Official College Basketball Thread

[IlliniKrush]

If OSU can figure out how to get a bit more of an inside game and not have those quick 10 second possessions where they fire up threes, they will be absolutely deadly.

 

Wisconsing very good fundamentally tonight, I was impressed by their effort.

 

Note, i also loved the 39-2, 12-2 references at Kohl Center

[Jimbo's Drinker]

KU v. OK STate..GULP

[fathom]

great game tonight. taylor and tucker played really well. as much as i'm not a huge wisconsin basketball fan i have to say that after a few years tucker has grown into one of my favorite all-time hoops players. he just gets it done. i'm not sure how his game translates to the pro's, but time and time again he gets it done.

 

i'm also becoming more and more convinced that ohio state has a final four team on its hands. i'm not sure they're going to win it all, but i truly believe they'll be right there when it's all said and done.

 

Tucker missed just as many shots as he had points. He's a good player, but he's severely overrated right now. I can't believe some people are claiming he's the Player of the Year in college basketball this year. Other players who are massively overrated are Dominic James and Brandon Rush. The most underrated players in the country are Mustafa Shakur and Richard Hendrix.

Edited January 10, 2007 by fathom

[Chisoxfn]

Not to combat the Duke bashing, but I haven't noticed a HD game for them yet. The Va Tech game might have been, but that was ABC and I missed it. CBS is the first to do HD games this year that I've seen. I believe the LSU UConn game was the first HD game this year for the ESPNs.

Maybe all there camera's were being taken up by college football? Still no excuse, imo, because they should televise every major sporting event in HD.

[RockRaines]

Maybe all there camera's were being taken up by college football? Still no excuse, imo, because they should televise every major sporting event in HD.

Yes they should. Especially college bball, it really captures the emotion and the details of the event that much better than if the two blocks are occupying the side of the screen.

[ZoomSlowik]

Tucker missed just as many shots as he had points. He's a good player, but he's severely overrated right now. I can't believe some people are claiming he's the Player of the Year in college basketball this year. Other players who are massively overrated are Dominic James and Brandon Rush. The most underrated players in the country are Mustafa Shakur and Richard Hendrix.

 

Your math is off, he had 17 points and was 8-18 from the field. While that's not a great shooting night it's not awful either. He's shooting .496% from the field on the year, which is pretty good. Most of the POY hype so far comes from his big performance against Pitt, that'll vary a bit as the season goes on as more guys get major opportunities.

 

I would probably lean more towards Davis or Hansbrough for POY, or maybe Mario Boggan if Oklahoma State keeps doing well, but I wouldn't really have a problem with Tucker if Wisconsin does well.

[fathom]

Your math is off, he had 17 points and was 8-18 from the field. While that's not a great shooting night it's not awful either. He's shooting .496% from the field on the year, which is pretty good. Most of the POY hype so far comes from his big performance against Pitt, that'll vary a bit as the season goes on as more guys get major opportunities.

 

I would probably lean more towards Davis or Hansbrough for POY, or maybe Mario Boggan if Oklahoma State keeps doing well, but I wouldn't really have a problem with Tucker if Wisconsin does well.

 

He must have had 2 late points then, because you're forgetting that he missed 5 free throws also. Great call on Boggan, as he's been great this season. As much as I hate to say it, Durant's probably been the best overall player in college basketball so far. Hansbrough definitely doesn't deserve it either, as his numbers haven't been anything special so far. With all the talent around him this year, he doesn't get as many touches/playing time.

[ZoomSlowik]

He must have had 2 late points then, because you're forgetting that he missed 5 free throws also. Great call on Boggan, as he's been great this season. As much as I hate to say it, Durant's probably been the best overall player in college basketball so far. Hansbrough definitely doesn't deserve it either, as his numbers haven't been anything special so far. With all the talent around him this year, he doesn't get as many touches/playing time.

 

Well, stats aren't everything, otherwise Morris Almond would probably get it. Besides, Hansbrough has still put up good numbers despite playing less than 30 minutes a game on a loaded team, and they'll probably go up with him playing more against better competition.

