A-Rod, what's the asking price

[Frankensteiner]

If you've got Fields>Arod>Iguchi>Konerko around the horn, you might have a below average defensive player at every infield position, including catcher. There's no denying that A-Rod has been bad at 3B the last 2 seasons, maybe even the worst 3B in the league this year. I don't think it's a stretch to say that he's lost a step defensively, and that he won't be the fielder that he once was in Seattle and Texas.

 

That defensive infield is still better than the Arod-Jeter-Cano-Giambi combo that the Yankees were running out there, and what do you know, they ended up winnnig more games than the Sox despite not having the "great" left side of the infield in Crede and Uribe.

[GoodAsGould]

Its alot easier to make up for defensive errors when you have a lineup that has 33 million locked into the 1-2 hitters.....

 

with A-Rod on our team.. with Thome, Dye, and Konerko and the fact that Matsui and Sheffield were injured the whole year was their lineup better than ours would be with Rodriguez?

[SoxHawk1980]

Reality check. The Yankees wouldn't even consider Crede+McCarthy for ARod. Do you think the Yankees want to trade production for potential? Because the value of Crede and McCarthy is basically all potential. Crede has had one good season. And it was just good, certainly not great (.323 OBP and .506 SLG isn't great). McCarthy has had a handful of good starts in the majors and a bad 2005 season.

 

Crede + McCarthy < ARod

Crede + Garcia + Broadway < ARod

 

That's the reality folks, and Cashman knows it.

[The Ginger Kid]

Reality check. The Yankees wouldn't even consider Crede+McCarthy for ARod. Do you think the Yankees want to trade production for potential? Because the value of Crede and McCarthy is basically all potential. Crede has had one good season. And it was just good, certainly not great (.323 OBP and .506 SLG isn't great). McCarthy has had a handful of good starts in the majors and a bad 2005 season.

 

Crede + McCarthy

Crede + Garcia + Broadway

 

That's the reality folks, and Cashman knows it.

but Cashman's an idiot, so we have that going for us. (evidence: the biggest problem with his club is lack of pitching yet he continually pursues all-star sluggers then can't make it out of the first round when good pitching defeats good hitting)

[witesoxfan]

Reality check. The Yankees wouldn't even consider Crede+McCarthy for ARod. Do you think the Yankees want to trade production for potential? Because the value of Crede and McCarthy is basically all potential. Crede has had one good season. And it was just good, certainly not great (.323 OBP and .506 SLG isn't great). McCarthy has had a handful of good starts in the majors and a bad 2005 season.

 

Crede + McCarthy

Crede + Garcia + Broadway

 

That's the reality folks, and Cashman knows it.

 

So you are going to try and convince me that a gold glove caliber defensive player who is coming off 2 years where he was very solid(with the exception of May and August in 2005) and just also happens to be a World Series hero, along with a solid starting pitcher and a solid pitching prospect is worth less than a player who has been destroyed by the media in New York, has been horrible in clutch situations, and has been bad defensively at 3B?

 

I'm not gonna buy that, and neither would Cashman. He would take Crede, Garcia, and Broadway in a second and run back to New York laughing his ass off.

[Chisoxfn]

but Cashman's an idiot, so we have that going for us. (evidence: the biggest problem with his club is lack of pitching yet he continually pursues all-star sluggers then can't make it out of the first round when good pitching defeats good hitting)

I think we'd be idiots if we made that deal to be honest. I love AROD, but making that deal makes absolutely no sense unless we plan on moving someone like Paulie or Thome or another superstar or two for some front line pitching or some serious pitching prospects (which we could keep one or two of and move the others for whatever our needs are).

 

Also, the talk on the local radio is that if the Angels were going to pick up Arod (or any team for that matter) that the only way the Yankees would get anything in return would be if they were paying a good portion of Arod's salary. Otherwise it appears (according to Socal Reports) that no team would trade for Arod.

 

That basically means the Yanks either pay another few million per season to get a good looking young player in return or they could take on a salary guy that may have value to the Yanks (maybe a Freddy Garcia) and get another good young prospect to boot (someone like Josh Fields). In the Angels case, it appears they won't give up Adenhart unless they are getting some serious cash back.

[VAfan]

Here's my thoughts. Any deal involving 2006 Crede and a starter probably makes us weaker. The question is, will 2005 Crede be Crede the rest of his career, or was this a career season. I think Crede is between what he did in 2006 and what he did in 2005. No way he will be 2006 good the rest of his career, but he will be a plus player and great defender. Is is worth giving up him and a starter to get one of the best players ever, and get him motivated since he wants a ring and would be out of New York? I say yes, but I see both sides of the debate.

