Mets looking to deal Milledge/Heilman?

[Flash Tizzle]

Pelfrey is close. Some argued that he was the best pitcher of the 2005 draft despite the fact that he went 9th (two pitchers went ahead of him). Jason raves about his stuff, too, as do any Mets fans who have a reasonable clue about their farm system.

 

I personally think that people even hoping for Pelfrey are nuts (myself included).

I know Williams has made a point to orchestrate trades which benefit both organizations. However, in this instance, we NEED to unload a starter upon whichever team is most willing to overpay. Receiving fair compensation for Garcia's value (when you factor decreased velocity and impending FA) should realistically give us, what, a Lance Broadway prospect in return? That is unacceptable.

 

A mid-low level SP prospect doesn't help us much. We already possess several of those. Realistically, to expect any net-gain in our favor, Williams needs a Pelfrey. He needs a reasonable package which noticeably improves our ballclub. Is it unreasonable? Yes, but if Minaya doesn't wish to abide by our demands, by all means he can throw his money at Zito or Schmidt. Hopefully both starting pitchers will be gone by then and he'll have no choice to negotiate with us.

 

Let's be honest, here -- this trade's probability only increases with the lingering injury concerns of Pedro. It's obvious his possible retirement really benefits our ballclub's chances. Any of you can act shocked, or suggest that "karma will come back," but it's true. He retires, Minaya is that much more desperate to fill out his starting rotation. You can't just let a lineup such as his linger in the New York media. And when he comes calling again, Williams has to remain firm. Either pay us what we want, or overpay for a player on the market.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Rowand44]

This is the beauty of having 6 above average starters in todays market. We're going to get someone to overpay it's just going to take some time and it's going to take a while for the market to sort itself out. I'd absolutely love a guy like Mike Pelfrey and I hope we can get him or a pitching prospect like him back in return.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Rowand44

[Balta1701]

I know Williams has made a point to orchestrate trades which benefit both organizations. However, in this instance, we NEED to unload a starter upon whichever team is most willing to overpay. Receiving fair compensation for Garcia's value (when you factor decreased velocity and impending FA) should realistically give us, what, a Lance Broadway prospect in return? That is unacceptable.

IMO, the value of a proven big league starter who helped pitch his team to a world series 2 years ago and who is signed for a very affordable price considering what other pitchers will go for this offseason is going to be worth significantly more than Broadway. It's simple numbers...teams have money to spend this offseason, but there are only 3 moderate level, innings-eating starting pitchers available on the FA Market, Zito, Schmidt, and Matsuzaka. Matz you have to pay the posting fee, Zito is a step or two above Garcia in consistency but has still been down the last few years and is going to make a ton more money, and Schmidt is both older and less consistently healthy than Garcia.

 

Someone is going to pay a lot more than a Broadway to get Garcia. Maybe the equivalent of a Broadway and a Sweeney, if not more. There are plenty of teams who think they have a good chance to win next year who have a boatload of reasons to make that sort of deal to try to turn 07 into their year, and almost all of them need starting pitching.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Balta1701

[Chisoxfn]

Love that Kenny is aiming high. Milledge and Pelfrey is probably unrealistic, but who cares? Sometimes GMs do dumb things, and with Pedro's hurt shoulder and the overall lack of good starting pitchers for the Mets, you never know.

 

I'd take a step down (although some people might consider Heilman>Humber) and ask for Heilman + Milledge. If need be, see if Cintron intrigues the Mets at all as a guy who could complete their 2nd-base platoon.

Pelfrey and Humber, not Milledge are the must have's in any deal with the Mets.

 

As long as young pitching is one of the items that comes back.

 

I can live with Haeger, Broadway, or some combination of those 2 and whoever we pick up in trades holding down the 5th starter spot if it leads to resigning Crede, Buehrle, Dye, Iguchi, adding in 2 young pitching prospects, and filling in our LF/SS/leadoff hitter holes.

 

But it only works if we add in more young pitching.

It is unacceptable to have Haeger or Broadway as our 5th starters on opening day. Thats not what potential world series champion teams do. I'd understand if we were talking about one of the premiere prospects in all of baseball, but now we'd have two rookies (McCarthy and one of that duo) in our rotation.