 

I would say you should generally give it to the best player that is on one of the top few teams (unless there is a legit candidate on a lesser team, like possibly Glen Davis depending on how LSU ends up). None of Florida or Kansas' guys stand out enough to give it to one of them IMO and Oden missed too much time and hurt his cause with subpar games against Florida and Wisconsin. That leaves Hansbrough, Afflalo, Tucker, and a couple of guys from lower rated teams like Davis, Boggan and Durant. Durant probably won't get it as a freshmen even though he's probably the best player, kind of like Carmelo. His team also hasn't been all that good, which will hurt his cause as well. Afflalo and Tucker are good but not quite dominant. I wouldn't pick those two, but I wouldn't really gripe if they got it.

 

That really only leaves Hansbrough, Davis, and Boggan IMO (feel free to speak up if I'm missing somebody), and since LSU has already lost several games he could drop. Since Hansbrough plays on the #1 team and is an ACC guy I would expect him to get it.

Edited January 10, 2007 by ZoomSlowik

[fathom]

That really only leaves Hansbrough, Davis, and Boggan IMO (feel free to speak up if I'm missing somebody), and since LSU has already lost several games he could drop. Since Hansbrough plays on the #1 team and is an ACC guy I would expect him to get it.

 

If you take Hansbrough off of UNC, they're still a top 10 team. However, if you take Davis and Boggan off of their team, those teams don't even make the tournament.

 

My All-American team (not including Fazekas) at this point of the season is:

 

PG- Shakur/Collison

SG- Dudley/Lofton

C- Boggan/McRoberts

SF- Durant/Tucker

PF- Big Baby/Hansbrough

[Rowand44]

Tucker missed just as many shots as he had points. He's a good player, but he's severely overrated right now. I can't believe some people are claiming he's the Player of the Year in college basketball this year. Other players who are massively overrated are Dominic James and Brandon Rush. The most underrated players in the country are Mustafa Shakur and Richard Hendrix.

Alando had 17 points last night and missed 10 shots. Alando is having a great year and before this game he's shined even brighter in Wiscy's biggest games(Pitt and Marquette). He's averaging close to 20 and 5 and shooting close to 50 percent, like I said, he's having a great year and he will definitely be in the player of the year talk at the end of the year. As far as Rush, he had a lot of preseason hype but that has cooled down big time. He is not having that good of a year at all but I certainly don't think he's severely overrated at this point either. Dominic James on the other hand is completely overrated right now.

 

As far as your underrateds: Mustafa has been so inconsistant before this year that I think it's going to take him some time to earn some of that respect back, as he's been a pretty overrated player through out his career. And Hendrix will become pretty well known as the season goes, that whole Alabama team has just been under the radar so far.

[fathom]

Alando had 17 points last night and missed 10 shots. Alando is having a great year and before this game he's shined even brighter in Wiscy's biggest games(Pitt and Marquette). He's averaging close to 20 and 5 and shooting close to 50 percent, like I said, he's having a great year and he will definitely be in the player of the year talk at the end of the year. As far as Rush, he had a lot of preseason hype but that has cooled down big time. He is not having that good of a year at all but I certainly don't think he's severely overrated at this point either. Dominic James on the other hand is completely overrated right now.

 

First, I explained the missed shot totals above, with the 5 FT added in. As for Rush, it's still crazy to see how some people list him as their best SF in the country. So far this year, he's not even one of the top 5 SF. I don't understand the way Self is using him. Rush just stands on the side out on the perimeter, and never moves. All the team has to do is face guard him, and he's taken out of the game. Other underrated players in the country include the Providence duo of McDermott/Hill, Levance Fields (stats aren't great, but he's a hell of a leader), D.J. Strawberry, and Rich McBride (I joke!).

[ZoomSlowik]

If you take Hansbrough off of UNC, they're still a top 10 team. However, if you take Davis and Boggan off of their team, those teams don't even make the tournament.

