Official College Basketball Thread

[fathom]

I like Davidson, but he's been awful offensively this year. 39% for a big man with his talents? That's just brutal, though I'm sure his head isn't really in the game. He's a great rebounder and defender though.

I thought he was more of a shooting guard, but I guess he does qualify. He'd definitely be third on my list, not sure if I'd put him ahead of Collison or Shakur.

 

My list of top point guards is as follows:

 

Shakur, Collison, Singletary, Crittenton, Law, Conley, James, Augustin

 

Give me Mike Conley Jr. or Ty Lawson over Crittenton anyday. Both Conley and Lawson take much better care of the basketball.

 

Crittenton, 13.9 ppg 6 apg, 3.6 topg in 29.1 mpg

Lawson, 8.7 ppg, 5.3 apg, 1.7 topg in 23.1 mpg

Conley, 9 ppg, 6.6 apg, 1.9 topg in 28.6 mpg

 

Crittenton is asked to do so much more than Lawson is. If he had Lawson's supporting cast, he'd be even better. Lawson's the 4th best freshman pg in the country.

[ZoomSlowik]

There was a great statistical analysis about how Williams' defense is overrated. He blocks a lot of shots, but BC gives up a ton of points every game. Williams reminds me of Tyrus Thomas from last year, as he's a great weak-side shot blocker, but his man-to-man defense is poor. Speaking of centers, Randolph Morris is actually having quite the quality season. He was such a bust his first two years, but he's very improved now and doesn't look like a robot on offense.

 

That's definitely true, though he's much stronger and is a better shot-blocker than Tyrus was. I think another part of it is that he tries to help out in the lane too much going for the block and ends up leaving his man or someone else open.

 

Morris has definitely improved a lot, I'd probably put him in the same tier as McRoberts, just below the other top options. He's always been very talented, but he's finally playing aggressively on offense. He's also finally putting up rebounding and shot-blocking numbers worthy of his abilities.

 

Another big man that has quietly been pretty solid is Kyle Visser. Too bad he's on a mediocre Wake Forest team, so he probably won't get noticed unless he has a big game against Duke or UNC.

 

My list of top point guards is as follows:

 

Shakur, Collison, Singletary, Crittenton, Law, Conley, James, Augustin

 

Arg, I can't believe I forgot about Singletary.

Edited January 10, 2007 by ZoomSlowik

[SnB]

Big game for the Hawkeyes tonight against the vast majority of this boards Fightin Illini.

a must-win for this squad. Gotta win these games at home. The guards have to step up and have a big game, it seems like it's been forever since they've done anything.

[AssHatSoxFan]

a must-win for this squad. Gotta win these games at home. The guards have to step up and have a big game, it seems like it's been forever since they've done anything.

it sounded like randle is fully healthy too; let's hope everyone hits their shots and randle does something to get the crowd going

[IlliniKrush]

Big game for the Hawkeyes tonight against the vast majority of this boards Fightin Illini.

Win or you might as well board up the Hall for the rest of the season. If you can't beat Iowa at home (I bet we're favored by around 10) after a losing streak like this...enough said. If we shoot with our eyes closed tonight we'll probly have a better % than we did against OSU.

[Chisoxfn]

Win or you might as well board up the Hall for the rest of the season. If you can't beat Iowa at home (I bet we're favored by around 10) after a losing streak like this...enough said. If we shoot with our eyes closed tonight we'll probly have a better % than we did against OSU.

I want to see if Iowa comes out flat on the road. We all know how tough it is to play on the road in the Big 10, especially at Assembly Hall. Even with you guys struggling a bit, you are still a more talented team than my Hawkeyes (at least with the Hawkeyes still waiting for a consistent 3rd scorer). However, if Iowa plays like it did against MSU well we may just have a game.

 

Too bad this thing isn't televised nationally cause I'd love to catch it. GO Hawkeyes!!!!!

[RockRaines]

BTW, my freshman All-American team so far is:

 

PG- Crittenton/Augustin

SG- Budinger/Beverly

C- Hawes/Oden

SF- Durant/Thad Young

PF- B. Wright/Taj Gibson

No Michael Conley? The guy is top 5 in assists in the nation, with a god-like turnover to assist ratio.

[fathom]

No Michael Conley? The guy is top 5 in assists in the nation, with a god-like turnover to assist ratio.

 

Him and Augustin have basically the same value in my opinion, but I was incredibly impressed by Augustin's performance vs LSU. As I said above, there are 3 great freshman point guards this year. Conley's in a great system to rack up the assists, as he has a ton of catch-and-shoot players on the perimeter. He's going to be a fantastic 4 year player. I always did love watching his dad in those celebrity dunk contests.