[CWSGuy406]

Pelfrey and Humber, not Milledge are the must have's in any deal with the Mets.

 

Humber would immediately become the Sox' best pitching prospect (quite obviously), but he left the AFL due to shoulder soreness. The injury troubles certainly have to be taken into consideration when talking about Humber.

 

Again, when talking about Pelfrey, that's a different beast. I'd trade Garcia and even throw in some cash to get Pelfrey with the Sox. He's arguably the best pitching prospect in all of baseball right now, and I'd advocate giving up a lot for him.

[Flash Tizzle]

Browsing several internet sites earlier and came upon a scenario I've been dreading.

 

http://www.gothambaseball.com/news/1162844521.php

 

Bye-Bye, Bonderman?

 

While everyone is convinced that the Yankees are the frontrunners for Japanese right-hander Daisuke Matsuzaka, and that the Mets and several other teams are mulling serious bids for his services, the sudden “availability” of Tigers right-hander Jeremy Bonderman is making many of those teams, including the Mets and Yankees, consider their options more carefully.

 

According to reports out of Motown, Detroit is mulling the pros and cons of dealing Bonderman, saying that the Tigers, who are seeking a first baseman with power, a young catcher to eventually succeed Pudge Rodriguez, and infield help in return for their talented hurler.

 

Our Northeast source said that “don’t be surprised if you hear that the Tigers are seriously considering Alex Rodriguez” instead.

 

One Bay Area official didn’t disagree, but also told Gotham Baseball Magazine that the Tigers are “trying to find a team that can satisfy all of their needs in one deal”, but are finding that difficult.” Reportedly, the Reds have offered Adam Dunn, Jason LaRue and Brandon Phillips, but the Tigers are not “very positive about that as a potential return for Bonderman.”

 

(As a side note, our CA source went out of his way to say that Dunn’s value is “plummeting”, saying that teams are not willing to trade “significant young talent” in exchange for a player “whose average goes down while his salary goes up.”)

 

Instead, he says that “Like other teams, who are excited about adding a 200-inning, 200 strikeout arm, the Mets and Yankees are said to trying to find a way to get those players the Tigers would want.”

 

The Mets do not have a potential power-hitting first base option in their system that is major-league ready, but they do have a young catcher in Jesus Flores that scouts rave about, and they have equally high-ceiling prospects in Carlos Gomez and Mike Pelfrey to consider as potential substitutes in a deal as well.

 

However, it’s unlikely that the Mets would deal such a large group of young talent for a pitcher (not named Dontrelle Willis, anyway) with Matsuzaka and Barry Zito available, but they “will look into the Bonderman situation before it’s done.”

 

If the Yankees are indeed trying to “keep” A-Rod, perhaps –- and this is speculation for those keeping score at home -- they may propose a deal of Gary Sheffield, Phil Hughes and Robbie Cano that could make it happen.

 

In GBM’s opinion, that would be far too much to give up, but acquiring a talent like Bonderman could make up for losing a prospect like Hughes. Given the Tigers’ interest in Sheffield, it’s not as far-fetched as it would seem. Also, the free agency of second baseman Ronnie Belliard – whose solid postseason performance helped the Cardinals win the World Series, could offset the potential trade of young Cano.

 

If Bonderman is offered on the same market as Garcia, it's not even close -- any reasonable team would rather give up top talent for Bonderman. I understand the Tigers are seeking infield options in return for Bonderman, but they'd be foolish to pass up on Pelfrey. His presence within our division is about enough to make me vomit with rage.

 

We need Minaya desperate, and FAST. Bonderman must either be traded to another club or given confidence by Detroit he'll remain. Zito/Schmidt must be signed rather quickly by other teams across the league. DAMMIT! Why can't a team just slip up for once when dealing with us and overpay for one of our players!!11?

 

What Detroit is doing right now is exactly what Williams should have done last offseason: shop pitchers at peak value in a market where quality starting pitchers aren't readily available. I'll continue saying it -- not trading any SP last year after obtaining Vazquez was a HUGGGEEE mistake. Aside from McCarthy, whom was expected to replace the departed pitcher. Any reasonable person would have guessed reaching the levels of which Buehrle/Contreras/Garland/Garcia reached would have been unlikely to occur again. It's almost as if Dombrowski is learning from our mistakes.

