knightni Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Seattle always needs younger guys. Sweeney, BMAC, Vazquez. Too much pitching giving up? Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 QUOTE(knightni @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 12:14 PM) Seattle always needs younger guys. Sweeney, BMAC, Vazquez. Too much pitching giving up? Discuss. Way too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 Okay Mr. Signature Bet, what would you give up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(knightni @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 12:16 PM) Okay Mr. Signature Bet, what would you give up? To be honest, I just don't think we're a good fit with Seattle unless they'd want one of our veteran sp's and then a Josh Fields or a Sweeney or a Broadway. Trading Brandon is a no no, he's just too valuable to our club at this point. I'd absolutely love to trade for Ichiro, don't get me wrong, I just don't see us being a good match with the M's. Edited October 19, 2006 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BainesHOF Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 12:22 PM) To be honest, I just don't think we're a good fit with Seattle unless they'd want one of our veteran sp's and then a Josh Fields or a Sweeney or a Broadway. Trading Brandon is a no no, he's just too valuable to our club at this point. Yeah, McCarthy was so valuable that Ozzie barely pitched him in meaningful situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 QUOTE(BainesHOF @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 12:27 PM) Yeah, McCarthy was so valuable that Ozzie barely pitched him in meaningful situations. Ya well he's going to be starting this year and he's going to be one of our better starters(he'll be our 2nd or 3rd best starter next season) and he allows us to cut 8-10 mill in payroll. Like I said, he's way too valuable at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 So, Sweeney, Broadway, Tracey and Vazquez would work better? Seattle doesn't need a 3b with Beltre's huge contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I sure wouldn't trade Bmac. I'd give them Vazguez but not Brandon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 hes also a free agent in 2008. So you better be ready to give him a big deal. Real Big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Ichiro made $12,530,000 last year, and presumably he'll make something like that in 07. I'd love Ichiro, but here's the reality: add him and subtract McCarthy, and suddenly we're looking at a payroll approaching $115 million. This leaves almost zero room to resign Crede, Buehrle, Iguchi, or Dye, and if Fields and Sweeney are both gone, we'll need contracts for all 4 of those guys (since we'd suddenly have no one to play the non-Ichiro non-Anderson outfield spot after 2007). Unless we want to push $130 million on total salary, I just can't see how that works giving up McCarthy. We would almost have to trade one of our SP's in any sort of deal like that. Maybe 2 of them if Seattle would take them. Just to clear the salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alk3kevin Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Ichiro is simply not worth it. If we're going to throw those types of players around in a deal, we better get something back better than a 32 year old with a .786 OPS the last two seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 11:04 AM) Ichiro is simply not worth it. If we're going to throw those types of players around in a deal, we better get something back better than a 32 year old with a .786 OPS the last two seasons. So, as many will probably point out, for a guy leading off, there are many, many more important stats than OPS. OBP is very useful, and while it comes largely from his batting average, Ichiro boasted a nice .370 OBP last year. Compare to the .330 for Podsdenik. The 45/47 on Stolen Bases also looks very, very pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 12:28 PM) Ya well he's going to be starting this year and he's going to be one of our better starters(he'll be our 2nd or 3rd best starter next season) and he allows us to cut 8-10 mill in payroll. Like I said, he's way too valuable at this point. McCarthy will not be our 2nd or 3rd best starter next year. The purpose of leaving him in the bullpen this year, whether or not you agree with it is a different discussion, was to have him learn at the major league level without having him play an integral role. With the way the bullpen turned out the team needed to put him in important situation with mixed results. He still has a learning curve in the majors and I think he will be a good pitcher but not as son as next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 01:04 PM) Ichiro is simply not worth it. If we're going to throw those types of players around in a deal, we better get something back better than a 32 year old with a .786 OPS the last two seasons. HAHAHAHAHAHA, yes lets value a lead off man by his OPS. Welcome to baseball kid. Seattle is going to need pitching, they have none. Mark Buehrle would be a good trading chip for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 QUOTE(BainesHOF @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 12:27 PM) Yeah, McCarthy was so valuable that Ozzie barely pitched him in meaningful situations. There's baseball value, and there's financial value. McCarthy is too financially valuable to this club right now to trade him. If he puts up a 12-10 4.50 ERA 1.30 WHIP season next year, he'll have been the most productive starter for the Sox when comparing money to performance. McCarthy is pretty much all-around untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam G Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(knightni @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 12:30 PM) So, Sweeney, Broadway, Tracey and Vazquez would work better? Seattle doesn't need a 3b with Beltre's huge contract. Nothing would work. The Seattle Mariners would sooner close their doors and shut down than trade Ichiro. The guy is Asian, the team's ownership is Asian, and he sells a ton of tickets. Edited October 19, 2006 by Adam G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Ichiru is the Mariners organization. Even if they decide to rebuild they will keep him around. Kind of like how the Sox did in 97 and 98 they traded or didn't