[CWSGuy406]

If you take Hansbrough off of UNC, they're still a top 10 team. However, if you take Davis and Boggan off of their team, those teams don't even make the tournament.

 

And if you take Tucker off of Wisconsin, where are they? They probably don't beat Marquette or Pittsburg, among other games...

 

It would be one thing if Tucker was a ball-hog with typical AI type numbers, ie 20 PPG but shooting 8-for-25 from the field. But he's not. He has an awesome mid-range game and is extremely tough to guard, especially when Bo Ryan posts him up.

 

Calling him overrated is quite silly, IMO.

[fathom]

And if you take Tucker off of Wisconsin, where are they? They probably don't beat Marquette or Pittsburg, among other games...

 

It would be one thing if Tucker was a ball-hog with typical AI type numbers, ie 20 PPG but shooting 8-for-25 from the field. But he's not. He has an awesome mid-range game and is extremely tough to guard, especially when Bo Ryan posts him up.

 

Calling him overrated is quite silly, IMO.

 

At no time when I'm watching him do I feel "wow, this is the best player in college basketball". I know he's a virtual lock to be a first-team All-American, but he needs more games like he did vs Pitt and Marquette before I'll feel like he deserves it over Durant. His FT shooting is still poor, and you'd like to see him get more rebounds per game than he does.

 

I would say that Durant and Big Baby should be the top two in the running for POY right now. It will be interesting to see if Durant keeps up his performance in Big 12 play. He's been amazingly consistent so far, and has actually impressed me more than Carmelo did at this stage of his freshman year.

Edited January 10, 2007 by fathom

[CWSGuy406]

At no time when I'm watching him do I feel "wow, this is the best player in college basketball". I know he's a virtual lock to be a first-team All-American, but he needs more games like he did vs Pitt and Marquette before I'll feel like he deserves it over Durant. His FT shooting is still poor, and you'd like to see him get more rebounds per game than he does.

 

I guess it goes back to baseball's MVP debate -- ie, how is it judged? Do you look at it by, say, taking him off the team and asking where that team would be? Or just best overall numbers?

 

Because, while I'm not as knowledgable of non-Marquette college basketball, it'd be tough for someone to make a bigger case than Tucker in the "if you took him off the team, where would that team be?" argument.

 

Rebounding-wise, I don't have numbers in front of me but he certainly doesn't strike me as a poor rebounder. He's quite physical and has a strong frame. If his rebounds per game are low, I'd like to see that number at the end of the season, as I would guess that the low number would be more luck than anything.

 

Free throws are obviously a flaw of his that needs to be corrected.

 

I also noticed that you have Dominic James on your top list. Something is wrong with him this year and I don't know what the hell it is, but it needs to change. Whereas last year he was quick and nobody could guard him one-on-one, this year he seems content with shooting the three despite the fact that he sucks from there. He seems like a less intense player this year, and if he doesn't pick it up ASAP, Marquette is looking at missing the tourney, which would be quite a hit to the program.

 

BTW -- Marquette at UConn tonight. We're 0-2 so far in the Big East, and looking at 0-3 -- UConn is basically a more athletic version of Marquette with good big men (or, at least physical and athletic freaks), something MU doesn't have. Things ain't lookin' so good for the other team in Wisconsin...

[ZoomSlowik]

At no time when I'm watching him do I feel "wow, this is the best player in college basketball". I know he's a virtual lock to be a first-team All-American, but he needs more games like he did vs Pitt and Marquette before I'll feel like he deserves it over Durant. His FT shooting is still poor, and you'd like to see him get more rebounds per game than he does.

 

I would say that Durant and Big Baby should be the top two in the running for POY right now. It will be interesting to see if Durant keeps up his performance in Big 12 play. He's been amazingly consistent so far, and has actually impressed me more than Carmelo did at this stage of his freshman year.

 

Well, there's often a difference between the best player and the player of the year, at least in recent years. It's basically an MVP award, which of course doesn't always go to the best player. For instance, Carmelo Anthony was a better player than T.J. Ford, Emeka Okafor was probably better than Jameer Nelson (kind of debatable, and Okafor did get hurt), Webber was probably a better player than Calbert Chaney, and guys like Shaq and Allen Iverson never won it.

 

If we're simply talking best player, then I think the top 3 are Durant, Davis, and Oden, with possibly Noah entering the conversation. If we're talking player of the year, I think it's Hansbrough, Davis, Afflalo, and Tucker.

