Juan Pierre to White Sox?

[Rowand44]

I just wish that somehow our team could actually focus on finding a leadoff hitter who actually fits with the makeup of the rest of the team.

 

We have a murderous 3-4-5 with a ton of power. We hit a sh*t load of home runs. Stealing bases in front of those type of guys does not have nearly as high of an impact on run production as simply being on base. It's not a bad thing if you're not thrown out a lot, but it's not going to be the end-all-be-all. If you could find me a LF/SS with an OBP somewhere above .350 or .360, I'd be very happy...and spend the rest of my money on pitching.

Well that's the thing, what pitching exactly are we going to spend the money on? Fixing the bullpen shouldn't cost that much money and there really isn't that much out there to improve the starters.

[NorthSideSox72]

I just wish that somehow our team could actually focus on finding a leadoff hitter who actually fits with the makeup of the rest of the team.

 

We have a murderous 3-4-5 with a ton of power. We hit a sh*t load of home runs. Stealing bases in front of those type of guys does not have nearly as high of an impact on run production as simply being on base. It's not a bad thing if you're not thrown out a lot, but it's not going to be the end-all-be-all. If you could find me a LF/SS with an OBP somewhere above .350 or .360, I'd be very happy...and spend the rest of my money on pitching.

How about a guy who had a BA/OBP of .327/.354 in 2006, can play LF as well as Pods did (not saying much), would cost about 500k and is already on the roster?

Edited October 17, 2006 by NorthSideSox72

[Kalapse]

How about a guy who had a BA/OBP of .327/.354 in 2006, can play LF as well as Pods did (not saying much), would cost about 500k and is already on the roster?

Is an upgrade defensively in LF really too much to ask? Why should we accept a guy like Gload in LF because he can play equal defense to the worst defensive LF in baseball? Just for once can't we have a guy in left who's capable of throwing the ball 30 feet in the air and perhaps catch a ball that's hit to him as opposed to letting it bounce off his face?

[Chisoxfn]

Exactly. If Kenny did give Oz what he wants,(Pierre) I would pray to God KW lays out the plan for Ozzie, that he is our LF, not the CF...

Say it again, our new LF, not CF...

Either way its a serious upgrade over Pods in LF or Mack in CF so count me in.

 

I just wish that somehow our team could actually focus on finding a leadoff hitter who actually fits with the makeup of the rest of the team.

 

We have a murderous 3-4-5 with a ton of power. We hit a sh*t load of home runs. Stealing bases in front of those type of guys does not have nearly as high of an impact on run production as simply being on base. It's not a bad thing if you're not thrown out a lot, but it's not going to be the end-all-be-all. If you could find me a LF/SS with an OBP somewhere above .350 or .360, I'd be very happy...and spend the rest of my money on pitching.

The problem is, when we weren't hitting HR's and against good pitching its harder to hit HR's, we were unable to manufacture any runs. With some speed we may lose a few bigger innings by running out of things, but we will have more capabilities to score in games where its hard to come by runs (ie the one's where we are going up against a top notch pitcher and aren't able to slam a few Hr's).

[NorthSideSox72]

Is an upgrade defensively in LF really too much to ask? Why should we accept a guy like Gload in LF because he can play equal defense to the worst defensive LF in baseball? Just for once can't we have a guy in left who's capable of throwing the ball 30 feet in the air and perhaps catch a ball that's hit to him as opposed to letting it bounce off his face?

Here is the thing. I'd love a guy who can play really good defense in LF and can bring the bat. But that isn't Pierre, or anyone else I have heard discussed. To me, Pierre is an upgrade defensively from awful to average at best. And offensively, I guess I don't see him as much of an upgrade either. Gload would be a wash defensively at worst (or, he may improve), and a large offensive upgrade. And he'll cost a sixth what Pierre will go for.

 

Putting Gload aside for the moment... who is on the market, or in our farm system, who is likely to be a significant upgrade both defensively and offensively that we can plug in there?

 

I just think that Pierre isn't worth it, value wise. I'd take him over Pods, mind you. But not my much. His OBP was identical to Pods, his SB% was a little better, and his D is better.

Edited October 17, 2006 by NorthSideSox72

[southsideirish71]

My worse case scenario is that we get Pierre in CF and Pods is back in LF due to Ozzie loving the slappy speedsters at the top.

 

Oh boy that OF wont throw anyone out.

[beautox]

Thank you. It's very, very simple. Our team is built around the HR. Some dont like, however I have no problem with it. No one seemed to complain last season, and Tiger fans dont see to have a problem with it this year. It obviously all comes down to pitching.

 

However, going back to the O, we are not a team built on speed, or "Smallball" It's a team of mashers, and your not going to change that. Build the team around the core. Our core hits HR's.

 

My good buddy RedandWhite is going to LOVEEEEEEE me. A perfect leadoff hitter for me would be a guy like Youkilis. That .381 OBP clip from last year would be perfect.

