sircaffey Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 08:35 PM) Zimmerman and Atkins due to what? Zimmerman was a rookie who had a worse statistical season Crede did, while Atkins hit the hell out of the ball....in Coors. Everyone hits the ball in Coors. I will also buy very few arguments based upon defense against Crede. I haven't seen Zimmerman play much, but I've heard that he is very good defensively at 3B. I haven't heard anything at all about Atkins. IMO, Crede is top 4 among 3Bman in the majors. The 3 DA mentioned, and then Crede, and I can't say Rolen is better due to his injury troubles over the past couple years, though he probably is. Chavez was quite bad this year, but I expect a pretty big bounce year from him next year. That's next year, and not now. Zimmerman's a rookie who put up similar if not better stats than Crede...in RFK. Zimmerman should win the GG in the NL for sure. If not this year, he will have many when his career is over. Atkins road stats are sick. Worse defensively than Crede for sure, but much much better offensively. Edited October 10, 2006 by sircaffey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 (edited) Of threads that cover one topic(and not catch-all's, rumors, game-threads, etc)...it's the Vazquez trade. Just a little over 1200 replies to that. Of the rest, the longest was started by ME...yayaya...a rumors thread for the 2004-2005 offseason. Vazquez trade Rumors Thread Unless of course it's just Soxtalk in general, in which case Tony is right by like 3000 Edited October 10, 2006 by witesoxfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 The CBB threads have always been long. 2006's page was 365. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(sircaffey @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 09:21 PM) Zimmerman's a rookie who put up similar if not better stats than Crede...in RFK. Zimmerman should win the GG in the NL for sure. If not this year, he will have many when his career is over. Tigers ERA - 3.84 Twins ERA - 3.95 Indians ERA - 4.41 Royals ERA - 5.65 Mets ERA - 4.14 Marlins ERA - 4.37 Braves ERA - 4.60 Phillies ERA - 4.60 Seeing how similar those ERAs are, and considering how much better offenses are in the AL, I'm going to say that Crede was better. If Zimmerman and Crede were to hypothetically switch places, I think Crede greatly outproduces Zimmerman, though with fewer home runs in all likelyhood. That's not me arguing over who I'd take now or who will be better in the future. That's Zimmerman without a second thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(sircaffey @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 09:21 PM) Zimmerman's a rookie who put up similar if not better stats than Crede...in RFK. Zimmerman should win the GG in the NL for sure. If not this year, he will have many when his career is over. actually, the one knock on Ryan Zimmerman is his putrid defense. He had issues in his only minor league season as well as issues this year in the majors. he's a loooong way from the gold glove. just look at his .965 fielding percentage this season, compare that to .978... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Oct 10, 2006 -> 02:36 AM) actually, the one knock on Ryan Zimmerman is his putrid defense. He had issues in his only minor league season as well as issues this year in the majors. he's a loooong way from the gold glove. just look at his .965 fielding percentage this season, compare that to .978... I thought he's considered one of the best young defensive 3B in history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 09:36 PM) actually, the one knock on Ryan Zimmerman is his putrid defense. He had issues in his only minor league season as well as issues this year in the majors. he's a loooong way from the gold glove. just look at his .965 fielding percentage this season, compare that to .978... That's about exactly the opposite of what I've heard. From what I've seen he looks pretty damn solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Zimmerman has been compared to Schmidt and Rolen. He is a great defensive third baseman. Inge makes a lot of errors, but he is pretty good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 09:36 PM) actually, the one knock on Ryan Zimmerman is his putrid defense. He had issues in his only minor league season as well as issues this year in the majors. he's a loooong way from the gold glove. just look at his .965 fielding percentage this season, compare that to .978... Dude, OMG!!!! Derek Jeter is just as good as Ozzie Smith at defense, just look at their fielding percentages!!!! OMG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 09:45 PM) Your way off base. Coming into the season, everyone wasnt sure if the O was going to be there, but you could count on the D. A Scouting Report from Roto. Here's what Jim Bowden thinks of Zimmerman's defense: Jim Bowden doled out after he was drafted, saying Zimmerman had defensive ability