Terrorist aiding Anti-War activist gets off easy.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/16/terror.trial.ap/index.html

 

What a shame. Here we have someone who spent her life doing everything in her power to free cop-killers, black panthers, and anarchists caps off her career by aiding terrorists and some soft ass judge gives her a tenth of the sentence she should have recieved. This scum should have been locked in a 4x8 cell for the rest of her natural life with photos of the victims of those she aided embedded in the walls.

[Texsox]

Nuke,

Who should lawyers defend?

[Balta1701]

Nuke,

Who should lawyers defend?

Only the really innocent. Those who the President deems "Non-terrorists".

 

Anyway, if this person did what she's accused of doing...then yeah she crossed the line. By a lot.

[Texsox]

Only the really innocent. Those who the President deems "Non-terrorists".

 

Anyway, if this person did what she's accused of doing...then yeah she crossed the line. By a lot.

 

I was ore addressing this line

What a shame. Here we have someone who spent her life doing everything in her power to free cop-killers, black panthers, and anarchists

[NorthSideSox72]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/16/terror.trial.ap/index.html

 

What a shame. Here we have someone who spent her life doing everything in her power to free cop-killers, black panthers, and anarchists caps off her career by aiding terrorists and some soft ass judge gives her a tenth of the sentence she should have recieved. This scum should have been locked in a 4x8 cell for the rest of her natural life with photos of the victims of those she aided embedded in the walls.

Lumping in public defenders and other defense attornies with someone convicted of aiding a terrorist is assinine. Please rejoin us in reality.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Lumping in public defenders and other defense attornies with someone convicted of aiding a terrorist is assinine. Please rejoin us in reality.

 

 

What are you talking about? Who said anything about public defenders and other defense attorneys?

 

I dont need words put in my mouth thanks.

[NorthSideSox72]

What are you talking about? Who said anything about public defenders and other defense attorneys?

 

I dont need words put in my mouth thanks.

YOU did. YOU talk about people who defend cop-killers and Black Panthers as being somehow evil. I disagree. I personally think that defending those people, and yes, even terrorists, is a thankless and noble job.

 

The problem isn't who she defended. Its that she broke the law doing it.

[Rex Kickass]

The judge said in her sentencing, that it was taking into account her breast cancer, her history as a public defender, and the fact that there was no apparent actual damage done IIRC.

[Jenksismyhero]

I don't think there's a problem DEFENDING these scumbags that she works for, however AIDING them in their activities is quite different.

 

I agree with Nuke that she should have gotten a harsher (more harsh?) punishment. I don't care if she dies tomorrow, part of punishment is to set examples and deter future crime. This punishment does neither.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't think there's a problem DEFENDING these scumbags that she works for, however AIDING them in their activities is quite different.

That difference is exactly what I was referring to. Its an important distinction that was being glossed over.

[Texsox]

She gets off easy, maybe she's the perfect woman for nuke . . .

[Steff]

That difference is exactly what I was referring to. Its an important distinction that was being glossed over.

 

 

 

It does appear he was being specific to this female and this situation, no?

[NorthSideSox72]

It does appear he was being specific to this female and this situation, no?

No.

 

Saying this particular person deserves what she got or worse makes sense, and I agree. What bothers me is the connotation that, as he stated, defending cop killers and black panthers is of the same ilk that aiding terrorists is. It goes with the thought he put forth in the other thread, about how evil lawyers are. And that all points to a general theme - that lawyers and the legal system are somehow "the problem". Its ridiculous.

 

I am tired, more than anything, of the sweeping generalizations. This defense lawyer does something slimy... and people rip the profession. Foley turns out to be a scumbag (well, beyond just being a Congressman)... it must be a GOP thing. Its all crap, and to me, its just a small step from bigotry. They are rooted in the same problem - intellectual laziness. I don't feel like dealing with the complexities of human nature, so I'll just lump everyone into a category and s*** on it.

