Steff Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 09:52 AM) If the Yankees are not responsible for 100% of the contract then why are the Rangers sending the money to the Yankees? Wouldn't they be sending it directly to Alex? If the Yankees were 100% responsible they wouldn't be getting ANYTHING from the Rangers. I don't work for MLB so I have no idea why they are not sending it directly to him. But the fact is that they ARE responsible for compensating him via the Yankees. As a matter of fact.. you agree to it! QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 09:30 AM) They are receiving payments from the Rangers to compensate tem in part for that contract. Agree? QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 09:45 AM) Texas is responsible to the Yankees for those payments. The Yankees are responsible to pay Alex. The next team will be responsible to pay Alex. Rangers send money to Yankees >> Yankees send money to new team. The amounts can be different. That is all I have said. How is that so hard to understand? Because by all accounts the amount coming from the Rangers, which is what was SPECIFICALLY being questioned earlier in this thread, will NOT change. I suppose now it will become some other amount you were referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Can they not renegotiate the deal(s)? I know that it's frowned upon, and probably will take 700 lawyers, but I bet that behind the scenes this is what would have to happen... because the rumors have been out there for years that when a said player goes to a third team, funny things start happening to these "agreements". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 The trade was for two players and cash. The Yankees took over responsibility for ARods contract in consideration of receiving those players and the cash. You are trading not only the player's talents but the contracts. Once the trade was finished, both sides assume the contracts for the players involved. Cash has been included in trades all the time. As I have stated over and over again, no matter what happens to ARod, the Rangers are responsible to make those payments to the Yankees. If, for example, ARod sufferes a career ending injury and an insurance company pays off, the Rangers still have to honor their end of the trade which was to send money and players to the Yankees. If the Yankees trade ARod, they are free to set any terms that can be agreed upon. That will probably involve cash. But the receiving team will still hold Alex's contract. He won't have three different contracts. One with the Rangers, one with the Yankees, and one with the new team. Again, and as plainly as possible. The Yankees are free to send as much or as little cash with ARod in a trade but they will continue to receive payments from the Rangers to complete the trade that was made a couple season's ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Players get traded all the time with the teams trading them agreeing to pick up part of the contract. They don't actually send a check to the player, they pay the team they trade with. Maybe ARod is a different circumstance and maybe the Rangers still pay him, but it appears they pay the Yankees. ARod is guaranteed his full salary, whether or not the money the Rangers are passing along to the Yankees is legally supposed to move with ARod if he is dealt, can't be determined by these articles. Either way, if the Yankees don't move Texas' money with ARod, no team will assume his entire contract, so they wouldn't be able to trade him if that is their intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:19 AM) Players get traded all the time with the teams trading them agreeing to pick up part of the contract. They don't actually send a check to the player, they pay the team they trade with. Maybe ARod is a different circumstance and maybe the Rangers still pay him, but it appears they pay the Yankees. ARod is guaranteed his full salary, whether or not the money the Rangers are passing along to the Yankees is legally supposed to move with ARod if he is dealt, can't be determined by these articles. Either way, if the Yankees don't move Texas' money with ARod, no team will assume his entire contract, so they wouldn't be able to trade him if that is their intention. Exactly, they will have to send cash to get the deal done. The amount is negotaible. It could be more or less than what is left owed by the Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:25 AM) Exactly, they will have to send cash to get the deal done. The amount is negotaible. It could be more or less than what is left owed by the Rangers. That is not at all what he is saying. And why do you keep insisting the Rangers have something to do with anything over the funds they agreed to pay...