 

While Bonderman certaintly can be expected to improve, statistically, it was by far his best overall season. Similar to our starters from 05', Bonderman could realistically repeat his performance -- but is it worth the risk of waiting? Even when suitable replacements are available in the minor league system? Hell no. If Pelfrey becomes a Tiger, it'll be worth any perceived risk associated with Bonderman continued success. This is too scary to even think about.

 

To add upon an earlier point, either Sanchez or Miller couldn't immediately replace Bonderman's production, obviously. But if you're Detroit, and you personally believe Bonderman's value may never again match it's current position, wouldn't you take the risk if the right offer were presented? It's not as if Detroit is completely incapable of reaching the postseason without him. Even so -- a potential rotation consisting of Sanchez/Miller/VErlander/Pelfrey is one I'd be willing to accept mediocrity (in 07) for.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Rowand44]

Browsing several internet sites earlier and came upon a scenario I've been dreading.

 

http://www.gothambaseball.com/news/1162844521.php

If Bonderman is offered on the same market as Garcia, it's not even close -- any reasonable team would rather give up top talent for Bonderman. I understand the Tigers are seeking infield options in return for Bonderman, but they'd be foolish to pass up on Pelfrey. His presence within our division is about enough to make me vomit with rage.

 

We need Minaya desperate, and FAST. Bonderman must either be traded to another club or given confidence by Detroit he'll remain. Zito/Schmidt must be signed rather quickly by other teams across the league. DAMMIT! Why can't a team just slip up for once when dealing with us and overpay for one of our players!!11?

 

What Detroit is doing right now is exactly what Williams should have done last offseason: shop pitchers at peak value in a market where quality starting pitchers aren't readily available. I'll continue saying it -- not trading any SP last year after obtaining Vazquez was a HUGGGEEE mistake. Aside from McCarthy, whom was expected to replace the departed pitcher. Any reasonable person would have guessed reaching the levels of which Buehrle/Contreras/Garland/Garcia reached would have been unlikely to occur again. It's almost as if Dombrowski is learning from our mistakes.

 

While Bonderman certaintly can be expected to improve, statistically, it was by far his best overall season. Similar to our starters from 05', Bonderman could be expected to realistically repeat his performance -- but is it worth the risk of waiting? Even when suitable replacements available in the minor league system? Hell no. If Pelfrey becomes a Tiger, it'll be worth any perceived risk associated with Bonderman continued success. This is too scary to even think about.

 

You are one paranoid person my friend.

[Flash Tizzle]

You are one paranoid person my friend.

My mind is like a fricken vortex of paranoid thoughts concerning our team.

 

However, when it comes to the real-world and all the problems faced outside a meaningless game, then I'm rather calm.

[santo=dorf]

Flash, wake up.

 

KW (Williams as you call him,) was shopping Garcia last offseason.

 

Perhaps he didn't get a good offer and decided it was better to hold onto his rotation.

[beck72]

What Detroit is doing right now is exactly what Williams should have done last offseason: shop pitchers at peak value in a market where quality starting pitchers aren't readily available. I'll continue saying it -- not trading any SP last year after obtaining Vazquez was a HUGGGEEE mistake. Aside from McCarthy, whom was expected to replace the departed pitcher. Any reasonable person would have guessed reaching the levels of which Buehrle/Contreras/Garland/Garcia reached would have been unlikely to occur again. It's almost as if Dombrowski is learning from our mistakes.

 

One of the 4 SP's left from 2005 could have easily gone down to injury. Keeping BMac around was the sound insurance policy. You say it was a huuuuge mistake, who or what holes did you expect to fill with a trade? For prospects, coming off a WS win?! I doubt it. For an upgrade at one of the 8 positions?!

 

Keeping all the SP's minus El Duque was the move at the time. In hindsight, knowing the sox didn't repeat, yes someone could have been moved. But not at the time.

 

And a SP will still have very good value this offseason. It's not like the sox can only get AAAA fodder for a guy like Garcia. They should be able to get a teams 2 top 10 prospects and payroll relief.

 

Humber would immediately become the Sox' best pitching prospect (quite obviously), but he left the AFL due to shoulder soreness. The injury troubles certainly have to be taken into consideration when talking about Humber.