 

That is why I called out this post. Its not just Nuke.

 

/rant. Sorry.

Edited October 17, 2006 by NorthSideSox72

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

No.

 

Saying this particular person deserves what she got or worse makes sense, and I agree. What bothers me is the connotation that, as he stated, defending cop killers and black panthers is of the same ilk that aiding terrorists is. It goes with the thought he put forth in the other thread, about how evil lawyers are. And that all points to a general theme - that lawyers and the legal system are somehow "the problem". Its ridiculous.

 

I am tired, more than anything, of the sweeping generalizations. This defense lawyer does something slimy... and people rip the profession. Foley turns out to be a scumbag (well, beyond just being a Congressman)... it must be a GOP thing. Its all crap, and to me, its just a small step from bigotry. They are rooted in the same problem - intellectual laziness. I don't feel like dealing with the complexities of human nature, so I'll just lump everyone into a category and s*** on it.

 

That is why I called out this post. Its not just Nuke.

 

/rant. Sorry.

 

 

Lawyers are A problem but the system with its gaping holes that said lawyers can exploit to free obviously guilty criminals and helps social parasites cash in big time because of their own poor choices and dearth of common sense is the problem. Correcting the flaws of our legal system is something that money hungry lawyers have and always will fight because it is those same flaws that enrich them and give them power.

 

There's nothing "noble" about freeing a rapist or a killer because of some petty procedural error and there's nothing "noble" about filing lawsuit after lawsuit and attempting to see what sticks and how much money they can squeeze out of a defendant for some frivolus reason.

 

If all that wasn't enough. Lawyers have created a climate of fear in this nation. Fear of being sued that is. Need proof? In one Mass town they wont even let kids play tag at recess for fear of.....thunderstorms?.....traffic?......bullies prowling for lunch money?........no.......lawsuits.

 

http://cbs4boston.com/local/local_story_290105157.html

 

That story is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

They are a huge factor in the death of personal responsibility in this nation also as they give social parasites an avenue to try to get paid for their own bad choices.

 

Also if you want to change GOP in your point about Foley to Congress then you are spot on. Congressmen are a special breed of vermin all their own but that's another rant for another post.

 

You want to accuse me of intellectual laziness? I suppose if calling a spade a spade and being of the belief that not every question has a complex answer makes me guilty of "intellectual laziness" then so be it. I'll wear it as a badge of honor.

Edited October 18, 2006 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[NorthSideSox72]

Lawyers are A problem but the system with its gaping holes that said lawyers can exploit to free obviously guilty criminals and helps social parasites cash in big time because of their own poor choices and dearth of common sense is the problem. Correcting the flaws of our legal system is something that money hungry lawyers have and always will fight because it is those same flaws that enrich them and give them power.

 

There's nothing "noble" about freeing a rapist or a killer because of some petty procedural error and there's nothing "noble" about filing lawsuit after lawsuit and attempting to see what sticks and how much money they can squeeze out of a defendant for some frivolus reason.

 

If all that wasn't enough. Lawyers have created a climate of fear in this nation. Fear of being sued that is. Need proof? In one Mass town they wont even let kids play tag at recess for fear of.....thunderstorms?.....traffic?......bullies prowling for lunch money?........no.......lawsuits.

 

http://cbs4boston.com/local/local_story_290105157.html

 

That story is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

They are a huge factor in the death of personal responsibility in this nation also as they give social parasites an avenue to try to get paid for their own bad choices.

 

Also if you want to change GOP in your point about Foley to Congress then you are spot on. Congressmen are a special breed of vermin all their own but that's another rant for another post.

 

You want to accuse me of intellectual laziness? I suppose if calling a spade a spade and being of the belief that not every question has a complex answer makes me guilty of "intellectual laziness" then so be it. I'll wear it as a badge of honor.

 

What's funny is, I agree with what I think are some of your root points here... the death of common sense, a society in fear of each other in part because of frivilous law suits, a lack of personal responsibility, etc. I just think the blame falls on the people who choose to sue, and further, the judges who allow such things to go on (see my earlier point about jury trials).

