Official College Basketball Thread

[Felix]

The scouts say different, Oden has been the consensus #1 the whole time and nothing appears to be changing. Teams are going to take the big man over the perimeter player pretty much regardless. Yes, Durant is a potential star and right now is the best player in college basketball, but teams don't pass on athletic 7-footers.

I think thats how it goes. Honestly, I doubt it matters how good Durant or any other player is, teams just won't pass on a player like Oden is and like he projects to be.

 

 

Also, Minnesota beat Northwestern today. TAKE THAT NU! (we can ignore the embarrassing performance the Gophers put up against NU in Minnesota a few weeks ago)

Edited February 1, 2007 by Felix

[whitesoxfan101]

The scouts say different, Oden has been the consensus #1 the whole time and nothing appears to be changing. Teams are going to take the big man over the perimeter player pretty much regardless. Yes, Durant is a potential star and right now is the best player in college basketball, but teams don't pass on athletic 7-footers.

 

The scouts can say whatever the hell they want, but they are dead wrong. Just like they were about Ryan Leaf, Sam Bowie, Stromile Swift, Michael Olowokandi, etc. Actually that's a bad analogy, because I think Oden will be a very good pro. But he has not nearly lived up to the hype at all, and Durant is unreal.

 

And wow Seth Davis is an idiot. POY is once again a 2 horse race, this time between Durant and Tucker. As for Durant, I'd say he's the best college player since Glenn Robinson at Purdue, at least based on waht i've seen.

Edited February 1, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[ZoomSlowik]

What if the Suns get Durant? lol. They've got the Atlanta Hawks pick this June.

 

Oh god, I really don't want to think about Phoenix getting either of those guys. Either they get a small forward that gives them even more firepower, or they get another athletic big man to pair with Stoudemire that would drastically improve their defense and making them damn near impossible to guard inside. Either way, the rest of the league would be f***ed.

[Rowand44]

The scouts can say whatever the hell they want, but they are dead wrong. Just like they were about Ryan Leaf, Sam Bowie, Stromile Swift, MIchael Olowokandi, etc.

 

And wow Seth Davis is an idiot. POY is once again a 2 horse race, this time between Durant and Tucker. As for Durant, I'd say he's the best college player since Glenn Robinson at Purdue, at least based on waht i've seen.

Scouts also like defense(ok, well maybe they dont in the NBA). Look, Durant is a special, special talent but Oden is as good of a center potentially as there has been in years. Durant is far ahead of Oden right now in offensive ability but he's not even close to being the game changer defensively that Greg is.

 

I like Durant but if I have the first pick, Oden is still a no brainer to me.

[whitesoxfan101]

Having seen Oden play 7 or 8 times now, he's not nearly aggresive enough on the glass and his offensive game is much more raw than advertised in the post, but his presence on defense is crazy good. Now I know that sounds eerily like Patrick Ewing at Georgetown (and I think the comparision will hold a lot of water over the years), but I've never seen anything like Durant pre NBA in my life, outside of LeBron.

[ZoomSlowik]

The scouts can say whatever the hell they want, but they are dead wrong. Just like they were about Ryan Leaf, Sam Bowie, Stromile Swift, Michael Olowokandi, etc. Actually that's a bad analogy, because I think Oden will be a very good pro. But he has not nearly lived up to the hype at all, and Durant is unreal.

 

And wow Seth Davis is an idiot. POY is once again a 2 horse race, this time between Durant and Tucker. As for Durant, I'd say he's the best college player since Glenn Robinson at Purdue, at least based on waht i've seen.

 

It's REALLY early to say whether they are wrong or not. Right now Durant appears to be better, but that's not what they're worried about. If 10 years from now Durant is basically McGrady and Oden is basically Duncan, the big guy is going to win out.