 

Youkilis is studly. But i'd rather the sox focus their attention on Melky Cabrea deal Cotts + Tracey to the Yankees for him, hes going to be a star provided he isn't put into a back up role next season. Cabrera is a 22yr old LFer, who's natural position is CF, hes got sterling defense and a good enough arm to make runners think twice about a hustle double or scoring from third on a bloop single to LF. Melky is a switch hitter who has great plate discipline and sprays the ball to all fields, his power is still developing, and hes got speed, he just hasn't quite mastered the art of stolen bases i could see him putting something like this up next year

.285+/.365/.400 12-15HR, 15-20SB/6-8CS.

Edited October 17, 2006 by beautox

[Rowand44]

My worse case scenario is that we get Pierre in CF and Pods is back in LF due to Ozzie loving the slappy speedsters at the top.

 

Oh boy that OF wont throw anyone out.

Ok, that's not even funny.

[Balta1701]

Ok, that's not even funny.

Then, think about what Ozzie would do when there's a lefty on the mound.

[Dick Allen]

Pierre gets to a lot of balls Pods would be tippy toeing to only to pick up when it stopped rolling. I wouldn't mind Pierre in LF, and he could ocassionally play CF against tough right handers. He was a better CF than I thought when I watched him this past season. He can't throw at all, but the White Sox had a couple of pretty successful years with Raines in LF and One Dog in CF, and both of them threw no better than Pierre. I think Pierre is almost a One Dog clone. Hopefully, if the Sox sign him, he won't fall off a cliff like the One Dog did after a huge season with the Mets.

[jackie hayes]

I think Pierre is almost a One Dog clone.

Overpaid by the Cubs and useless after? Not at all a bad comparison...

[alk3kevin]

Really? "garbage"

 

Nice.

yes, considering the salary he will garner, he is garbage. He does not take pitches, does not drive in runs, does not get on base. Like stated earlier, we need guys to get on base so our 3-4-5 can drive them in.

[Dick Allen]

Overpaid by the Cubs and useless after? Not at all a bad comparison...

The Cubs got the One Dog when he was about 35 years old. When he was 33 he had a spectacular year with the Mets. He hit .333 with 21 triples and 50 steals. Pierre is 29 or 30. I think he would do very well for the White Sox for a couple of years. Offensively, his drawback is that he rarely walks. He gets a lot of hits, he steals, he can handle the bat, and he's probably as fast as anyone in baseball. He also runs down the line, something very few White Sox do. He wouldn't be my first choice as an addition, I just don't think people would really be regretting the Sox signed him next July.

 

yes, considering the salary he will garner, he is garbage. He does not take pitches, does not drive in runs, does not get on base. Like stated earlier, we need guys to get on base so our 3-4-5 can drive them in.

Juan Pierre career OBP .350

Scott Podsednik OBP for 2005 WS champs .351.

 

People around here actually considered Pods an MVP candidate in 2005.

 

Pierre's inability to get on base is greatly exaggerated.

[witesoxfan]

I still say we satisfy both Ozzie and the offense's needs and get Roberts.

[alk3kevin]

The Cubs got the One Dog when he was about 35 years old. When he was 33 he had a spectacular year with the Mets. He hit .333 with 21 triples and 50 steals. Pierre is 29 or 30. I think he would do very well for the White Sox for a couple of years. Offensively, his drawback is that he rarely walks. He gets a lot of hits, he steals, he can handle the bat, and he's probably as fast as anyone in baseball. He also runs down the line, something very few White Sox do. He wouldn't be my first choice as an addition, I just don't think people would really be regretting the Sox signed him next July.

Juan Pierre career OBP .350

Scott Podsednik OBP for 2005 WS champs .351.

 

People around here actually considered Pods an MVP candidate in 2005.

 

Pierre's inability to get on base is greatly exaggerated.

Pierre's OBP is heavily driven by his BA. His walks have declined heavily the last four seasons, and his career IsoD is .47. There are cheaper options who could produce better than Pierre (Ryan Sweeney anyone?).

[GreatScott82]

Pierre is a safe move for LF. I would prefer Crawford, but if we aqcuire Pierre we wouldn't lose any players and hopefully have a 'real' leadoff hitter again like we had in 2005. As far as Anderson goes, he WILL be our CF next year.

[Kalapse]

People around here actually considered Pods an MVP candidate in 2005.

And those people are baseball retarded.

 

Pierre's OBP the past 3 seasons:

2004: .374

2005: .326

2006: .330

 

His inability to get on base is not exaggerated, it is a legitamite concern and way too many people overlook the fact that he can't take a pitch to save his life because he gets 200 hits a season. What is the real job of a leadoff man? 1.) Take pitches 2.) Get on base 3.) Score runs. Pierre doesn't do any of these things particularly well but he especially sucks at the first 2. Mix this with his lack of ability in the outfield, the fact that he's going to make decent money this offseason and him switching over the the superior American League and 2007-2010 could spell disaster in the leadoff spot for the Sox if Pierre is brought in here.