[RockRaines]

Him and Augustin have basically the same value in my opinion, but I was incredibly impressed by Augustin's performance vs LSU. As I said above, there are 3 great freshman point guards this year. Conley's in a great system to rack up the assists, as he has a ton of catch-and-shoot players on the perimeter. He's going to be a fantastic 4 year player. I always did love watching his dad in those celebrity dunk contests.

I can agree with that. He is going to be something though, and if Oden stays (which I think he will) they are going to keep making the two man game beneficial for OSU. They showed one flash of that last night, and Conley has shown that even as a frosh he can run the team.

[fathom]

I can agree with that. He is going to be something though, and if Oden stays (which I think he will) they are going to keep making the two man game beneficial for OSU. They showed one flash of that last night, and Conley has shown that even as a frosh he can run the team.

 

I have this analysis on Ohio St.: they need to run and gun, and not set up plays for Oden. He's nowhere close to being polished with his back to the basket. He's much more effective on the offensive boards and receiving lobs. I watched Ohio St. earlier this year, and all of their guys seemed more effective when they were spreading out the court and dishing to the perimeter. Also, by getting in an up-tempo game, it might make it harder for teams to make an effort to go at Oden and get him in foul trouble.

[Soxbadger]

they need to run and gun

 

The problem is Oden is clearly not 100% in shape. Last night Wisconsin pushed its biggest lead when they were attacking OSU in transition and beating Oden to the basket. He would still be outside of the 3 point arc trying to get back on defense while Wisconsin would penetrate.

 

The difference last night compared to Florida and UNC, is that Wisconsin is happy running out clock and making the game come down to set plays. This benefited Oden because he was not forced to run up and down the court, so he was able to get rest and become more effective down the stretch.

 

I think right now Oden can be effective for 20 minutes if hes forced to run and in an up tempo game, and for 30 minutes if the game is slowed and has more half court sets. By the end of the season I expect he will be full strength, so really this will benefit OSU because it will force them to get better in the offensive half court.

 

OSU has lost to what the 1,2,3 teams in the nation. They are young and all of those experiences are going to make it so that when the tournament comes around they will have played in enough pressure situations to win big games. Its not like they are losing games they are supposed to win, they destroyed Illinois.

[RockRaines]

OSU has lost to what the 1,2,3 teams in the nation.

on the road as well

 

I have this analysis on Ohio St.: they need to run and gun, and not set up plays for Oden. He's nowhere close to being polished with his back to the basket. He's much more effective on the offensive boards and receiving lobs. I watched Ohio St. earlier this year, and all of their guys seemed more effective when they were spreading out the court and dishing to the perimeter. Also, by getting in an up-tempo game, it might make it harder for teams to make an effort to go at Oden and get him in foul trouble.

It could be true. He also doesnt have the advantage of using his right hand much as it is hurting his shot, and his free throws. With time they may be able to use the post-kick out system, but at this point I think you are correct. Both big men should also be much more active in the post than they are, which showed when he started really trying to get position near the end of the game. Im sure Matta will figure it out, hes a good coach.

[Rowand44]

IU taking it to Purdue in the first half, up 13.

 

We're about to tip off in Peoria against Bradley, GO DAWGS!!!!!

[Brian]

Da Dawgs!

[Rowand44]

Up 2 at half. Had the game under control, Lowery takes Tatum, Falker and Shaw all at the same time, they quickly get it down to 5 and it's been a close game ever since. Way too many damn turnovers.

 

In other news, Shockers losing at Indiana State by 6 with under a minute left in the game. If ISU holds on here, you can stick a fork in WSU as far as winning the Valley goes.

 

And the Shockers do indeed lose. And with that loss goes any shot of them winning the league.

[Rex Hudler]

The problem is Oden is clearly not 100% in shape.

 

Which I don't get. I mean the guy spent who knows how many hours shooting left handed so he could shoot when he came back. Why could he not have spent equal effort in getting in shape? I know there is a difference in game shape vs. practice shape, but froma cardiovascular standpoint, he should have been in 3x better shape.

 

And just in case you missed it, IU settles in for a 27-point win over Purdue, 85-58. An output of 85 is not bad considering they had just 15 points 12 1/2 minutes into the game(PU had 7).

 

Oh, and Duke lost to GA Tech!

[greasywheels121]

Boo IU, you should've won by 30.

[aboz56]

IU wins again, who's next to take a beatdown?

[Rex Hudler]

Boo IU, you should've won by 30.

 

LOL I went to a bar and told a friend we could leave when we got up by 30. At 74-44 with 5 1/2 minutes left, I got up and walked out the door with a nice big smile. Nothing like beating the s*** out of Purdue.

[WHarris1]

Boo IU, you should've won by 30.

If only they had...

[greasywheels121]

If only they had...

 

George Leach would've assured as much.