 

Again, when talking about Pelfrey, that's a different beast. I'd trade Garcia and even throw in some cash to get Pelfrey with the Sox. He's arguably the best pitching prospect in all of baseball right now, and I'd advocate giving up a lot for him.

 

Pelfrey isn't going anywhere. Humber is probably too big a risk now.

 

But the sox could realistically expect to get Carlos Gomez and a 17 yr old SP who dominated the SAL and ended up in high A, Deolis Guerra from the mets for Freddy. Get a top pitching prospect from the lower levels of the minors. The guys in AAA near ready for the bigs are too valuable for any teams to give up.

[DBAHO]

Some thoughts on the topic at hand here;

 

1) Bonderman isn't going to get traded for young pitching. Detroit already has plenty of that in the likes of Sanchez, Zumaya, Verlander and Tata. If they trade Bonderman, it'll be for a LHH power hitting first baseman like Mark Teixeira. Now would you do Jim Thome for Jeremy Bonderman?

 

2) There's absolutely no way we get Mike Pelfrey. He's basically the Mets version of Brandon McCarthy. Phillip Humber I think is certainly attainable though, especially consdiering his arm problems which makes it a risk though. Humber and Gomez for Garcia could be a possible deal perhaps, but I'd like KW to look elsewhere, to the Texas Rangers. Try to pry John Danks away, or Eric Hurley or Thomas Diamond.

 

3) KW's going to have to wait until the FA market settles until we can see a trade of a SP here I feel. The Mets will probably try to fill their SP need from FA, before having to settle for a trade for a guy like Garcia or Vazquez. Luckily for us, that's where the inflated market value for pitching comes in. Jarrod Washburn's 4 year $36M deal he got last season is a perfext example.

[RockRaines]

I dont see how keeping our rotation and adding Vaz was a stupid move last offseason. Flash wants to trade players at peak value and stock our farm system, but how would that have helped us make a run at repeating last year at all? KW was shopping, but keeping the rotation together made just as much sense considering their talent and their affordability. Its getting pretty old talking about how the Sox should trade all of their established talent for these "sweet" prospects. We are not the twins, we have an actual payroll, and we do not need to stock the farm system at the expense of winning games.

[CWSGuy406]

Thats the key. You have to wait. See where the chips fall, then strike.

 

There just isn't enough good arms to go around. Someone is going to get left out. When Team "X" doesnt land Zito/Schmidt/Maz, Freddy Garcia or Javier Vazquez start to look pretty attractive.

 

See, I don't think it'll necessarily play out this way, though. Kenny seems to like to set the market, not wait for everything to settle before he makes his move.

 

We are not the twins, we have an actual payroll, and we do not need to stock the farm system at the expense of winning games.

 

So you advocated giving up Chris Young, a top ten prospect in all of baseball (probably top 30 heading into last offseason) for a project pitcher?

[RockRaines]

So you advocated giving up Chris Young, a top ten prospect in all of baseball (probably top 30 heading into last offseason) for a project pitcher?

Uh yeah. Who gave us the better chance to win the WS last year? A good SP who makes our rotation better, or a guy who would have spent most of the season in AAA?

[Balta1701]

Uh yeah. Who gave us the better chance to win the WS last year? A good SP who makes our rotation better, or a guy who would have spent most of the season in AAA?

When that pitcher is Javy Vazquez...

[Chisoxfn]

Browsing several internet sites earlier and came upon a scenario I've been dreading.

 

http://www.gothambaseball.com/news/1162844521.php

If Bonderman is offered on the same market as Garcia, it's not even close -- any reasonable team would rather give up top talent for Bonderman. I understand the Tigers are seeking infield options in return for Bonderman, but they'd be foolish to pass up on Pelfrey. His presence within our division is about enough to make me vomit with rage.

 

We need Minaya desperate, and FAST. Bonderman must either be traded to another club or given confidence by Detroit he'll remain. Zito/Schmidt must be signed rather quickly by other teams across the league. DAMMIT! Why can't a team just slip up for once when dealing with us and overpay for one of our players!!11?

