A-Rod, what's the asking price

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd add Arod using a pitcher and Josh Fields, but than I'd also go ahead and swing a deal that moved Thome or Konerko out of Chicago because financially we'd need to clear some stuff up, imo.

That makes getting A-rod even more pointless.

 

I can't believe some people here would overrate Crede so much, they would move Konerko or Thome to keep him on the roster.

 

In case anyone is wondering, yes I think Crede is overrated here.

 

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no problem trading Thome and making PK the every day DH and using Gload as the every day first baseman.

It's not going to happen.

 

Ever.

 

Period.

 

Is it even worth discussing?

Ross Gload is not an everyday player.

 

 

Thome waived his NTC to come here, so why would he waive it again to leave after being the second best hitter on the team?

 

KW said there would be some "minor tweaking." This isn't fantasy baseball.

Edited October 9, 2006 by santo=dorf

[The Critic]

You mean 14 roster moves is more than "tweaking"????

[redandwhite]

Joe Crede is extremely overrated on these boards, good point s=d.

[Chisoxfn]

Joe Crede is extremely overrated on these boards, good point s=d.

Yet, if I'm trading for Arod, I'm doing so with the intent of moving him back to SS and sending Juan Uribe elsewhere.

 

If we get Arod, than we are going to need to cut payroll somewhere and moving someone like Thome makes more sense than someone like Crede. Plus I think now is the perfect time to move Thome because I see him getting progressively worse during the remaining years of the contract. His trade value is far higher this year than it was last year (when we acquired him) and I think this off-season would be the perfect time to take complete advantage of that.

 

Oh and Gload could play 130 games a season on a winning team, especially one like the Sox (with good bats most of the way around the lineup).

[redandwhite]

I agree it might be wise to trade Thome or Konerko for that matter considering the amount of money they are making and the years left on their respective deals, but like dorf, I just think its extremely unlikely that Thome or Konerko are in another uniform in 2009 or 2010 no less 2007.

[Chisoxfn]

I agree it might be wise to trade Thome or Konerko for that matter considering the amount of money they are making and the years left on their respective deals, but like dorf, I just think its extremely unlikely that Thome or Konerko are in another uniform in 2009 or 2010 no less 2007.

I don't disagree (well in regards to Konerko LT) but I could see Thome moved. I just don't think it will be this off-season. Thome may be out of baseball in 09 and probably will be in 2010.

[Balta1701]

Yet, if I'm trading for Arod, I'm doing so with the intent of moving him back to SS and sending Juan Uribe elsewhere.

 

If we get Arod, than we are going to need to cut payroll somewhere and moving someone like Thome makes more sense than someone like Crede. Plus I think now is the perfect time to move Thome because I see him getting progressively worse during the remaining years of the contract. His trade value is far higher this year than it was last year (when we acquired him) and I think this off-season would be the perfect time to take complete advantage of that.

 

Oh and Gload could play 130 games a season on a winning team, especially one like the Sox (with good bats most of the way around the lineup).

The one way I would think your suggestion would make sense is if we could also get a quality left handed hitting leadoff hitter for left field from somewhere. Because with Gload instead of Thome, we lose the ability to have a lefty bat that the other team has to plan around. You don't bring in a Loogy to face Ross Gload unless the situation demands it...you bring one in to face Thome any time the game is close. That would be somewhat of a weakness in our lineup if we followed that suggestion.

 

Then again...toss Thome to anaheim for Santana, toss Santana to Tampa for Crawford, and bang.

[Dick Allen]

Joe Crede is extremely overrated on these boards, good point s=d.

Crede is one of the best 3rd basemen in all of baseball. I used to think he was worthless, but he changed my mind. As long as his back isn't a hinderence, trading him is counterproductive. If anyone is overrated on this board, it is one Josh Fields. He had a breakout year in which he hit 19 homers in Charlotte. Now everyone thinks he'll hit over 20 in the big leagues. He's a strikeout machine. I will admit, he will take a walk which I like, but I just don't think of this guy as all that great of a prospect. Trade him while someone still does KW>

[redandwhite]

I was under the impression that his deal lasted until through 2010. I was wrong. Nonetheless, you think he'd pass up $13 million in '09 and retire?

[Balta1701]

I agree it might be wise to trade Thome or Konerko for that matter considering the amount of money they are making and the years left on their respective deals, but like dorf, I just think its extremely unlikely that Thome or Konerko are in another uniform in 2009 or 2010 no less 2007.