comparable to the all-time greats at third base, to Brooks Robinson and Mike Schmidt and Scott Rolen, 32 Gold Gloves among them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 10:02 PM) Here's what Jim Bowden thinks of Zimmerman's defense: So are you trying to say that he's a bad defender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 10:04 PM) So are you trying to say that he's a bad defender? He's basically a reincarnation of Greg Norton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 This seems to be the White Sox Catch All-Thread at the moment, so I'll post this here. The White Sox went from 9th to 3rd in Runs and 1st to 10th in ERA from 2005 to 2006. It's clear that the pitching was a major problem, so I am in no way placing much blame on the offensive side of things, however... When you have a line-up with Konerko, Thome, and Dye would you rather surround them with players who get on base or guys who play all or nothing style baseball as the White Sox had. I ask this because everybody seems so high on Crede here, but if the White Sox 7-8-9 hadn't gotten on base at such a low clip (.323, .290, .257 respectively) I happen to believe that this team would have been a better all around baseball team. Rally Crede, his great defense, I'm trying not to be close minded here, I just happen to think in a line-up full of big boppers, you need the table setters to, and the demise of the 2006 White Sox could be somewhat credited to the lack of the Bill Mueller's for the Red Sox in '04, the Castillo's and Lowell's of the '03 Marlins, the David Eckstein's and Scott Spiezio's of the '02 Angels and so on.. Thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 10:10 PM) This seems to be the White Sox Catch All-Thread at the moment, so I'll post this here. The White Sox went from 9th to 3rd in Runs and 1st to 10th in ERA from 2005 to 2006. It's clear that the pitching was a major problem, so I am in no way placing much blame on the offensive side of things, however... When you have a line-up with Konerko, Thome, and Dye would you rather surround them with players who get on base or guys who play all or nothing style baseball as the White Sox had. I ask this because everybody seems so high on Crede here, but if the White Sox 7-8-9 hadn't gotten on base at such a low clip (.323, .290, .257 respectively) I happen to believe that this team would have been a better all around baseball team. Rally Crede, his great defense, I'm trying not to be close minded here, I just happen to think in a line-up full of big boppers, you need the table setters to, and the demise of the 2006 White Sox could be somewhat credited to the lack of the Bill Mueller's for the Red Sox in '04, the Castillo's and Lowell's of the '03 Marlins, the David Eckstein's and Scott Spiezio's of the '02 Angels and so on.. Thoughts. With that thought, is Luis Castillo a free agent this year? He would look good with us but I know we have Iguchi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 10:10 PM) This seems to be the White Sox Catch All-Thread at the moment, so I'll post this here. The White Sox went from 9th to 3rd in Runs and 1st to 10th in ERA from 2005 to 2006. It's clear that the pitching was a major problem, so I am in no way placing much blame on the offensive side of things, however... When you have a line-up with Konerko, Thome, and Dye would you rather surround them with players who get on base or guys who play all or nothing style baseball as the White Sox had. I ask this because everybody seems so high on Crede here, but if the White Sox 7-8-9 hadn't gotten on base at such a low clip (.323, .290, .257 respectively) I happen to believe that this team would have been a better all around baseball team. Rally Crede, his great defense, I'm trying not to be close minded here, I just happen to think in a line-up full of big boppers, you need the table setters to, and the demise of the 2006 White Sox could be somewhat credited to the lack of the Bill Mueller's for the Red Sox in '04, the Castillo's and Lowell's of the '03 Marlins, the David Eckstein's and Scott Spiezio's of the '02 Angels and so on.. Thoughts. Although you examples are valid, the 2005 White Sox would have never been if it was not for Joe Crede. The tablesetter that we were missing this year was Podsednik, not Crede. He had a decent first half and the offense behind him was able to make up for his not being great, but he had a horrid second half and the team was almost as bad as Pods in the second half. If you want to blame anybody on the offensive side, make it Pods and maybe even Iguchi, but Iguchi's downfall was having nobody on base to move over thanks to Podsednik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(bulokis @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 09:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> With that thought, is Luis Castillo a free agent this year? He would look good with us but I know we have Iguchi. I'd