 

What Detroit is doing right now is exactly what Williams should have done last offseason: shop pitchers at peak value in a market where quality starting pitchers aren't readily available. I'll continue saying it -- not trading any SP last year after obtaining Vazquez was a HUGGGEEE mistake. Aside from McCarthy, whom was expected to replace the departed pitcher. Any reasonable person would have guessed reaching the levels of which Buehrle/Contreras/Garland/Garcia reached would have been unlikely to occur again. It's almost as if Dombrowski is learning from our mistakes.

 

While Bonderman certaintly can be expected to improve, statistically, it was by far his best overall season. Similar to our starters from 05', Bonderman could realistically repeat his performance -- but is it worth the risk of waiting? Even when suitable replacements are available in the minor league system? Hell no. If Pelfrey becomes a Tiger, it'll be worth any perceived risk associated with Bonderman continued success. This is too scary to even think about.

 

To add upon an earlier point, either Sanchez or Miller couldn't immediately replace Bonderman's production, obviously. But if you're Detroit, and you personally believe Bonderman's value may never again match it's current position, wouldn't you take the risk if the right offer were presented? It's not as if Detroit is completely incapable of reaching the postseason without him. Even so -- a potential rotation consisting of Sanchez/Miller/VErlander/Pelfrey is one I'd be willing to accept mediocrity (in 07) for.

Are you nuts, if the Tigers want to trade Bonderman for Pelfrey and an infielder I'll laugh all the way to the division title cause the Tigers would be trading a studly right arm that has proven himself for a right arm that hasn't.

 

Its one thing if your trading a vet for him, but Bondy is still very young and has tons of good years ahead of him. And if they want Adam Dunn and give up Bondy in a package for him I'll laugh just as hard.

 

Some thoughts on the topic at hand here;

 

1) Bonderman isn't going to get traded for young pitching. Detroit already has plenty of that in the likes of Sanchez, Zumaya, Verlander and Tata. If they trade Bonderman, it'll be for a LHH power hitting first baseman like Mark Teixeira. Now would you do Jim Thome for Jeremy Bonderman?

 

2) There's absolutely no way we get Mike Pelfrey. He's basically the Mets version of Brandon McCarthy. Phillip Humber I think is certainly attainable though, especially consdiering his arm problems which makes it a risk though. Humber and Gomez for Garcia could be a possible deal perhaps, but I'd like KW to look elsewhere, to the Texas Rangers. Try to pry John Danks away, or Eric Hurley or Thomas Diamond.

 

3) KW's going to have to wait until the FA market settles until we can see a trade of a SP here I feel. The Mets will probably try to fill their SP need from FA, before having to settle for a trade for a guy like Garcia or Vazquez. Luckily for us, that's where the inflated market value for pitching comes in. Jarrod Washburn's 4 year $36M deal he got last season is a perfext example.

I'd run home screaming like a little girl if we got Bonderman for Thome, but it won't happen.

 

Some thoughts on the topic at hand here;

 

1) Bonderman isn't going to get traded for young pitching. Detroit already has plenty of that in the likes of Sanchez, Zumaya, Verlander and Tata. If they trade Bonderman, it'll be for a LHH power hitting first baseman like Mark Teixeira. Now would you do Jim Thome for Jeremy Bonderman?

 

2) There's absolutely no way we get Mike Pelfrey. He's basically the Mets version of Brandon McCarthy. Phillip Humber I think is certainly attainable though, especially consdiering his arm problems which makes it a risk though. Humber and Gomez for Garcia could be a possible deal perhaps, but I'd like KW to look elsewhere, to the Texas Rangers. Try to pry John Danks away, or Eric Hurley or Thomas Diamond.

 

3) KW's going to have to wait until the FA market settles until we can see a trade of a SP here I feel. The Mets will probably try to fill their SP need from FA, before having to settle for a trade for a guy like Garcia or Vazquez. Luckily for us, that's where the inflated market value for pitching comes in. Jarrod Washburn's 4 year $36M deal he got last season is a perfext example.

The Rangers prospects are ridiculously over-rated. I don't mind Danks but he isn't near as good as Pelfrey. If we are giving up a front of the line starter than we should try to acquire top of the line talent.

[CWSGuy406]

Uh yeah. Who gave us the better chance to win the WS last year? A good SP who makes our rotation better, or a guy who would have spent most of the season in AAA?

 

Oh, right, cause so long as for ONE year he gives us a better shot to win the WS, it's a good trade, right?