 

I disagree, UNC without Hansbrough is basically a more athletic Duke team. They're fairly generously ranked #11, and realistically they haven't played very well this year. They would be extremely young. I would also say LSU still makes the tourney without Davis, albiet they'd be in the 7-10 range. Mitchell and Temple are still pretty solid, and Mason, Martin, and Lazare are all fairly good. Depth would be an issue, but they'd still have talent.

Edited January 10, 2007 by ZoomSlowik

[Rowand44]

First, I explained the missed shot totals above, with the 5 FT added in. As for Rush, it's still crazy to see how some people list him as their best SF in the country. So far this year, he's not even one of the top 5 SF. I don't understand the way Self is using him. Rush just stands on the side out on the perimeter, and never moves. All the team has to do is face guard him, and he's taken out of the game. Other underrated players in the country include the Providence duo of McDermott/Hill, Levance Fields (stats aren't great, but he's a hell of a leader), D.J. Strawberry, and Rich McBride (I joke!).

Ya, after I posted I figured you meant ft's added in, still, he didn't have a great game but he was still solid. And we can sit here for hours and list underrated players, a lot of people fly under the radar in college sports.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Rowand44

[ZoomSlowik]

My All-American team (not including Fazekas) at this point of the season is:

 

PG- Shakur/Collison

SG- Dudley/Lofton

C- Boggan/McRoberts

SF- Durant/Tucker

PF- Big Baby/Hansbrough

 

Hold on, I missed this before. McRoberts as the 2nd team center? Talk about overrated, he has been disappointing. He's very inconsistent, if he were playing to his potential Duke would be a lot better. I'd much rather have either Florida post player, or the one-handed Greg Oden, or Aaron Gray just off the top of my head.

 

And though Shakur has been better than in the past I'd still take Collison. He's got similar numbers across the board and plays much better defense. Man, this is a down year for PG's, my next two are probably an injured Ronald Steele and freshmen Javaris Crittendon.

 

I can't really argue with the rest though, other than the fact that I'm not really sure Dudley qualifies as a SG. I'd probably consider him the #3 SF, with Afflalo as the #1 SG.

[fathom]

Hold on, I missed this before. McRoberts as the 2nd team center? Talk about overrated, he has been disappointing. He's very inconsistent, if he were playing to his potential Duke would be a lot better. I'd much rather have either Florida post player, or the one-handed Greg Oden, or Aaron Gray just off the top of my head.

 

McRoberts has been fantastic in every aspect besides scoring this year. Anyone that was expecting him to replace Redick's scoring is going to be disappointing, but he's far and away the best player on Duke. Noah and Horford offset each other, and neither has been as good as they were last year. No one is a bigger fan of Aaron Gray than I am, but he's struggled recently. He'll be better when he gets more consistent playing time, even though teams are taking away his touches and making Pitt burn them from the perimeter. Sean Williams of BC had a great stretch of games, but he's fallen off the table now. Davidson is a solid center, even though he's trying way too hard to impress scouts with his outside game. He's gone through so much though, and I only wish he can be a first round pick. Ronald Steele has been bad this year, but that's due to injury. If Drew Neitzel qualifies as a point guard, he belongs in the top 3. He's really impressed me this season, and Mich St. would have been so much better the past few years if he played with this much assertiveness.

[Rowand44]

And though Shakur has been better than in the past I'd still take Collison. He's got similar numbers across the board and plays much better defense. Man, this is a down year for PG's, my next two are probably an injured Ronald Steele and freshmen Javaris Crittendon.

I'll throw Acie Law's name into the mix.