imagine his 5.75 million dollar option will be picked up next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 10:10 PM) This seems to be the White Sox Catch All-Thread at the moment, so I'll post this here. The White Sox went from 9th to 3rd in Runs and 1st to 10th in ERA from 2005 to 2006. It's clear that the pitching was a major problem, so I am in no way placing much blame on the offensive side of things, however... When you have a line-up with Konerko, Thome, and Dye would you rather surround them with players who get on base or guys who play all or nothing style baseball as the White Sox had. I ask this because everybody seems so high on Crede here, but if the White Sox 7-8-9 hadn't gotten on base at such a low clip (.323, .290, .257 respectively) I happen to believe that this team would have been a better all around baseball team. Rally Crede, his great defense, I'm trying not to be close minded here, I just happen to think in a line-up full of big boppers, you need the table setters to, and the demise of the 2006 White Sox could be somewhat credited to the lack of the Bill Mueller's for the Red Sox in '04, the Castillo's and Lowell's of the '03 Marlins, the David Eckstein's and Scott Spiezio's of the '02 Angels and so on.. Thoughts. Pods, Iguchi, Uribe, and Anderson need to be table setters. Same with AJ in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 10:56 PM) Pods, Iguchi, Uribe, and Anderson need to be table setters. Same with AJ in my mind. That's actually the only reason I'd want Uribe out. If he were in the Yankees lineup, he would've had 100 RBI being a 9 hitter just due to everyone else getting on base around him. In the Sox lineup, his value is completely minimized because there's never anyone on base around him. Plain and simply, he clears the table, he doesn't set it. Iguchi's fine - a .352 OBP is nothing to scoff at - and Anderson was a rookie, so I have no doubt he'll show improvement of some type. Podsednik is gone, and we've all kind of figured that out. Uribe's a wild card, and that's about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Taken off the AP wire tonight. You still want A-Rod?? He is a loser. Paid too much. Give me a hard worker anyday. The Hackensack Record They talk about pinstripe tradition, but the roster is plagued by petty rivalries and jealousies that act as a cancer in the postseason. Derek Jeter can’t stand Alex Rodriguez and refuses to come to his defense. Mike Mussina doesn’t like A-Rod, either, although, come to think of it, the Stanford grad hasn’t much use for any of his teammates. No one talks to Johnson. Everyone thinks Carl Pavano is a joke. The Yankees’ best pitcher, Chien-Ming Wang, is isolated by his limited knowledge of English. On and on, the list of dysfunctions keeps going. Instead of a dynasty, the Yankees have become a newer version of the Braves — consistently outplayed by younger, hungrier teams such as the Diamondbacks (2001), the Angels (2002 and 2004), the Marlins (2003) and now the Tigers. Steinbrenner has only two choices now: He can fire Torre or trade A-Rod. They’re the ones who must answer to the Yankees’ consistent underachievement. By all accounts, The Boss already has decided it’s Torre who’ll go, ready to replace him with Lou Piniella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260039823658 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 11:45 PM) Taken off the AP wire tonight. You still want A-Rod?? Nope. That article has completely changed my mind. Can you guys believe that A-Rod doesn't get along with everyone on his team? What an awful person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 11:55 PM) Nope. That article has completely changed my mind. Can you guys believe that A-Rod doesn't get along with everyone on his team? What an awful person. ENEMIES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurtin Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Oct 10, 2006 -> 12:45 AM) Steinbrenner has only two choices now: He can fire Torre or trade A-Rod. They’re the ones who must answer to the Yankees’ consistent underachievement. By all accounts, The Boss already has decided it’s Torre who’ll go, ready to replace him with Lou Piniella Couldn't (or shouldn't) he do both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Oct 9, 2006 -> 11:45 PM) Taken off the AP wire tonight. You still want A-Rod?? He is a loser. Entirely ARod's fault that the Yankees had a .691 OPS in the 3 games. Definitely. Give me a hard worker anyday. How's ARod sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 The fact that Jeter doesn't like A-Rod is pretty pathetic. As the captain, whether you like the person or not, you're aren't doing your job unless get your teammates ready to go. Perhaps Derek Jeter as the captain is the problem in New York, not that he isn't a hell of a kid, but he's a horrible leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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