 

It doesn't really matter if they're wrong or not, they have the ultimate say on who goes #1, which is the whole argument. Yes, Durant can easily be the better player, just like Jordan was better than Olajuwon, but that doesn't change who went #1 in the draft. That's an entirely different argument. Most GM's are going to take the guy who could be the next great center because those guys are in pretty short supply, especially a guy that is already as good defensively as Oden.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

It's REALLY early to say whether they are wrong or not. Right now Durant appears to be better, but that's not what they're worried about. If 10 years from now Durant is basically McGrady and Oden is basically Duncan, the big guy is going to win out.

 

It doesn't really matter if they're wrong or not, they have the ultimate say on who goes #1, which is the whole argument. Yes, Durant can easily be the better player, just like Jordan was better than Olajuwon, but that doesn't change who went #1 in the draft. That's an entirely different argument. Most GM's are going to take the guy who could be the next great center because those guys are in pretty short supply, especially a guy that is already as good defensively as Oden.

 

Great centers win you championships...Jordan was an anomaly...

[whitesoxfan101]

It's REALLY early to say whether they are wrong or not. Right now Durant appears to be better, but that's not what they're worried about. If 10 years from now Durant is basically McGrady and Oden is basically Duncan, the big guy is going to win out.

 

It doesn't really matter if they're wrong or not, they have the ultimate say on who goes #1, which is the whole argument. Yes, Durant can easily be the better player, just like Jordan was better than Olajuwon, but that doesn't change who went #1 in the draft. That's an entirely different argument. Most GM's are going to take the guy who could be the next great center because those guys are in pretty short supply, especially a guy that is already as good defensively as Oden.

 

Yeah, fair enough. That is all accurate, and Oden is going to go #1. I'm just saying....Durant, I've never seen anything like this guy.

[ZoomSlowik]

Having seen Oden play 7 or 8 times now, he's not nearly aggresive enough on the glass and his offensive game is much more raw than advertised in the post, but his presence on defense is crazy good. Now I know that sounds eerily like Patrick Ewing at Georgetown (and I think the comparision will hold a lot of water over the years), but I've never seen anything like Durant pre NBA in my life, outside of LeBron.

 

People keep forgetting that he's still wearing the brace on his right wrist, he's just now close to getting back to 100%, and is still shooting left-handed. That seriously affects his post moves and his development in that area. It's also hard to look aggressive when he consistently draws a crowd and the OSU guards are sub-par at getting him the ball. He's still much farther along than most big men, especially for freshmen.

 

The reason that you haven't seen anyone like Durant in college for a long time is that those kind of guys went pro before this year. T-Mac and Kobe easily would have been similar, and guys like Rashard Lewis and Al Harrington probably could have been similar, or quite possibly Jonathan Bender, Josh Smith, or Gerald Green. You also haven't seen a dominant true freshmen big man like that in a while either.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

The road game at DePaul is going to be a toughie, even though I didn't list it. I know the DePaul season hasn't been 'ideal', but I still think they're capable of beating anyone in this conference if they play to their potential on any given night.

 

Are you gonna be at that February (13th? 14th? It's a Wednesday game, I know that) game?

 

Nope, I won't. Can't really make it to weekday games nor do I want to witness the potential garbage play in person. The team is too maddening to watch.

 

 

DePaul turns a 21 point 2nd half lead into a mere 3 points at the 1 minute mark of the game, but holds off UConn 66-58 behind 26 points from, of all people, Draelon Burns.

 

We were beyond awful to start off the game, only scoring about 10 points in about the first 13 minutes...luckily uconn is really, really down this year...came out very strong in the 2nd half and almost gave it away, of course, at the end...

 

burns can score. Averaged in double figures last year. We could use more of that with sammy deciding to take conference play off and not show up much this season.

[knightni]

I don't get it.

 

Good wins vs Top 25 teams in Alabama, Maryland, and West Virginia.

 

Solid wins vs tough conference teams in Syracuse, Villanova, and Louisville.

 

Three of four losses vs quality opponents...

 

Top 20 in coaches and media poll...

 

Yet N.D. is only a 7 seed in that bracket.

 

Negatively biased perhaps?

[ZoomSlowik]

DePaul turns a 21 point 2nd half lead into a mere 3 points at the 1 minute mark of the game, but holds off UConn 66-58 behind 26 points from, of all people, Draelon Burns.