 

Yikes... :banghead

[RockRaines]

Oh, right, cause so long as for ONE year he gives us a better shot to win the WS, it's a good trade, right?

 

Yikes... :banghead

Uh yeah. 5 years down the line didnt mean as much to me as trying to repeat with the best team possible.

[Frankensteiner]

Thats the key. You have to wait. See where the chips fall, then strike.

 

There just isn't enough good arms to go around. Someone is going to get left out. When Team "X" doesnt land Zito/Schmidt/Maz, Freddy Garcia or Javier Vazquez start to look pretty attractive.

 

While there are some that think our rotation is garbage, and the sky is falling, we are dealing from a position of strength this off-season, and Kenny knows a very nice deal can be had....

 

I agree with you here but I'm trying to figure out which teams could be a possible "Team X." I see the Mets and Rangers as possible players for Zito and Schmidt. Yankees will probably go after Maz and Andy Pettitte, but even if they lose out I can't see a match between us and the Yanks unless A-Rod is involved (and who knows with that).

 

I guess we could always try to spin a SP to teams who lose their starters in free agency (i.e. A's with Zito, Giants with Schmidt, or Astros w/Pettitte or possibly Clemens).

[CWSGuy406]

Uh yeah. 5 years down the line didnt mean as much to me as trying to repeat with the best team possible.

 

Five years? Who says that it's going to take Chris Young is going to take five years to develop? There's a strong chance that this year, Chris Young is a more valuable player than Vazquez. Oh, plus the extra $18 million over the next two winters would've been nice to have, too.

[RockRaines]

Five years? Who says that it's going to take Chris Young is going to take five years to develop? There's a strong chance that this year, Chris Young is a more valuable player than Vazquez. Oh, plus the extra $18 million over the next two winters would've been nice to have, too.

More valuable to whom? THIS year, which is all that mattered before the season started, Vaz was much more valuable than Chris Young. I know you would have really wanted his .386 SLG on this year's team and all, but I preferred the already established MLB pitcher.

[CWSGuy406]

THIS year, which is all that mattered

 

To you. Which is all that mattered to you before the season started.

 

I prefer a team that stays competitive over the long haul. That's not to say the Sox won't be competitive without Young, but they'd be in a much better position going forward, and there's no denying that.

 

I believe that a combination of McCarthy + El Duque (with Haeger potentially in the mix) could have given us what Vazquez gave the 2006 White Sox. You apparently don't feel the same way.

 

I felt going into last year that McCarthy was ready to step into the rotation. I also think you'd be nuts to say you'd rather have Vazquez than all the cash + Chris Young going forward, although maybe you believe that Vazquez can return to his Montreal days, which I honestly can't call crazy. The stuff is there, as we all know, but it's now been three full seasons since Vazquez was anything better than average for a whole season.

 

I know you would have really wanted his .386 SLG on this year's team and all, but I preferred the already established MLB pitcher.

 

LOL. So now you turn to a whole 70 major league ABs to make your case.

 

Funny.

 

You're a clever one.

Edited November 7, 2006 by CWSGuy406

[IlliniKrush]

To you. Which is all that mattered to you before the season started.

 

I prefer a team that stays competitive over the long haul. That's not to say the Sox won't be competitive without Young, but they'd be in a much better position going forward, and there's no denying that.

 

I believe that a combination of McCarthy + El Duque (with Haeger potentially in the mix) could have given us what Vazquez gave the 2006 White Sox. You apparently don't feel the same way.

 

I felt going into last year that McCarthy was ready to step into the rotation. I also think you'd be nuts to say you'd rather have Vazquez than all the cash + Chris Young going forward, although maybe you believe that Vazquez can return to his Montreal days, which I honestly can't call crazy. The stuff is there, as we all know, but it's now been three full seasons since Vazquez was anything better than average for a whole season.

LOL. So now you turn to a whole 70 major league ABs to make your case.

 

Funny.

 

You're a clever one.

/punches locker

[witesoxfan]

I agree with you here but I'm trying to figure out which teams could be a possible "Team X." I see the Mets and Rangers as possible players for Zito and Schmidt. Yankees will probably go after Maz and Andy Pettitte, but even if they lose out I can't see a match between us and the Yanks unless A-Rod is involved (and who knows with that).

