Official College Basketball Thread

[redandwhite]

Ohio St is really coming into its own as a program. I also agree with you that on the road in college basketball, even the best teams can lose which justifies those losses in my opinion. And I also agree with you that the Big Ten is rather weak this year.

 

I see no problem in this argument with Rock, I just happen to think this is one of Ohio St's best chances, if not the best. Similar to George Mason last year, Marquette in 2003, Oklahoma in 2002, Ohio St with Boston College recruits in 1999, Minnesota in 1997, and my favorite UMass in 1996 to name a few.. Hell I'd even add in that last years Boston College squad had the best chance at a National Championship than they'll ever have.

 

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jan 18, 2007 -> 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wiscy and OSU are considered the only locks for the Big Ten conference right now. And I find that to be kind of humorous. With the exception of edging IU at home, I don't think there's much more that Ohio State has done that Indiana hasn't done.

 

Excellent point.

 

Also, because RockRaines blocked me and I can't send him messages, this was directed in PM for him:

 

I'm not an angry IU fan by any means. I think Ohio St has a good team, I just don't happen to think they're going to be this incredible program year after year that you seem to think Matta is turning them into. Also, as greasy indicated, while Ohio St did play three tough road games, -I've already said are pretty much a crap shoot even if you're the best team in the nation- I don't necessarily think Ohio St has done anything that Indiana hasn't done and with us playing both Wisconsin and you guys only one time each, we should have a very solid chance at being a 1 or 2 seed in the Big Ten tournament and as a result could be placed rather high in the NCAA tournament. Of course, we could lose every game from this day forward and none of that would happen.

 

No hard feelings on this issue, I wish that we never had any, but it is what it is.

[ZoomSlowik]

As a neutral party, I'll throw my two cents in...

 

OSU is a bit better than Indiana. I don't think that there is really any debate that they are more talented, and though they only won by 7 against Indiana, the Hoosiers were also 12-22 from the arc in that game. Yeah, part of that can be attributed to OSU's struggles with perimeter defense this year, but it's still a damn good performance. So even on a stellar shooting night with a poor shooting night from OSU (4-15 from the arc), they still fell a little short.

 

That doesn't mean that Indiana sucks, or that OSU is a juggernaut. The Buckeyes still have some issues, they are a young team. Right now they're a good but not great team, but they have the ability to do some big things if they iron out some issues (mainly perimeter defense, getting better at giving Oden the ball where he can do some damage, shot selection, eliminating silly mistakes).

 

Also, I'm going to side with Rock, this isn't a one-year thing. Even if Oden and Cook go pro (doesn't look like a great chance of that so far), they'd still have Conley, Butler, Hunter, and Lighty, as well as a strong recruiting class led by 7-footer Kosta Koufuos (#12 on rivals), SF Evan Turner (#45), and SG Jon Deibler (#65). He has an even stronger class lined up for 2008, with B.J. Mullens (#3, another 7-footer), Anthony Crater (#24), William Buford (#49), and Walter Offutt (#92). They won't exactly be short on talent.

[fathom]

Also, I'm going to side with Rock, this isn't a one-year thing. Even if Oden and Cook go pro (doesn't look like a great chance of that so far), they'd still have Conley, Butler, Hunter, and Lighty, as well as a strong recruiting class led by 7-footer Kosta Koufuos (#12 on rivals), SF Evan Turner (#45), and SG Jon Deibler (#65). He has an even stronger class lined up for 2008, with B.J. Mullens (#3, another 7-footer), Anthony Crater (#24), William Buford (#49), and Walter Offutt (#92). They won't exactly be short on talent.

 

Say what? Oden's not going to pass up going to the NBA. I don't care what he says....he's going pro. Also, it's widely known that Cook's family has a lot of financial trouble, and they even said on Saturday's telecast that it's a sure thing he's going pro. Cook has the type of game that NBA scouts love, and he's in the top 10 on some big boards.