 

I disagree about whether Crede will continue to improve offensively. He's only 28. I don't know where the up curve ends -- it varies by player -- but I think it is likely to continue at least until he is 30 or 31.

 

He also has an "easy" area of improvement -- drawing walks. He's 9th among ML 3Bs in OPS, 8th in slugging, but horrible in OBP because he's last in walks drawn at 28. If he went to a team like the Yankees that stress plate patience, I would expect this number could quickly double or triple. If it did, Crede could be a top-5 offensive performer at 3B. He also has absolutely no protection in the Sox lineup, which is why I advocated flipping Crede and AJ in the order.

 

I agree, however, with the idea that trading Crede and a starter for A-Rod probably makes us weaker overall. It certainly weakens our defense.

 

We've seen what works best in the AL Central -- pitching and defense. When we had it, we won it all. Every other year since we won the division in 2000 has been led by a team with the best pitching and defense. That's where KW should focus his attention, not on chasing A-Rod.

[santo=dorf]

Learning how to draw walks at the major league level is anything but "Easy."

 

Statheads love to point to ISoD at both the major league and minor league level to show how a player will always have the same amount of plate discipline.

 

If Crede went to the Yanks to draw walks, he'd probably hit .240 or so and be run out of town.

[jackie hayes]

Financially it doesn't add a whole lot and we now have Uribe and Pods to deal (which once they are moved for some cheap pieces, we are talking about a financial wash).

 

Or maybe, in Pods' case, to nontender. He's going to make $3 mil or so -- who's going to give us anything for that?

 

So you are going to try and convince me that a gold glove caliber defensive player who is coming off 2 years where he was very solid(with the exception of May and August in 2005) and just also happens to be a World Series hero, along with a solid starting pitcher and a solid pitching prospect is worth less than a player who has been destroyed by the media in New York, has been horrible in clutch situations, and has been bad defensively at 3B?

 

I'm not gonna buy that, and neither would Cashman. He would take Crede, Garcia, and Broadway in a second and run back to New York laughing his ass off.

 

This is sort of a wording game, here. One could easily flip it and say, "So you are going to try and convince me that a 3b with zero plate patience coming off his first decent year with the bat, unsigned and with a back condition that his team has publicly worried about, and a pitcher whose fastball just disappeared, plus some unproven, are worth more than one of the game's greatest hitters, a two-time MVP who in his worst year still demolished the production of the guy who may or may not finish next season on the field?" The truth is somewhere in between, I'm just saying, for all the struggles of this year, he's still frickin ARod.

 

The big issue is the payroll pinch, but remember that if we want to keep Crede long-term, we're looking at an outlay of $10-12 mil per. With Boras as his rep, who's gonna bet the bottom of that range? If he walks, we get squat. We're talking about adding an all-time great for 4 (? -- I think) years at $4 mil over that (maybe the Yankees throw in $1 mil per for a good package, but no more). I just can't help but get excited over the thought of that.

[SABR Sox]

I'm not gonna buy that, and neither would Cashman. He would take Crede, Garcia, and Broadway in a second and run back to New York laughing his ass off.

 

My ass he would.

 

You don't trade the best player in baseball for a 3B who's only had one good season, and it was good at best, a #3 starter, and a guy who's only had sip of coffee in AAA.

 

Your right he would be laughing his ass off. Of how pathetic of an attempt it was to acquire Rodriguez.

[whitesoxfan101]

I disagree about whether Crede will continue to improve offensively. He's only 28. I don't know where the up curve ends -- it varies by player -- but I think it is likely to continue at least until he is 30 or 31.

 

He also has an "easy" area of improvement -- drawing walks. He's 9th among ML 3Bs in OPS, 8th in slugging, but horrible in OBP because he's last in walks drawn at 28. If he went to a team like the Yankees that stress plate patience, I would expect this number could quickly double or triple. If it did, Crede could be a top-5 offensive performer at 3B. He also has absolutely no protection in the Sox lineup, which is why I advocated flipping Crede and AJ in the order.

 

I agree, however, with the idea that trading Crede and a starter for A-Rod probably makes us weaker overall. It certainly weakens our defense.

 

We've seen what works best in the AL Central -- pitching and defense. When we had it, we won it all. Every other year since we won the division in 2000 has been led by a team with the best pitching and defense. That's where KW should focus his attention, not on chasing A-Rod.

 

All good points, except it being easy to draw walks. That's one of the harder things to do, since if you try to draw walks, you might lose your natural approach and hit a lot worse. I have little hope that Joe will ever be any good at getting on base, but that's not really a reason why I think we should trade him.