Jim Thome is under contract through 2008, with the White Sox holding a $14 million option in 2009.

 

Crede is one of the best 3rd basemen in all of baseball. I used to think he was worthless, but he changed my mind. As long as his back isn't a hinderence, trading him is counterproductive. If anyone is overrated on this board, it is one Josh Fields. He had a breakout year in which he hit 19 homers in Charlotte. Now everyone thinks he'll hit over 20 in the big leagues. He's a strikeout machine. I will admit, he will take a walk which I like, but I just don't think of this guy as all that great of a prospect. Trade him while someone still does KW>

I fully agree with this with one exception...what happens if we can't sign Crede?

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 05:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't disagree (well in regards to Konerko LT) but I could see Thome moved. I just don't think it will be this off-season. Thome may be out of baseball in 09 and probably will be in 2010.

If Thome isn't going to be on the Sox, it's going to be because they didn't pick up his option.

 

I also like how you think moving Thome would be a cost savings move (saving us a whopping $8 million a year to remove a 1.000 OPS from the Left handed side,) yet people here are willing to give Crede 5 years, $50 million.

 

Now you're talking about moving Uribe along with Thome/Konerko so get A-Rod here?

 

Nobody is going to absorb all of Uribe's contract, and no team is going to help the White Sox accomodate A-Rod at short by giving much of value for Uribe.

 

Is the Xbox forum open yet?

[Dick Allen]

It really amazes me how little respect Jim Thome gets from this board. His numbers this past season are very similar to the numbers Frank Thomas put up in 1993 when he won the MVP.

[jackie hayes]

Crede is one of the best 3rd basemen in all of baseball. I used to think he was worthless, but he changed my mind. As long as his back isn't a hinderence, trading him is counterproductive. If anyone is overrated on this board, it is one Josh Fields. He had a breakout year in which he hit 19 homers in Charlotte. Now everyone thinks he'll hit over 20 in the big leagues. He's a strikeout machine. I will admit, he will take a walk which I like, but I just don't think of this guy as all that great of a prospect. Trade him while someone still does KW>

One of the best = what? Top 3? Top 5? Top 10?

[Dick Allen]

Jim Thome is under contract through 2008, with the White Sox holding a $14 million option in 2009.

I fully agree with this with one exception...what happens if we can't sign Crede?

You still have him 2 more seasons. A lot happens in 2 years.

[Chisoxfn]

The one way I would think your suggestion would make sense is if we could also get a quality left handed hitting leadoff hitter for left field from somewhere. Because with Gload instead of Thome, we lose the ability to have a lefty bat that the other team has to plan around. You don't bring in a Loogy to face Ross Gload unless the situation demands it...you bring one in to face Thome any time the game is close. That would be somewhat of a weakness in our lineup if we followed that suggestion.

 

Then again...toss Thome to anaheim for Santana, toss Santana to Tampa for Crawford, and bang.

Anaheim is the one team that I think would give up an arm and a leg for Thome. Its a very good fit and they have prospects and pitching that could help us. In fact, we could likely swing a deal that nets the Sox Figgins/Santana and a prospect. I think thats a deal you strongly consider if you did acquire an Alex Rodriguez because you are getting low salary players in return that can help you (Santana/Figgs/Prospect) while getting Arod in here and still as a net result are shedding payroll (since a guy like Garcia is being moved for Arod along with fields).

 

Of course these are quite a few moves to make, but thats never scared Kenny off before. It could also give the Sox enough chips to swing a deal for Brian Roberts who would move into a place like LF. Of course that wouldn't be a protypical OF, but we would have power at 1st (PK), SS (AROD), RF (Dye), 3B (Crede), 2B (Iguchi).

 

And you now just need to find a DH with Gload maybe getting some time there or using a few chips to find a all bat type guy that just goes into that spot. I do agree the one concern is that lack of a lefty in the middle of the lineup, but throw AJ in at 6 or so and have a lefty in the 1/2 spots and you should be able to survive if need be.

 

I just say Thome because he's older and less likely to hold up over the next 2 years as opposed to Paulie.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It really amazes me how little respect Jim Thome gets from this board. His numbers this past season are very similar to the numbers Frank Thomas put up in 1993 when he won the MVP.