[ZoomSlowik]

Say what? Oden's not going to pass up going to the NBA. I don't care what he says....he's going pro. Also, it's widely known that Cook's family has a lot of financial trouble, and they even said on Saturday's telecast that it's a sure thing he's going pro. Cook has the type of game that NBA scouts love, and he's in the top 10 on some big boards.

 

I hadn't heard that about Cook, that changes my perspective a little. Not sure that's too smart, he'd go higher in future drafts. Most things I've seen have him as borderline lottery to mid-first. Ford has him at 19, nbadraft.net has him at 17, draftexpress has him at 20.

 

As for Oden, every indication seems to be that he'll be back. He seems to genuinely like college, and his parents seem to want him to stay in school. Plus with the wrist he could try to stay and improve on his game before going. I know a bunch of people say that, but he seems to really mean it. Obviously he still could go pro, but right now I think he pulls a Noah.

 

Plus my whole point was that even if both of them do go, they're not exactly devoid of talent.

[fathom]

Plus my whole point was that even if both of them do go, they're not exactly devoid of talent.

 

I completely agree with you. They're definitely the "IT" program right now. I'm just thankful my hated Illini didn't hire Thad.

[Soxbadger]

I think OSU is presently better than Indiana.

 

And these posts about OSU never winning a NC in basketball are just out there. Yes I know IU has won 5 NC's, unfortunately not 1 of them has been since 1990.

 

As a Wisconsin fan, Im more afraid of OSU this year and the coming years, as compared to Indiana.

[Rowand44]

OSU is the more talented team, there is no doubt about that but IU also defends better and is probably the best defensive team in the conference. I'm pretty sure that Greasy's point was that IU has done just as much as OSU so far this season, yet OSU has the Oden hype train.

 

I do think that OSU is better but this IU team is very good and very dangerous, when you defend like they do, you can compete with anyone.

[RockRaines]

Ohio St is really coming into its own as a program. I also agree with you that on the road in college basketball, even the best teams can lose which justifies those losses in my opinion. And I also agree with you that the Big Ten is rather weak this year.

 

I see no problem in this argument with Rock, I just happen to think this is one of Ohio St's best chances, if not the best. Similar to George Mason last year, Marquette in 2003, Oklahoma in 2002, Ohio St with Boston College recruits in 1999, Minnesota in 1997, and my favorite UMass in 1996 to name a few.. Hell I'd even add in that last years Boston College squad had the best chance at a National Championship than they'll ever have.

Excellent point.

 

Also, because RockRaines blocked me and I can't send him messages, this was directed in PM for him:

 

I'm not an angry IU fan by any means. I think Ohio St has a good team, I just don't happen to think they're going to be this incredible program year after year that you seem to think Matta is turning them into. Also, as greasy indicated, while Ohio St did play three tough road games, -I've already said are pretty much a crap shoot even if you're the best team in the nation- I don't necessarily think Ohio St has done anything that Indiana hasn't done and with us playing both Wisconsin and you guys only one time each, we should have a very solid chance at being a 1 or 2 seed in the Big Ten tournament and as a result could be placed rather high in the NCAA tournament. Of course, we could lose every game from this day forward and none of that would happen.

 

No hard feelings on this issue, I wish that we never had any, but it is what it is.

I agree with you, in no way was I attacking you or anyone in this thread. In fact I think of Ohio state as a good team right now, not even a great team. The only reason I have lots of confidence in the program is because of Thad Matta. In two years as a Buckeye, Matta has more wins than any previous Ohio State head coach after two seasons on the job with a 46-18 record. Matta is one of just two coaches nationally to post 20 or more wins in each of his first six seasons as a head coach. The 2006 Big Ten Conference and USBWA District V Coach of the Year, Matta tied an Ohio State record for wins by a rookie coach (20) in 2004-05. Gary Williams, currently the head coach at Maryland, posted a 20-13 record in 1986-87. Matta (2005 and `06) and Williams (1987 and `88) are the only two Ohio State coaches to record 20 or more wins in each of their first two seasons in Columbus.