 

If civil trials were screened for such nonsense, and the legal hurdle for even bringing a civil suit to court was higher, then the problem would be solved. You don't see this kind of nonsense in Europe, in part because the courts don't allow it. Remember the infamous $3M coffee spill from a US McDonald's? An almost identical case was brought in the UK, and dismissed outright.

 

And I do think its noble to defend the least likeable of people. The adversarial system doesn't work without those people, and their importance is as great as anyone else in the system.

 

About the intellectual laziness... I was talking specifically about the tendency all of us have at least occasionally to dismiss difficult situations by trying to write off part of the equation via inaccurate categorization. And I think, as that tends to happen more and more, the road leads to a lot of hatred and anger. So I try to fight against it. Sorry if I came off preachy or harsh. But if that's what I am, and I am doing it for the things I believe are right, then I will wear that as a badge of honor.

[Jenksismyhero]

There's nothing "noble" about freeing a rapist or a killer because of some petty procedural error and there's nothing "noble" about filing lawsuit after lawsuit and attempting to see what sticks and how much money they can squeeze out of a defendant for some frivolus reason.

 

Except that there are the rare occasions in which an innocent person is charged for a crime they didn't commit and without said lawyer that person would be thrown in jail for something he/she didn't do. There is a process we call justice and even though we think everyone is guilty as soon as the cops arrest them, they're not.

 

Also, stop watching Law and Order. It's very, very rare for a case to be thrown out on a procedural error. Mistakes happen and certain trial strategies may be affected by the negligence of the prosecution, but there are still mechanisms in place to convict the guy if he's guilty. As for the frivilous lawsuits, ethical lawyers know not to bring those types of cases to the courts, and ethical judges know they shouldn't hear them. Also keep in mind most of the time jury's come up with the reward amount.

 

You're a perfect example for the point NorthSideSox brought up about overgeneralizing/categorizing people. Being a year away from becoming a lawyer, I find your rant not only wrong but also worthless. Everyone is self-interested and everyone wants to make money. Every business, regardless of industry, exists to make a profit through all legal means. It's ridiculous to criticize lawyers for getting everything they can for their clients when the rest of the country functions the same way.

 

If all that wasn't enough. Lawyers have created a climate of fear in this nation. Fear of being sued that is. Need proof? In one Mass town they wont even let kids play tag at recess for fear of.....thunderstorms?.....traffic?......bullies prowling for lunch money?........no.......lawsuits.

 

Again, try attending a real trial or talking to real attorneys and stop relying on Law and Order to teach you the reality of our legal system. Should there be some tort reform? Yeah, I would agree something should be done (a cap on punitive damages for one). But you have to really look at the whole picture first. Yeah it might be sad that we, as a society, have to fear lawsuits in situations where 50 years ago we wouldn't have thought of doing such a thing. But that's probably .001% of lawsuits that are on the books right now. You only hear about them because they can sell some papers.

 

The flip-side is that these types of lawsuits have provided more safety and security for a ridiculously large and complex area of the law that has taken years to evolve and will continue to do so in the future. 75 years ago people had no idea that car manufacturers could be held liable for faulty brakes that resulted in a death or that landlords should ensure their buildings are safe, etc etc. You gotta take the good with the bad.

 

They are a huge factor in the death of personal responsibility in this nation also as they give social parasites an avenue to try to get paid for their own bad choices.

 

But they don't. Again, we're talking about an incredibly small number of cases that are filed and an even smaller amout of cases that make it to trial. Compound that with the years of waiting to get anything out of such a lawsuit. People abusing welfare are worse 'social parasites' than people who sue for a bad reason.

 

 

In my opinion you're only looking at the bad and refusing to see the good. With such logic I guess I should never invest in business because of people like Kenneth Lay or take part in government because of Mark Foley.