[fathom]

BTW, my freshman All-American team so far is:

 

PG- Crittenton/Augustin

SG- Budinger/Beverly

C- Hawes/Oden

SF- Durant/Thad Young

PF- B. Wright/Taj Gibson

[Rowand44]

McRoberts has been fantastic in every aspect besides scoring this year. Anyone that was expecting him to replace Redick's scoring is going to be disappointing, but he's far and away the best player on Duke. Noah and Horford offset each other, and neither has been as good as they were last year. No one is a bigger fan of Aaron Gray than I am, but he's struggled recently. He'll be better when he gets more consistent playing time, even though teams are taking away his touches and making Pitt burn them from the perimeter. Sean Williams of BC had a great stretch of games, but he's fallen off the table now. Davidson is a solid center, even though he's trying way too hard to impress scouts with his outside game. He's gone through so much though, and I only wish he can be a first round pick. Ronald Steele has been bad this year, but that's due to injury. If Drew Neitzel qualifies as a point guard, he belongs in the top 3. He's really impressed me this season, and Mich St. would have been so much better the past few years if he played with this much assertiveness.

McRoberts has been ok. He's a good player at this point but he certainly isn't special and he doesn't belong on an all american team. His scoring and rebounding numbers are similar to Noah's and Horford's and then when you realize they're both shooting nearly 20 percent better than him from the field, it's not much of an argument there.

[fathom]

I'll throw Acie Law's name into the mix.

 

Yep, he's been playing much better recently. It's amazing how poor the point guard position is this season. T. Green has been playing better recently as well.

 

Here's a question I've been pondering:

 

In 5 years, who will be the better pro player: Tyrus Thomas or Josh McRoberts? Personally, I think McRoberts brings more intangibles to the game than Thomas.

 

McRoberts has been ok. He's a good player at this point but he certainly isn't special and he doesn't belong on an all american team. His scoring and rebounding numbers are similar to Noah's and Horford's and then when you realize they're both shooting nearly 20 percent better than him from the field, it's not much of an argument there.

 

McRoberts also doesn't get single coverage every time down the court like Noah and Horford do, and teams don't have to worry about Duke lighting it up from the perimeter like they do with Humphrey, Green, etc. It was amazing last night to see how many short shots Horford and Noah get. I never thought I'd say this, but Donovan actually was designing magnificient plays to get those guys layups.

 

Might I also add that I hate Duke, so please don't think I'm a Duke/Coach K/McRoberts homer. I hope they lose by 30 tonight.

[Rowand44]

Yep, he's been playing much better recently. It's amazing how poor the point guard position is this season. T. Green has been playing better recently as well.

 

Here's a question I've been pondering:

 

In 5 years, who will be the better pro player: Tyrus Thomas or Josh McRoberts? Personally, I think McRoberts brings more intangibles to the game than Thomas.

McRoberts also doesn't get single coverage every time down the court like Noah and Horford do, and teams don't have to worry about Duke lighting it up from the perimeter like they do with Humphrey, Green, etc. It was amazing last night to see how many short shots Horford and Noah get. I never thought I'd say this, but Donovan actually was designing magnificient plays to get those guys layups.

 

Might I also add that I hate Duke, so please don't think I'm a Duke/Coach K/McRoberts homer. I hope they lose by 30 tonight.

Duke does indeed have some decent 3 point shooters. McRoberts is a decent player but at this point imo he's not on Noah or Horford's level, he's got a long way to go before he becomes elite.

 

Thinking about the pg's a little more, a guy who should get some votes for an all american team but definitely wont is Jared Jordan.

[ZoomSlowik]

McRoberts has been fantastic in every aspect besides scoring this year. Anyone that was expecting him to replace Redick's scoring is going to be disappointing, but he's far and away the best player on Duke. Noah and Horford offset each other, and neither has been as good as they were last year. No one is a bigger fan of Aaron Gray than I am, but he's struggled recently. He'll be better when he gets more consistent playing time, even though teams are taking away his touches and making Pitt burn them from the perimeter. Sean Williams of BC had a great stretch of games, but he's fallen off the table now. Davidson is a solid center, even though he's trying way too hard to impress scouts with his outside game. He's gone through so much though, and I only wish he can be a first round pick. Ronald Steele has been bad this year, but that's due to injury. If Drew Neitzel qualifies as a point guard, he belongs in the top 3. He's really impressed me this season, and Mich St. would have been so much better the past few years if he played with this much assertiveness.