 

If you have a coach come in and immediately become one of the best you have had, it makes you think that the program is on the up and up. Especially after he didnt exactly inherit a program filled with stars players from another great coach (Jk Illinois fans) but he took over a program that was mired in negativity and NCAA violations. Also there is some fallout from the success that Tressell has had on the football field and alot of that positivity flows over to the bball program which is proving to be great in both mens and womens.

 

Also the reason that the team could fail is Thad Matta. He has proven that he can coach inferior talent to high levels of success like he did at Xavier and Butler. At this point he hasnt really proven that he can coach teams loaded with superior talent, which could be his downfall ultimately. He has proven that he can recruit though and that is a huge positive.

 

Keep in mind that I do not think that they are an elite team by any sense of the word at this point, but there is a great feeling of a team and program that has alot of potential moving forward. I actually believe that the Big Ten, although down this year, are in store for some very good years ahead of them with Mich, IU, Purdue, and MSU having great talent coming.

[Chisoxfn]

OSU is the more talented team, there is no doubt about that but IU also defends better and is probably the best defensive team in the conference. I'm pretty sure that Greasy's point was that IU has done just as much as OSU so far this season, yet OSU has the Oden hype train.

 

I do think that OSU is better but this IU team is very good and very dangerous, when you defend like they do, you can compete with anyone.

Heck, Iowa may be the 2nd best defensive team in the conference. Of course they have almost zero offense (outside of Smith/Haluska) and because of that will not make the tourney (unless they find some other scoring options).

[Soxbadger]

If Iowa and Indiana are the best 2 defenses, I guess Wisconsin isnt in the picture.

 

 

http://bigtenwonk.blogspot.com/

 

Some interesting Big 10 stats there.

 

Im sure that there was no disrespect ment by the posts, but its hard to really believe that Wisconsin does not have 1 of the top 2 D's in the Big 10.

[Rowand44]

If Iowa and Indiana are the best 2 defenses, I guess Wisconsin isnt in the picture.

 

 

http://bigtenwonk.blogspot.com/

 

Some interesting Big 10 stats there.

 

Im sure that there was no disrespect ment by the posts, but its hard to really believe that Wisconsin does not have 1 of the top 2 D's in the Big 10.

No disrespect to Wiscy at all, I like them as a team a lot and they are a very good defensive team. My personal opinion based on watching both teams is that IU is a better defensive team, though you can certainly make an argument for Wiscy.

Edited January 19, 2007 by Rowand44

[Soxbadger]

The problem I feel Indiana will have is matching up against big teams.

 

DJ white and Ben Allen will be significantly undersized against a team like Wisconsin. Hard to guard the paint with 1 6'9 guy and 1 6'11 guy when Wisconsin can pull a line up with Butch, Chapelle, Landry, and thats not even adding Steisma to the mix.

 

Against Iowa I felt Indiana looked a little small. We will see how it all plays out, but right now I think Wisconsin and OSU are the 2 best D's (both have only given up 70 points 2 times) and IU a close 3rd (also has only given up 70 points only 2 times just not as big so may have problems with some teams.)

 

But we will see what happens. Im not all that confident in the Wisconsin v Indiana game because Wisconsin struggles against small teams. If you look at the NU and Purdue games both teams effectively played small line ups and packed the paint. I expect Sampson to have DJ White as the biggest player on the floor and try and use speed and quickness to get at Wisconsin.

 

If Bo Ryan does not realize bounce passes are to dangerous against small line ups Wisconsin will struggle against teams like NU who are willing to play an unorthodox style and try and frustrate Wisconsin.

 

In ththe Indiana game the biggest match up I believe will be DJ White versus Landry. Right now he is Wisconsin's best defender and generally is the stopper when it comes to big men (even defending Oden). Should be interesting to see how Wisconsin starts to change their philosophy because teams are really trying some different strategies to win.

 

First they have to beat Illinois and Wisconsin has not faired well against them since the Weber take over.