 

Both teams looked incredibly awful for around 30 minutes. DePaul figured things out a bit right before the end of the half and for roughly the first ten minutes of the second half, while UConn dominated the last 10. UConn looked particularly awful. Their big men couldn't catch, they had no shooters, and they didn't really have any ball-handling until Price came in in the second half (not really sure why he didn't start or even play in the 1st half, he's clearly their only decent ball-handler). Honestly, they didn't really look any worse than the guys in the mascot pickup game at halftime.

 

I don't get it.

 

Good wins vs Top 25 teams in Alabama, Maryland, and West Virginia.

 

Solid wins vs tough conference teams in Syracuse, Villanova, and Louisville.

 

Three of four losses vs quality opponents...

 

Top 20 in coaches and media poll...

 

Yet N.D. is only a 7 seed in that bracket.

 

Negatively biased perhaps?

 

3 of those teams have been much worse than expected (those being Bama, Cuse, and Maryland), and the other 3 haven't really cemented themselves as tourney teams yet either. They'll probably move up in the next one though...

[CWSGuy406]

Stanford/Gonzaga going to double OT after a Stanford player buried a three with about 16 seconds left to tie it up...

[Rowand44]

I don't get it.

 

Good wins vs Top 25 teams in Alabama, Maryland, and West Virginia.

 

Solid wins vs tough conference teams in Syracuse, Villanova, and Louisville.

 

Three of four losses vs quality opponents...

 

Top 20 in coaches and media poll...

 

Yet N.D. is only a 7 seed in that bracket.

 

Negatively biased perhaps?

You listed a lot of wins against bubble teams. Don't forget that most of those W's came with McAlarney, still got to see how that whole situation works out. As far as polls, they mean absolutely nothing to the selection committee, they're useless.

[Rowand44]

Zags about to knock of Stanford, really surprised to see this.

[RockRaines]

Let me make it clear again: Kevin Durant is THE #1 pick in this draft. Greg Oden is going to be really good, but a combo of McGrady and Garnett doesn't come along too often. 38 and 23, on the road, against a red hot Texas Tech team, as a true frosh, at 6'10. WTF.

There shouldnt be any doubt by now. Even with him being somewhat raw in some areas, the guy flat out is dominant. I think Oden is staying anyway, but I would still draft Durant #1

[thedoctor]

There shouldnt be any doubt by now. Even with him being somewhat raw in some areas, the guy flat out is dominant. I think Oden is staying anyway, but I would still draft Durant #1

 

i'd still take oden.

[RockRaines]

i'd still take oden.

I dont think he will be avilable, but i would take Durant right now. Oden is good, but needs dev and needs it at the college level. Of course Thad's gameplanning has alot to do with it, and being triple teamed every time the ball gets near him hurts as well.

[danman31]

I'm taking the 7 footer that is the best defender college basketball has seen in a long time any day of the week.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Eric Gordon on ESPN2 tonight against Loyola.

[aboz56]

Oden is going pro, why does anyone actually think he's staying? If he blows out his knee he'll lose $100 mil easily, if not more. To come back would simply be one of the dumbest moves I can think of, regardless of how much he says he loves college.

 

On another note, I've been reading some IU forums and it seems like a lot of the older fans are pissed that the students rushed the floor after beating Wisconsin.

 

So I'd like to say my piece on this. First off, we're talking about 18-22 year old kids, most of whom have had to watch IU play like crap for the last six years under Mike Davis. To say that we shouldn't rush the court and that we should act like we've been there before is ridiculous. Maybe the alums and the older folks have been there before, these students have not. For them, this is by far the biggest win IU has had in their time at the university. That alone to me is justification to rush the floor. They are college kids, having fun, experiencing something they will never forget. Then you factor in that Wisconsin is the #2 team in the country and had a 17 game winning streak and that just adds more incentive to rush the floor. As much as I love IU, some of the older Knight apologists just don't get it. Being in college is about having fun, it's a once in the lifetime experience. Who are these jackasses to critique what college students can and cannot do at a basketball game? I think what happened last night is perfectly acceptable given the circumstances and some of the "old guard" IU fans need to realize what the program has been through the last couple of years and people are excited to see it climb once again. In no way does rushing the floor "cheapen" the win.