Yeah but how did he do in the second half, against LHP with Scott Podsednik on second? Oh, he had a .900 OPS??? Well sometimes the stats don't tell the whole story and his production just wasn't there in second half.

[Dick Allen]

One of the best = what? Top 3? Top 5? Top 10?

I'd say he's top 5. Wright, Cabrerra, ARod, those are 3 I definitely would pick over Crede. Rolen, is great, but he has physical issues as well so I'd say those 2 are about a push right now. Chavez is a great player, but he had a bad year, so they are about even in my book. Anyone else IMO Crede is better than if you take everything into consideration.

[CWSGuy406]

And with Fields...he's already spent 1 year at AAA. Yes he has stuff to learn, but he isn't going to learn much more in the minors beyond what he could in a year at AAA followed by a year of winterball. He's followed the correct formula, and that should put him in the big leagues next year with someone. The real key point is this; if the White Sox hold on to both Fields and Crede, we're holding onto Fields to let him develop more while at the same time subtracting from the big league club - since trading Fields could net us a different valuable piece for next season from some team that has room to play him.

 

Sure he can. He hasn't mastered AAA yet. He obviously has holes in his swing, as he K'd more times than Brian Anderson did in 2005 at Charlotte. If Fields is up next year, with ANY team, he's going to struggle BIG TIME. He might run into a few more balls than BA did this year and end up with better power numbers, but I doubt the BA or OBP would be much better at all.

 

The difference is that Fields doesn't have great defense to fall back on. IMO, Fields is at least another year away from positively contributing to a major league club.

 

That's why I'd really love to see Fields moved this offseason.

[Kalapse]

Where's the vomit smiley???

Eric Byrnes' words, not mine.

[sircaffey]

I'd say he's top 5. Wright, Cabrerra, ARod, those are 3 I definitely would pick over Crede. Rolen, is great, but he has physical issues as well so I'd say those 2 are about a push right now. Chavez is a great player, but he had a bad year, so they are about even in my book. Anyone else IMO Crede is better than if you take everything into consideration.

 

Add Zimmerman to the list. Garrett Atkins as well. Cabrera, Arod, Wright, Zimmerman, and Atkins then Rolen/Crede.

Edited October 9, 2006 by sircaffey

[witesoxfan]

Add Zimmerman to the list. Garrett Atkins as well. Cabrera, Arod, Wright, Zimmerman, and Atkins then Rolen/Crede.

 

Zimmerman and Atkins due to what? Zimmerman was a rookie who had a worse statistical season Crede did, while Atkins hit the hell out of the ball....in Coors. Everyone hits the ball in Coors. I will also buy very few arguments based upon defense against Crede. I haven't seen Zimmerman play much, but I've heard that he is very good defensively at 3B. I haven't heard anything at all about Atkins.

 

IMO, Crede is top 4 among 3Bman in the majors. The 3 DA mentioned, and then Crede, and I can't say Rolen is better due to his injury troubles over the past couple years, though he probably is. Chavez was quite bad this year, but I expect a pretty big bounce year from him next year. That's next year, and not now.

[aboz56]

I still think Aramis is right up there with Crede, at least offensively.

[santo=dorf]

I'd take Zimmerman over Crede and you might want to look at the numbers a little more closely. His OBP was 28 points higher, but his SLG was 35 points lower. I'd take the OBP advantage between two guys with simliar OPS's

 

Atkins on the road: .313/.402/.531

 

Sure as hell looks like he can hit away from Coors too. Don't know how he is defensively though.

 

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still think Aramis is right up there with Crede, at least offensively.

Aramis > Crede Offensively, Ramirez is an average defender. He's also a dog and will make much more money than Crede after this season. I wouldn't take him over Joe.

Edited October 10, 2006 by santo=dorf

[fathom]

This thread has the potential to be the longest thread in soxtalk history? So far, what's been the thread with the most pages?

[Balta1701]

If Thome isn't going to be on the Sox, it's going to be because they didn't pick up his option.

 

I also like how you think moving Thome would be a cost savings move (saving us a whopping $8 million a year to remove a 1.000 OPS from the Left handed side,) yet people here are willing to give Crede 5 years, $50 million.

You're making an assumption: the White Sox will send along all the money they got with Thome in any deal involving him. I see no reason why that is required to be true...the Phillies sent along that money to reduce our risk when Thome was coming off a bad injury. Now he's coming off another 40 home run, 100 RBI season.