re-sign the veterans such as Belle, Ventura, Guillen, Baines etc..but the one guy they did keep through out the years was Frank Thomas. Ichiru draws fans to Seattle, he isn't going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alk3kevin Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 02:29 PM) HAHAHAHAHAHA, yes lets value a lead off man by his OPS. Welcome to baseball kid. Seattle is going to need pitching, they have none. Mark Buehrle would be a good trading chip for them. Well, you're vastly overrating a lead off man if you're willing to give up 2 good pitchers and a solid prospect. It doesn't matter if he leads off, a package like that should net BIG TIME talent. Couldn't we acquire a lead off man with a BETTER OBP for less? It seems sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Alright, can anyone give me a rumor, article, maybe something that says Seattle has their ears open for Ichiro? I find it hard to believe the Mariners know anyone is talking about Ichiro. QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 03:58 PM) Well, you're vastly overrating a lead off man if you're willing to give up 2 good pitchers and a solid prospect. It doesn't matter if he leads off, a package like that should net BIG TIME talent. Couldn't we acquire a lead off man with a BETTER OBP for less? It seems sensible. Ichiro is big time talent. But seriously, why don't you look up some trades that have happened around the league within the past few years. You'll be shocked to see what you see. For instance: The Twins traded A.J. Pierzynski to the Giants for Nathan, Lirano and Bonser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 QUOTE(BobDylan @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 02:47 PM) Alright, can anyone give me a rumor, article, maybe something that says Seattle has their ears open for Ichiro? I find it hard to believe the Mariners know anyone is talking about Ichiro. A weary Ichiro spent this final week of another grueling season answering his team's questions about his willingness to play center field. Now, the Mariners' leadoff man, his body aching and bruised from a sixth consecutive 200-hit campaign, has questions of his own. He has one year remaining on his Seattle contract and needs some assurances when it comes to signing any extension beyond that. When he told manager Mike Hargrove this week that he'll move to center field permanently if needed, it was to give the club better flexibility going forward. But Ichiro, frustrated by recent losing seasons, doesn't want any sacrifices he makes for the Mariners to be in vain. "I think it's true for any player that they don't want to be on a losing team," Ichiro said Friday, speaking through a translator. "But even a winning team can't just win and not gain anything in the process. "So, the question is, whether you're a team that's winning or losing, are you gaining? Are you growing? And are you going forward with that?" These are some of the questions Ichiro hopes to start seeing answers to this winter. He has heard the talk, as have Seattle fans this week, about how his team has made progress despite another last-place finish. But there are key offseason holes to plug in the starting rotation and more power is needed for an offense that ranks near the bottom of the American League. Ichiro's pledge to shift from right field could help answer some questions by clearing room to import a corner outfield bat and supply some of that missing power. "It's certainly easier to add a player at the corners than it is a center fielder," Hargrove said Friday, cautioning that no decision on adding a hitter has been made. "Good center fielders are hard to find. And we're very fortunate that Ichiro will do it." Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi said this week that adding a bat is second on his priority list behind improving the team's pitching. There had been speculation that Ichiro, whose agent will meet with Mariners ownership in the offseason, would ask out of his Seattle contract early because of dissatisfaction over the team's progress. His decision to give the go-ahead to a position shift should quell some of those rumors by indicating he plans on being back in 2007. Ichiro's time in center this month — after manning it only sporadically since his arrival in the U.S. — has helped his comfort level. "If the team needs me to, then I can play center field," he said. "And that's my stance. If I couldn't play center field, then I wouldn't say that." Seattle Times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 QUOTE(ptatc @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 01:52 PM) McCarthy will not be our 2nd or 3rd best starter next year. I bet he will. I'm also one who usually expects youngsters to struggle early on but I think Brandon is very special(time number 3423432432 I've said that) and I expect him to be very good in 07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 05:16 PM) I bet he will. I'm also one who usually expects youngsters to struggle early on but I think Brandon is very special(time number 3423432432 I've said that) and I expect him to be very good in 07. Every time I watch him pitch I think the same thing. The kid just has such damn good stuff. My only real concern with Brandon is whether or not his body can hold up for 200+ innings every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 07:16 PM) I bet he will. I'm also one who usually expects youngsters to struggle early on but I think Brandon is very special(time number 3423432432 I've said that) and I expect him to be very good in 07. It's a bet. Again, nothing against him but I think with the quality of our pitchers and his inexperience, I think he will be at the end of the rotation. Edited October 20, 2006 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Is there any serious talk of us getting Ichiro? I love that guy. He's being wasted in Seattle. How bout Brandon and Fields for Ichiro? I mean this is Ichiro?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 QUOTE(greg775 @ Oct 19, 2006 -> 09:13 PM) Is there any serious talk of us getting Ichiro? I love that guy. He's being wasted in Seattle. How bout Brandon and Fields for Ichiro? I mean this is Ichiro?? If there's one guy I won't trade for Ichiro, it's McCarthy. If you trade him for Ichiro, the payroll is up around $115 with no room to do anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.