 

Also, to Doug Gottlieb, maybe the biggest f***ing tool on ESPN. This son of a b**** got kicked out of Notre Dame for stealing credit cards and was basically a nobody for Oklahoma State. He has the gall to get on ESPN last night and say that IU fans rushing the floor was the most atrocious thing he has seen in years. No Doug, the most atrocious thing I've seen is ESPN giving your worthless ass a job. Get a life, you f***ing jag.

[ZoomSlowik]

Oden is going pro, why does anyone actually think he's staying? If he blows out his knee he'll lose $100 mil easily, if not more. To come back would simply be one of the dumbest moves I can think of, regardless of how much he says loves college.

 

It'd be REALLY hard for Oden to totally kill his draft stock. Even with the wrist injury, he would have been the #1 pick last year, and the same is probably true for anything short of a career ender, for which he could get a substantial insurance policy. If running backs and DB's can tear their ACL or break a leg and still go in the first round in the NFL draft, Oden shouldn't really have a problem, especially since he's A LOT more talented and well regarded relative to guys like McGahee, Cromartie, Jason Allen and Michael Bush in the NFL. The only real difference is that it would push back his time-table a bit, and he could be leaving money on the table, though he would still be pretty wealthy.

Edited February 1, 2007 by ZoomSlowik

[Soxbadger]

I agree that the risk for Oden is not that high.

 

But some of the guys you mentioned did severely impact how much money they were paid. McGahee went from potentially top 10 pick, to late first round. Cromartie left the first year he was eligible, had he stayed this year and then left this draft he most likely would have been one of the top cb's on the board.

 

A guy like Lee Evans is the best comparison. He stayed after 2001 tore his ACL in 2002, therefore had to stay in 2003 as well, and then finally went to the draft. Its hard to project where he would have gone but his 2001 stats were significantly better than his 2003 and there was no injury history also.

 

Its just very hard to leave 100mil (salary, bonus, endorsements) on the table for college basketball.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Soxbadger

[ZoomSlowik]

I agree that the risk for Oden is not that high.

 

But some of the guys you mentioned did severely impact how much money they were paid. McGahee went from potentially top 10 pick, to late first round. Cromartie left the first year he was eligible, had he stayed this year and then left this draft he most likely would have been one of the top cb's on the board.

 

A guy like Lee Evans is the best comparison. He stayed after 2001 tore his ACL in 2002, therefore had to stay in 2003 as well, and then finally went to the draft. Its hard to project where he would have gone but his 2001 stats were significantly better than his 2003 and there was no injury history also.

 

Its just very hard to leave 100mil (salary, bonus, endorsements) on the table for college basketball.

 

That is true, but they haven't totally lost all of their NFL-related income (though obviously there are lesser-regarded players that did). Evans just lost a couple of years on the end, and the other guys I mentioned lost some money on their rookie contracts (realistically, I don't think Allen really lost anything, that was probably about as high as he could go).

 

Plus I was merely using that as an example, the rate of serious injury like that in basketball isn't as high, and even for major surgeries like ACL's and micro-fracture surgery guys can still come back and play at a fairly high level unless it is really serious or multiple surgeries are involved (ie Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill or Antonio McDyess, and those guys still aren't exactly broke).

 

Realistically for Oden barring a truly catastrophic injury he'll still make well into 8 figures regardless, and if that isn't enough for you to live comfortably you truly are an idiot.

[Soxbadger]

But why take the risk?

 

Even if the risk is .01%, why take it?

 

You are not talking about financial security here, this is about so much wealth that his childrens children will probably never have to worry about money if he does not spend it foolishly.

 

Playing 1 more year is just not worth the risk. Unless your parents are Bill Gates, etc and the money does not mean anything anyways.

 

Otherwise its time to move from being a big fish in a medium pond, to big fish in big pond.