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:30 AM) That is not at all what he is saying. And why do you keep insisting the Rangers have something to do with anything over the funds they agreed to pay...? The Rangers have no say except to write the check to the Yankees. You keep claiming the Ranger check follows ARod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Whatever trade may occur involving A-Rod, the other team will inevitably stipulate in the trade contract what happens to that cash, one way or the other. No lawyer worth their salt would leave that to chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:40 AM) The Rangers have no say except to write the check to the Yankees. You keep claiming the Ranger check follows ARod. The Rangers agreed to pay $67 million dollars of his contract. I think to almost all of us that means that they will pay $67 million of the contract no matter who the middle man is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 01:13 AM) There's no debating that A-Rod was a good defensive SS in the past. He was even a fine defensive 3B initially. However, he's added body mass, specifically to his legs, and his defensive range has declined dramatically. (Plus he got a case of the yips this year) I'm not so sure that he would return to be even a league average defensive shortstop if moved there in '07. I think any conversation regarding Rodriguez returning to short has to question the defense that he'll bring to the position on a team that has only one starter with an above average strikeout rate, or a strikeout rate that's not trending downward. Uribe is not exactly a Slim Jim-and probably has more body mass than A Rod right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:41 AM) Whatever trade may occur involving A-Rod, the other team will inevitably stipulate in the trade contract what happens to that cash, one way or the other. No lawyer worth their salt would leave that to chance. The next team will undoubtedly be getting cash from the Yankees (not Rangers). Do you think the language would be, Team 3 receives $29 million from the Yankees or Team 3 receives $3 million from the Yankees and the Ranger's check? I don't think the third team would give a crap about what the Yankee/Ranger deal is. They want the best deal they can negotiate from themselves. The third team may or may not like the terms that the Rangers/Yankees agreed on as far as deferments, etc. If the Yankees would like to mirror that, they of course are free to try. I believe the third team is free to request money faster, differed at a different interest rate, etc. If the Yankees are locked in to the next team taking exactly what the Rangers are paying and how, it will make it even harder to move ARod. I don't see why in negotiating the original trade that brought ARod to the Yankees, that the Rangers would care who they sent the money to and I don't see the Yankees wanting to be restricted in having to give up that exact amount if they traded him. ARod wouldn't care where the money is coming from to pay him his unworldly salary. So who would have insisted that the Rangers send the check to whomever Alex is playing for or that any future trades must involve that exact amount of compensation to the next team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Kitty has been busy this morning.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:45 AM) The Rangers agreed to pay $67 million dollars of his contract. I think to almost all of us that means that they will pay $67 million of the contract no matter who the middle man is. You've been saying they will pay whomever Alex is playing for. I've been saying the Rangers will pay the team they made the trade with, the Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:54 AM) The next team will undoubtedly be getting cash from the Yankees (not Rangers). Do you think the language would be, Team 3 receives $29 million from the Yankees or Team 3 receives $3 million from the Yankees and the Ranger's check? I don't think the third team would give a crap about what the Yankee/Ranger deal is. They want the best deal they can negotiate from themselves. The third team may or may not like the terms that the Rangers/Yankees agreed on as far as deferments, etc. If the Yankees would like to mirror that, they of course are free to try. I believe the third team is free to request money faster, differed at a different interest rate, etc. If the Yankees are locked in to the next team taking exactly what the Rangers are paying and how, it will make it even harder to move ARod. I don't see why in negotiating the original trade that brought ARod to the Yankees, that the Rangers would care who they sent the money to and I don't see the Yankees wanting to be restricted in having to give up that exact amount if they traded him. ARod wouldn't care where the money is coming from to pay him his unworldly salary. So who would have insisted that the Rangers send the check to whomever Alex is playing for or that any future trades must involve that exact amount of compensation to the next team? You've made this waaaaaaaaaay more complicated than what I meant. I just mean that the trade contract between the Yankees and the team A-Rod is going to will, no doubt, specify how much cash will or will not move between those two teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:04 AM) Kitty has been busy this morning.. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:06 AM) You've made this waaaaaaaaaay more complicated than what I meant. I just mean that the trade contract between the Yankees and the team A-Rod is going to will, no doubt, specify how much cash will or will not move between those two teams. Exactly. And it can be more or less than what the Rangers are already paying the Yankees. Agreed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:09 AM) Can they not renegotiate the deal(s)? I know that it's frowned upon, and probably will take 700 lawyers, but I bet that behind the scenes this is what would have to happen... because the rumors have been out there for years that when a said player goes to a third team, funny things start happening to these "agreements". The MLB players union will not allow a deal where any player accepts less money for any reason. Arod originally wanted to do something that would have lessened the total dollar compensation, and the players union wouldn't allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:05 AM) You've been saying they will pay whomever Alex is playing for. I've been saying the Rangers will pay the team they made the trade with, the Yankees. Ahh yes. That makes total sense. The Rangers will continue to pay the Yankees regardless of where Alex is playing. :wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Steff, Why would the Rangers and Yankees agree to a deal where if ARod is traded, the exact amount that is remaining, has to go to the third team? It doesn't benefit anyone in the negotiations. The Rangers don't care anymore, they agreed to pay the money. The Yankees don't want to be restricted in any future deal ARod just wants to be paid. QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:11 AM) Ahh yes. That makes total sense. The Rangers will continue to pay the Yankees regardless of where Alex is playing. :wall It makes sense that they honor the trade. Even better, since they agreed to pay the Yankees towards ARod's contract, maybe they can get out of paying anything. Maybe they can get the player back as well. If Alex suffers a career ender, retires early, or similar, are the Rangers off the hook? According to your example of him not playing for the Yankees they would be. If the Yankees can negoatiate less cash in the next deal, will the Rangers get a refund? Steff, keep trying. The deal sends cash to the Yankees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 (edited) Really, whether or not the money follows ARod to the next team from Texas does not matter. Think about the 2 different scenarios. 1. The money follows ARod from Texas New York then says "Hey you are getting the money from Texas. We do not think that you should get all of that money. We want $3 million." ARod's new team gets the $67 million from Texas (or whatever), but they pay $3 million to the Yankees. In the end, the new team gets $64 million to pay for the contract. 2. New York always gets the money from Texas. New York says, "Hey we will pass on $64 million to help pay for ARod's contract. We will not give you the full $67 million." In the end, the new team gets $64 million to pay for the contract. It ends up the same way in both cases, with New York negotiating money and getting $3 million of the ARod money. Edited October 25, 2006 by vandy125 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:15 AM) Steff, Why would the Rangers and Yankees agree to a deal where if ARod is traded, the exact amount that is remaining, has to go to the third team? It doesn't benefit anyone in the negotiations. The Rangers don't care anymore, they agreed to pay the money. The Yankees don't want to be restricted in any future deal ARod just wants to be paid. The Yankees and Rangers don't have anything more to agree on. Why do you keep saying they do? The deal for the $67 million was done. There is approx $22 million of that $67 million left to go. If ARod moves, the $22 million goes with him. Why on earth would the Rangers CONTINUE to pay the Yankees money that they agreed to compensate Alex for..? Yes, Alex will get paid regardless. And a TOTAL of $67 million of his pay will come from the Texas Rangers. It doesn't restrict the Yankees. It has nothing to do with the Yankees. QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:18 AM) It makes sense that they honor the trade. It makes sense that the Rangers continue to pay the Yankees funds to compensate a contract for a player that no longer plays there. I wouldn't be laughing about making that claim if you are indeed serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 It may be earlier in the thread, but ESPN.com has a story that is saying Boras talked to Cashman and they're both saying he's staying... take it for what it is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:18 AM) Steff, keep trying. You too. As I said, I'm sticking with the facts. But here's something for you to carry your theories in.. Bag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Seeing as I'm very lazy, can someone once again tell me if there's actually a chance this happens? Or is it just speculation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:18 AM) If Alex suffers a career ender, retires early, or similar, are the Rangers off the hook? According to your example of him not playing for the Yankees they would be. If the Yankees can negoatiate less cash in the next deal, will the Rangers get a refund? The deal sends cash to the Yankees. I don't know the details of his contract, but I do know that Belle's was guaranteed and when he was forced to retire insurance paid part, and the Orioles paid part. No refund. He was paid in full. I would guess that ARod's contract is guaranteed as well. If it's not, then Boras is an idiot. Yes, the deal sends cash to the Yankees. To pay the portion of ARod's contract they agreed to pay. You keep saying it yet you are not comprehending it... "... ouch... ouch.. ouch... ouch....." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I just want to point out MLB is in the business of giving guaranteed contracts. Arod could not play another game because of injury yet he'd still get paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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