[BobDylan]

Gload would be a wash defensively at worst (or, he may improve), and a large offensive upgrade. And he'll cost a sixth what Pierre will go for.

 

Way to buy into the SoxTalk hype. There is no, NO way Ross Gload is a better defensive LFer than either Scott Podsednik or Juan Pierre. Ross is a solid firstbasement but the only reason he touches the outfield is because Ozzie Guillen likes to make people ask the question "why?".

[Balta1701]

Way to buy into the SoxTalk hype. There is no, NO way Ross Gload is a better defensive LFer than either Scott Podsednik or Juan Pierre. Ross is a solid firstbasement but the only reason he touches the outfield is because Ozzie Guillen likes to make people ask the question "why?".

There are many different things though that we should consider when thinking about who should wind up in LF next season.

 

Offense, Defense, throwing arm, money, speed on basepaths, intelligence on basepaths, how the player fits into the lineup, other intangibles, etc.

 

I would not be totally furious if it wound up being Gload if other problems were taken care of first (i.e. a leadoff hitting, not-facing-arrest SS).

[maggliopipe]

Youkilis is studly. But i'd rather the sox focus their attention on Melky Cabrea deal Cotts + Tracey to the Yankees for him, hes going to be a star provided he isn't put into a back up role next season. Cabrera is a 22yr old LFer, who's natural position is CF, hes got sterling defense and a good enough arm to make runners think twice about a hustle double or scoring from third on a bloop single to LF. Melky is a switch hitter who has great plate discipline and sprays the ball to all fields, his power is still developing, and hes got speed, he just hasn't quite mastered the art of stolen bases i could see him putting something like this up next year

.285+/.365/.400 12-15HR, 15-20SB/6-8CS.

 

This dude is a HUGE fan favorite in NY, and Torre loves what he brings to the table. I think NYY fans are sick of buying all their talent and they're craving some homegrown talent and Melky is exactly that. I'm not sure if we've seen enough of him to know that he's going to flourish at the MLB level, but yeah, he's impressed so far. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see them let Sheff walk and deal Matsui (or move him to DH) to have a Melky-Damon-Abreu outfield. A Cotts/Melky swap is an interesting idea, but I don't think they'd jump at it.

 

I keep coming back to a deal with Toronto. IF they're going to keep Wells (and hell if they're gonna deal him let's get our hat in that ring), then they've gotta deal either Catalanotto or Reed Johnson. I'd love to see either of those guys patrolling LF for us next season, especially Johnson.

[3E8]

And you're supposed to judge players based on their rookie season. Throw out April and May and BA hits .280-.290.

Try .251.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Oct 17, 2006 -> 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And you're supposed to judge players based on their rookie season. Throw out April and May and BA hits .280-.290.

 

That's right, I forgot the first half doesn't count. In that case, sign me up for Jeff Suppan winning the National League Cy Young. He was virtually unhittable in the second half.

[CWSGuy406]

Youkilis is studly. But i'd rather the sox focus their attention on Melky Cabrea deal Cotts + Tracey to the Yankees for him, hes going to be a star provided he isn't put into a back up role next season. Cabrera is a 22yr old LFer, who's natural position is CF, hes got sterling defense and a good enough arm to make runners think twice about a hustle double or scoring from third on a bloop single to LF. Melky is a switch hitter who has great plate discipline and sprays the ball to all fields, his power is still developing, and hes got speed, he just hasn't quite mastered the art of stolen bases i could see him putting something like this up next year

.285+/.365/.400 12-15HR, 15-20SB/6-8CS.

 

What's wrong with this?

 

hes going to be a star

 

Let's assume that's true, which I find quite funny considering his minor league OPS didn't even top .775.

 

We're getting a future "star" for Neal Cotts + Sean Tracey? Damn, man, you sure they don't want Paulino Reynoso and Corwin Malone? Or is that too much?

 

BTW, if Melky's defense is sterling, Ryan Sweeney must be God himself out there, because calling a guy "sterling" who's ZR was fifth to last out of all qualified LFers. Considering that TangoTiger's Fan Scouting Report had him a little bit better than average, I'd take a guess that he's probably around average in LF (maybe a little better or a little worse than average). So if sterling = average, then I guess you're right.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 17, 2006 -> 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My good buddy RedandWhite is going to LOVEEEEEEE me. A perfect leadoff hitter for me would be a guy like Youkilis. That .381 OBP clip from last year would be perfect.

 

First and foremost, the sarcasm is entirely apparent, nonetheless I think you're one of the worst posters on this board. We are not good buddies, nor do I value anything that you say.

 

With that being said. the White Sox add Youkilis and Buehrle is no longer in that rotation.

[RockRaines]

That's right, I forgot the first half doesn't count. In that case, sign me up for Jeff Suppan winning the National League Cy Young. He was virtually unhittable in the second half.

Funny, i didnt know Suppan was a rookie.