 

I guess we could always try to spin a SP to teams who lose their starters in free agency (i.e. A's with Zito, Giants with Schmidt, or Astros w/Pettitte or possibly Clemens).

 

I don't see either the Mets or Rangers being players for Schmidt or Zito, as from everything I've read, all signs indicate Zito wanting to stay on the West Coast, as well as the Mets having said they have no interest in Zito. Also, I haven't seen where the Rangers have stated that they will spend more money in free agency this year, atleast in regards to starting pitching. And I'm not sure why the Mets would have interest in going after another injury prone, early to mid 30s starter...they have already been burned by it once.

 

Regarding which teams could be Team X, other than the Rangers or Mets...Phillies, Cardinals, Dodgers, and possibly the Orioles, Reds, Brewers, Mariners, and Red Sox, among other potential suitors. There will be a huge market for starters.

 

More valuable to whom? THIS year, which is all that mattered before the season started, Vaz was much more valuable than Chris Young. I know you would have really wanted his .386 SLG on this year's team and all, but I preferred the already established MLB pitcher.

 

Would McCarthy have been more valuable in the rotation, along with the money saved, along with Young being on the team?

 

Let's not act like trading for Vazquez allowed the Sox a security blanket with McCarthy moving to the bullpen. They traded Duque in the Vazquez deal. Had the deal not gone down, they still would have had Duque and Vizcaino in the bullpen, along with Young in AAA/MLB to go with McCarthy in the rotation. If both Duque and McCarthy were horrible 5th starters...which I would have found pretty hard to believe...then the Sox would have been in trouble, and probably would have had to make a deal for a starting pitcher at the deadline.

 

With all the questions surrounding BA at this point, Young would look really nice waiting in the wings as a potential replacement.

[RockRaines]

To you. Which is all that mattered to you before the season started.

 

I prefer a team that stays competitive over the long haul. That's not to say the Sox won't be competitive without Young, but they'd be in a much better position going forward, and there's no denying that.

 

I believe that a combination of McCarthy + El Duque (with Haeger potentially in the mix) could have given us what Vazquez gave the 2006 White Sox. You apparently don't feel the same way.

 

I felt going into last year that McCarthy was ready to step into the rotation. I also think you'd be nuts to say you'd rather have Vazquez than all the cash + Chris Young going forward, although maybe you believe that Vazquez can return to his Montreal days, which I honestly can't call crazy. The stuff is there, as we all know, but it's now been three full seasons since Vazquez was anything better than average for a whole season.

oooooooo, im not clever!!!!

 

I think everyone who is a fan of the whitesox would have preferred to win the WS last year over being "competitive" for the next few years. Young would have spent the season in AAA which really isnt much of a value to a team that is a favorite to win it all. Vaz was easily our 2nd best pitcher all of this year, so im not sure that Haeger could have given us that much of an effort. Vaz only had 2 months with an ERA over 4.00, which is pretty damn good. I think he figured out alot about how to pitch in this league this year, and I expect a pretty decent year out of him this upcoming season. Hindsight is great and all, but the most valuable piece to the 2006 whitesox team was Vaz, much more than a player who would have spent the whole year in AAA.

 

Let's not act like trading for Vazquez allowed the Sox a security blanket with McCarthy moving to the bullpen. They traded Duque in the Vazquez deal. Had the deal not gone down, they still would have had Duque and Vizcaino in the bullpen, along with Young in AAA/MLB to go with McCarthy in the rotation. If both Duque and McCarthy were horrible 5th starters...which I would have found pretty hard to believe...then the Sox would have been in trouble, and probably would have had to make a deal for a starting pitcher at the deadline.

 

With all the questions surrounding BA at this point, Young would look really nice waiting in the wings as a potential replacement.

Yes, going forward for the next few years, it would have been nice to have a couple of AAA options, and a season with BMAC starting. But for 2006, the best plan was to do what we did. It didnt work out, but you cant honestly say that you werent pretty happy about replacing Viz, who we all hated in the pen and basically was worthless by the end of 2005, and Duque who had no business pitching in the AL at all this year, and was likely to get hurt anyway. From these two pieces we didnt really want, and a promising but unproven prospect we received a pitcher who has the ability to be an ACE Sp for our drive to repeat. Before the season started, it looked like a GREAT deal.