

Ditto. Come on, Fathom... do you really disrespect and think that lowly of Kenny?

 

I think the world of KW....he was light-years more influential in helping us win the 2005 WS than Ozzie could have ever dreamed of. However, I just have a feeling that Ozzie is going to be begging KW to acquire his "Ozzieball" players this offseason.

 

Also, a quick question I have: why do people want us to trade for Carillo so bad? If we thought he was good, we would have drafted him 2 years ago. Now, you add on the injury he's had, and I don't think we'd trade one of our starting pitchers for him. Also, Scott Linebrink was BRUTAL during the 2nd half of this season.

[NorthSideSox72]

I see Figgins has played a few games at SS. Does anyone think he could succeed there defensively? Since we have a fair amount of OF talent in the system already, and it seems like finding a shortstop on the market would be tough, that would be pretty handy. Figgins at short and all sorts of options for LF.

[Frank the Tank 35]

I see Figgins has played a few games at SS. Does anyone think he could succeed there defensively? Since we have a fair amount of OF talent in the system already, and it seems like finding a shortstop on the market would be tough, that would be pretty handy. Figgins at short and all sorts of options for LF.

 

Your idea intrigues me. I'd like to subscribe to your weekly newsletter. We know he's fast, and he's got a great arm. Seemingly all he would need to play SS is the instinct...

 

 

A little irrelevant but I read an article about him in Muscle and Fitness. That little man squats like a champ!

Edited October 4, 2006 by Frank the Tank 35

[NorthSideSox72]

I'd like to subscribe to your weekly newsletter.

Its called Filibuster.

 

[SoxHawk1980]

We don't need speed at the top of the lineup, we need OBP. For the love of god, we need guys who can get on base. With guys like Thome, Konerko, Dye and Crede in the middle of the lineup, it would be stupid to play small-ball. We need guys who will get on base so that those big bats can drive them in.

 

In 2006, the offense was better than 2005. Pitching completely carried us in 2005. We can't count on that happening again. We need an offense that will maximize Runs Scored. More speed and small ball isn't going to score more runs.

[RockRaines]

Starting Rotation

1. Jon Garland

2. Javier Vazquez

3. Ervin Santana

4. Brandon McCarthy

5. Cesar Carillo/Jon Danks

I respect your opinion and all. But IMO, that rotation is good for another 3rd place finish in the AL Central. We need to improve our lineup, not inject several unproven younger players hoping that they can carry us.

[NorthSideSox72]

We don't need speed at the top of the lineup, we need OBP. For the love of god, we need guys who can get on base. With guys like Thome, Konerko, Dye and Crede in the middle of the lineup, it would be stupid to play small-ball. We need guys who will get on base so that those big bats can drive them in.

 

In 2006, the offense was better than 2005. Pitching completely carried us in 2005. We can't count on that happening again. We need an offense that will maximize Runs Scored. More speed and small ball isn't going to score more runs.

Figgins' OBP in the last 3 years: .350, .352, .336

 

Pods' OBP in the last 3 years: .313, .351, .330

Uribe's OBP in the last 3 years: .327, .301, .257

 

Figgins would be an upgrade in OBP over either one. Maybe only 10-30 points over Pods, but still a difference. And better D. As for Uribe, if Figgins plays SS, well... his OBP gain would be huge, and that would allow us to put someone else in left with better overall numbers for elsewhere in the lineup.

 

Plus, Figgins ALSO has speed, which is a nice bonus in a leadoff hitter.

[Chisoxfn]

Straight up? I'm not sure the Sox have anything that would make that deal work. The Halos have a ton of young talent already, so they're probably not going to be in the market to trade Figgins to get younger. But at the same time, the guys the White Sox have who the Halos might want on their big league team are way too valuable to be traded for Figgins straight up. They need a bat desperately, so the likely options would be Crede, Thome, Dye...all of whom are worth significantly more than Chone Figgins.

 

The only guys who I think we could do straight up for Figgings talent-wise would be Iguchi or Uribe, and I don't see that happening, because Anaheim's infield is freaking loaded. They might take Anderson for him, but having seen BA for a season, I wouldn't make that deal.

 

The only way that a Figgins deal works is if Figgins is a throw-in alongside some of their big talent youth.

I could see the Angels having interest in Josh Fields and Brian Anderson (both going to Anaheim) for Figgins. Well it could be Anderson or Sweeney (either would garnish interest from the Halos).

[CWSGuy406]

Figgins would be an upgrade in OBP over either one. Maybe only 10-30 points over Pods, but still a difference. And better D. As for Uribe, if Figgins plays SS, well... his OBP gain would be huge, and that would allow us to put someone else in left with better overall numbers for elsewhere in the lineup.

 

Figgins over Uribe? The decline in defense would be enormous, and although there'd be an upgrade in OBP, we're also losing ten homers and ten points.

 

It's a lateral move, at best, and more likely, a big mistake.

[SoxAce]

Figgins over Uribe? The decline in defense would be enormous

 

I think everyone can agree on this. Uribe is at the top of the league with his D. Not too many players in baseball can help us improve more in that area.

 

and although there'd be an upgrade in OBP, we're also losing ten homers and ten points.

 

See this statement right here is BS. Losing ten homers and ten points? By that statment, were losing 10 solo shots. I can live with that. Even if Chone hits like 5-10 homers (which I would prefer 100% more contact than the long ball) we will still have another 200 HR season. We got, IMO, too many guys on this team hitting 20+ homers which basically, are hitting them as solo shots. Our RISP which is HUGE, is drastically going down. The only guys I want to see hitting those dingers (aka 20-30+) even if their solo shots which means, hopefully, those runs are drivin in already, or if they are leading off are Dye-Thome-Konerko and possibly/probably Crede. The rest I want to see them get on base and put the pressure on. Let's say if Chone is here, I'd rather see him with that high OBP, stealing bases (w/o being caught too much) Iguchi moving him along or in and even Gooch getting 15-20 SB then seeing the big bats do the rest. A .300 Figgins, .300 10+ A.J (who can actually line drive the ball to get them in instead of free swining) and a .280 10+ 15SB Gooch, we will will thrive. Don't forget about BA's power. i expect him to be in that 10-15+ homer category to replace those "ten points."

 

But I'd prefer him in LF with that good arm of his. Our D will shoot up with Chone>>Pods in D.

Edited October 4, 2006 by SoxAce