 

I wouldn't call him fantastic. His scoring numbers are pedestrian, they really need him to score more than anything. No, he was never going to touch Reddick's performance, but he could easily be over 15 a game if he were more aggressive and finished better, and 18 a game is well within reach. He's a lot more talented offensively than Williams was but doesn't do anywhere near as much with it. His shooting percentage is also fairly low for a big man of his talents. Given how much he plays his rebounding numbers aren't THAT great either. About the only aspects I'd call him above average in are passing (impressive numbers for a big man) and shot-blocking. He's certainly better than your average centers, but I can't put him among the top handful of guys at the position.

 

Both Florida players are just as good statistically, and would be even better if they weren't on the same team. They shoot a much higher percentage from the floor. They also get far fewer minutes per game, both are playing under 25 minutes while McRoberts is over 34. They are significantly more productive, and would crush almost anyone statistically (outside of the top tier guys like Boggan, Davis, Hansbrough, and Fazekas) if they played more. Corey Brewer would also probably be in the discussion at SF on a lot of teams.

 

Gray also plays fewer minutes but is a bit better offensively and is a much better rebounder. He also shoots a much higher percentage. He's not as versatile as McRoberts, but he's more efficient in the traditional big-man areas.

 

I would say Williams is the best defensive player on the list, but he lags behind the others offensively and as a rebounder. 7.1 boards for an athlete like him that plays 32 minutes a game isn't exactly elite.

 

I like Davidson, but he's been awful offensively this year. 39% for a big man with his talents? That's just brutal, though I'm sure his head isn't really in the game. He's a great rebounder and defender though.

 

I'll throw Acie Law's name into the mix.

 

I thought he was more of a shooting guard, but I guess he does qualify. He'd definitely be third on my list, not sure if I'd put him ahead of Collison or Shakur.

[fathom]

I would say Williams is the best defensive player on the list, but he lags behind the others offensively and as a rebounder. 7.1 boards for an athlete like him that plays 32 minutes a game isn't exactly elite.

 

There was a great statistical analysis about how Williams' defense is overrated. He blocks a lot of shots, but BC gives up a ton of points every game. Williams reminds me of Tyrus Thomas from last year, as he's a great weak-side shot blocker, but his man-to-man defense is poor. Speaking of centers, Randolph Morris is actually having quite the quality season. He was such a bust his first two years, but he's very improved now and doesn't look like a robot on offense.

[Palehosefan]

Give me Mike Conley Jr. or Ty Lawson over Crittenton anyday. Both Conley and Lawson take much better care of the basketball.

 

Crittenton, 13.9 ppg 6 apg, 3.6 topg in 29.1 mpg

Lawson, 8.7 ppg, 5.3 apg, 1.7 topg in 23.1 mpg

Conley, 9 ppg, 6.6 apg, 1.9 topg in 28.6 mpg

 

My AA team's right now without much research...

PG. Shakur UA PG. Conley OSU

SG. Curry OkSU SG. Jackson TTU

SF. Durant UT SF. Tucker Wisc.

PF. Hansbrough UNC PF. Davis LSU

C. Noah UF C. Oden OSU

[ZoomSlowik]

Here's a question I've been pondering:

 

In 5 years, who will be the better pro player: Tyrus Thomas or Josh McRoberts? Personally, I think McRoberts brings more intangibles to the game than Thomas.

 

I can definitely agree with that, although part of that is because I've never been a big Thomas fan. He's a heck of an athlete, but he is severely limited in basically every other area.

 

McRoberts isn't quite as good an athlete but is still above average, and he's significantly more talented. He's a damn good inside-outside threat, but he hasn't really shown it at the college level yet. He could be a very solid all-around player, though he hasn't come close to tapping his offensive potential yet.

[Chisoxfn]

Big game for the Hawkeyes tonight against the vast majority of this boards Fightin Illini.