 

It really is still early in the Big 10 season and almost anything can happen. I think Wisconsin has enough quality wins to make the NCAA unless they really unrival so at this point its all about a championship and seeding.

Edited January 19, 2007 by Soxbadger

[Rowand44]

In the Valley is crazy/insane category: UNI defeats Mo State in Springfield, Drake beats Indiana State and Wichita State loses to Illinois State.

 

Anyone watching the simeon/oakhill game? Their pa just said "you can put it on the board...yes"

[whitesoxfan101]

Just got back from the Pavillion. Damn, that Oak Hill school does a great job recruiting, like 5 high major prospects, mostly 4 and 5 stars. But they really don't play any defense, and Simeon did a nice job exposing them. Rose has to be the best HS guard i've ever seen in this state, he dominated the game on both ends, like 27 and 10 and he shut down Oak Hill's stud point guard, who i saw balling his eyes out after he fouled out on the bench. Scary that that Simeon team will have trouble even getting back downstate since they will have to go through St. Joe's again, and equally as sad that Rose won't spend his 1 and done in Champaign. Thanks Bruce.

[Rowand44]

Zona goes down at USC.

[redandwhite]

Being a GOLD member (ah thank you) on eagleaction.com for years now as well as members of other boards, we all became friendly with Sean's mom. I was waiting for a response from her, knowing that eventually she'd respond.

 

Here it is:

 

"I came on this morning....to say thanks you to the fans of Boston College and especially the fans of Sean. While I am extremely disappointed (frustrated, mad and angry) with the events that have transpired, I did want to express that, as fans, there are no better. Over the last few years you guys have brought much laughter and insight of BC sports to me!

 

As for those who want to speculate, and look for rumors, on what happen....good luck. Some of you are not even close to knowing what happen.

 

Keep cheering for the Eagles...as we will...if you are inclined, pray for all of us.....

 

Wishing you guys the very best.

 

BCMOM "

 

***

 

Sean better be ready to get b**** slapped.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Zona goes down at USC.

 

 

The KU win against USC is looking better and better.

[ZoomSlowik]

Zona goes down at USC.

 

Not exactly surprising, they play little to no defense, have no interior game, and play in a fairly deep conference. It could easily be 3 losses in a row for them, they got UCLA on Saturday.

[Rowand44]

Not exactly surprising, they play little to no defense, have no interior game, and play in a fairly deep conference. It could easily be 3 losses in a row for them, they got UCLA on Saturday.

I'm not a Zona fan at all, they're very overrated. Now, they can score with anyone in the country, but their starting center plays like a 2 guard and most importantly they are awful defensively. They're going to lose a lot of games in the pac 10 as it is a very deep conference.

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm not a Zona fan at all, they're very overrated. Now, they can score with anyone in the country, but their starting center plays like a 2 guard and most importantly they are awful defensively. They're going to lose a lot of games in the pac 10 as it is a very deep conference.

 

True, they can definitely score. Budinger and Williams are supremely talented, and their other 3 starters are talented too. However, their total lack of defense, interior scoring, and depth (all 5 starters play over 30 minutes per game) is going to really hurt them in Pac-10 play, and they still have a game against UNC.

[Heads22]

Is Iowa State the only team that plays both Greg Oden and Kevin Durant this year?

 

Or for that matter, ever?

 

---

 

I'm glad ISU athletics hasn't forgotten its a cocktease.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Is Iowa State the only team that plays both Greg Oden and Kevin Durant this year?

 

Or for that matter, ever?

 

---

 

I'm glad ISU athletics hasn't forgotten its a cocktease.

 

 

Is that an excuse for making the NIT, instead of the dance.

[Heads22]

Is that an excuse for making the NIT, instead of the dance.

 

 

No, but my excuse for that Colorado game is McDermott refusing to play Cory Johnson, of the 10 points and 3 boards in 10 minutes Johnsons.

 

I was just wondering if any other team had to play the two.

[danman31]

Michigan State already beat Texas and plays OSU in conference.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Michigan State already beat Texas and plays OSU in conference.

 

 

good call!!!