[shipps]

Yes Arod is a great player but iam so tired of everyone just handing him "the best player in mlb".He has put up great numbers throughout his career but I dont think he is the best player in the majors.When we play the Yankees do you really fear Arod in that lineup?I dont.You dont get the feeling he will hurt you when it counts for the big hit.

[nitetrain8601]

Yes Arod is a great player but iam so tired of everyone just handing him "the best player in mlb".He has put up great numbers throughout his career but I dont think he is the best player in the majors.When we play the Yankees do you really fear Arod in that lineup?I dont.You dont get the feeling he will hurt you when it counts for the big hit.

 

Whose the best player in the majors then?

[shipps]

Pujols and Jeter.And I personally would rather have alot of other players on my team then Arod.Sizemore,Mauer,Miggy to start.

[GoodAsGould]

Pujols and Jeter.And I personally would rather have alot of other players on my team then Arod.Sizemore,Mauer,Miggy to start.

 

Pujols has probably passed A-Rod as the best..... but no way is it Jeter...

[alk3kevin]

Pujols and Jeter.And I personally would rather have alot of other players on my team then Arod.Sizemore,Mauer,Miggy to start.

Career OPS+

AROD: 145

Jeter: 123

Mauer: 128

Miggy: 141

Sizemore: 126

Pujols: 171

[gosox41]

BUT I SAID IT FIRST

 

 

YOu got dibs then. I just don't have time to read through all the posts.

 

 

Bob

[Kalapse]

Career OPS+

AROD: 145

Jeter: 123

Mauer: 128

Miggy: 141

Sizemore: 126

Pujols: 171

Appearantly you havn't seen SportsCenter recently the nice men on the broadcast correctly pointed out that Alex Rodriguez is a bad player, teammate and person in general. I heard that he's never actually gotten a hit in the postseason unlike Jeter who is the Michael Jordan of baseball. On baseball tonight they had an investigative report about how Alex Rodriguez in his first year with the Yankees would actually give poisoned milk to school children, true story.

[jackie hayes]

Appearantly you havn't seen SportsCenter recently the nice men on the broadcast correctly pointed out that Alex Rodriguez is a bad player, teammate and person in general. I heard that he's never actually gotten a hit in the postseason unlike Jeter who is the Michael Jordan of baseball. On baseball tonight they had an investigative report about how Alex Rodriguez in his first year with the Yankees would actually give poisoned milk to school children, true story.

I must have missed that last part. Did they say, was it before or after he molested them?

[Drew]

Pujols has probably passed A-Rod as the best..... but no way is it Jeter...

 

Seriously.

 

Jeter isn't even the best player, let alone shortstop, on his team.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Oct 14, 2006 -> 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must have missed that last part. Did they say, was it before or after he molested them?

After.

 

The drama continued when Fox News labeled him as a Met in the graphic under his name.

[ShoeLessRob]

After.

 

The drama continued when Fox News labeled him as a Met in the graphic under his name.

 

[TLAK]

I must have missed that last part. Did they say, was it before or after he molested them?

just text messages.

[whitesoxfan101]

Appearantly you havn't seen SportsCenter recently the nice men on the broadcast correctly pointed out that Alex Rodriguez is a bad player, teammate and person in general. I heard that he's never actually gotten a hit in the postseason unlike Jeter who is the Michael Jordan of baseball. On baseball tonight they had an investigative report about how Alex Rodriguez in his first year with the Yankees would actually give poisoned milk to school children, true story.

 

People forget the real reason that the Yankees lost the 2001 World Series was that Derek Jeter hit .171 and only had 1 RBI, which was the walk off at New York (his only career walk off homer, btw).

[DBAHO]

Hmmm this should be an interesting discussion;

 

In some respect those two goals are linked in that the team chemistry problem can only be resolved with the trading of Alex Rodriguez and A-Rod represents the Yankees' best chip for acquiring a young power arm for the top of the rotation. That's why the Angels, who were willing to deal Ervin Santana last July as part of a package for the Orioles' Miguel Tejada, remain the Yankees' best trading option for A-Rod. White Sox GM Kenny Williams has long lusted for A-Rod and was the first to come calling last week, letting it be known he'd be willing to give up any one of his three established starters, Freddy Garcia, Javier Vazquez or Mark Buerhle. The Yankees weren't interested. On the other hand, Brandon McCarthy, the White Sox's 6-7 righty with top-of-the-rotation potential, might get their attention. Conceivably, Williams would be willing to include third baseman Joe Crede in any deal in that because, in Josh Fields, he has a blue chip replacement ready for the hot corner. A-Rod's agent, Scott Boras, would probably be interested in that scenario since he also represents Crede, who is up for free agency after next year. The White Sox have told Crede they won't offer him an extension unless he gets a minor operation for his periodically ailing back - which he has so far refused to do.