Mets looking to deal Milledge/Heilman?

[DBAHO]

Crisp has never been a high OBP player (career OBP .329). His career OPS is .745. He is at his peak, in that he is 27, and so it might be reasonable to hope for a year like 2005 (career best) where he was around a .340 OBP with an .810 OPS. I think he didn't play well in CF at all last season (some metrics have him being the worst CF in the AL that qualified with enough innings). And regardless of what you think of metrics, the Red Sox are interested in moving him after trading a big, big time prospect for him and locking him up with a new contract. I think they aren't happy with his glove in CF and don't think his bat is adequate in LF.

 

I don't think Crisp is a bad player, and he's definitely quite a bit better than Pods, but I'd hate to see him hitting 1 or 2 in the White Sox lineup.

Maybe it's just me, but .345 is not a good OBP for a leadoff hitter. Iguchi could do that. And Crisp has to hit .300 or above to get his OBP that high, since he doesn't walk. Factor in that you would have to give a up a useful pitcher to get him, and I'll pass on Crisp.

You have to remember he'd be coming to a very good hitting envrionment at the Cell, so that number could rise even.

 

This is where the Sox have to weigh up their options. Dave Roberts had a .360 OBP this season, but would that number stay the same over the course of a 3 year period? Is Juan Pierre going to be worth a 3 year /30M deal?

[witesoxfan]

Youch. Crisp is actually pretty bogus.

 

Sox fans are frustrated that we didn't make the playoffs with such a good team and want to blame it on Podsednik, (who had a mediocre, not horrible, year and endured some bad slumps), who they saw struggling often during the year, rather than on our pitching (poo-tching, really), which took us to a World Series title in '05 by being the best in the AL all year, and then lights out in the playoffs, and in '06 managed to keep us out of the playoffs despite the having #3 run scoring offense in baseball, by giving up an ENTIRE RUN MORE PER GAME THAN WE DID IN '05. Whew, got it all in in one sentence.

 

Crisp last year had a joke OBP of .317 and managed basically half the number of steals that Pods had.

 

We are still talking about the same offense that was 9th in runs scored in the second half of the year, right? Outscored by the likes of, oh, every team in the AL Central? The same offense that was 11th in OBP in the AL in the second half? The same OBP as the Mariners and Tigers, and only better than the DRays?

 

The pitching was bad, but the offense was horrendous in the second half of the year, and there's no debating it. A large factor in that was likely Podsednik's second half OBP of .296.

[DBAHO]

Had this from the New York Times today;

 

But the Mets will anyway, of course, and the first one could come as soon as this week. The Mets have spoken with several teams, including the Chicago White Sox, about potential trades at the general managers meeting here. They are interested in pitchers Freddy García and Javier Vázquez, a longtime favorite of Minaya’s. No one on the Mets is untouchable, Minaya added — “Babe Ruth got traded,” he said — although he did not elaborate on the turn of events that befell the Red Sox afterward. Minaya has received many inquiries about the Mets’ stockpile of young pitchers and outfielders.

 

The Mets’ pitching list begins with Philip Humber and Mike Pelfrey, their highly regarded draft picks from 2004 and 2005, and it also includes Brian Bannister, Alay Soler, Oliver Pérez, John Maine and Aaron Heilman, who would prefer to start next season and would not be averse to receiving that opportunity elsewhere. It is doubtful that the Mets would consider trading Humber or Pelfrey except in a blockbuster deal that would yield someone who would remain under their contractual control for a few years.

 

So it looks like if we want Humber or Pelfrey, it's gonna cost Vazquez and not Garcia.

[cwsfan13]

Had this from the New York Times today;

So it looks like if we want Humber or Pelfrey, it's gonna cost Vazquez and not Garcia.

One thing to consider here is what the Spankies and Tigers did .The Tigers had a negotiating window with Sheff and the same could be done here .I think Freddy would be interested in talking to the Mets about a contract X .They were a playoff team and it is the NL with no DH and not alot of hitters have seen him .

 

If something like this could be worked out it should increase his value and maybe the Mets wont be so Anal about giving up top prospects or whatever it is KW wants .

 

The same could also be said about Javy . Ater all he never wanted to leave NY in the first place .

[SoxHawk1980]

Had this from the New York Times today;

So it looks like if we want Humber or Pelfrey, it's gonna cost Vazquez and not Garcia.

IF the NY Times article is correct, then Humber of Pelfrey for Vazquez isn't going to happen. THAT would not be a "blockbuster trade". In order for it to get to the blockbuster level, both teams would have to throw in considerably more talent, and I really doubt KW is looking to shake up the roster that much.

[SoxFan562004]

IF the NY Times article is correct, then Humber of Pelfrey for Vazquez isn't going to happen. THAT would not be a "blockbuster trade". In order for it to get to the blockbuster level, both teams would have to throw in considerably more talent, and I really doubt KW is looking to shake up the roster that much.

I wouldn't be shocked if KW shook it up, I don't think he was pleased at all with the 2nd half, and doesn't exactly want to bring back the same roster.

[knightni]

All fan's do.

 

Point in case Brian N. Anderson with most White Sox fans, and Izzy Alcantara with me.

 

I get a kick outta that guy.

 

[RME JICO]

From Newsday:

 

One possibility is a deal for the White Sox's Javier Vazquez, a pitcher who Minaya has coveted for the past two years and is known to be on the block. The Mets have a surplus of young pitching talent with Mike Pelfrey and Philip Humber waiting at Triple-A Norfolk, and teams have constantly asked Minaya about Aaron Heilman, who remains stuck in a setup role despite his public campaign to become a starter again.

 

"I think I'll be doing something," Minaya said. "Probably be doing something, trade-wise. There seems to be an appetite for dialogue, so far, from the little meetings that I've had. We have some pretty good young kids. I can tell you there's a pretty good appetite for some of our young players, especially some of our young outfielders and some of our young pitchers."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition...ny-sports-print

Edited November 15, 2006 by RME JICO

[bulokis]

From Newsday:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition...ny-sports-print

 

I would love to see Vazquez traded to the mets for young pitching prospects. Last year, Vaz just did not show enough that he wanted to win.

[RME JICO]

I would love to see Vazquez traded to the mets for young pitching prospects. Last year, Vaz just did not show enough that he wanted to win.

If the Sox do trade him, then whoever they get in the trade will actually have been traded for El Duque, Vizcaino, and Young.

[KevHead0881]

Didn't see this posted anywhere. From SI.com...

 

The Mets are one of many teams who will show interest in one or more of a trio of White Sox starters -- Freddy Garcia, Javier Vazquez or Mark Buerhle -- who could be available. The White Sox have interest in Mets pitching prospect Mike Pelfrey, but one person said "Pelfrey isn't going for any of those pitchers.''

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...ed.scoop/2.html

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Didn't see this posted anywhere. From SI.com...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...ed.scoop/2.html

Their sources is one person....what is he like the drunk at the hotel bar....

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Didn't see this posted anywhere. From SI.com...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...ed.scoop/2.html

Well that ends half of the trade suggestions from here.

[KevHead0881]

Their sources is one person....what is he like the drunk at the hotel bar....

 

I thought that was weird as well. But somebody said it, and apparently he was important enough to use as a source for his article. Maybe it was my mailman.

[ptatc]

Crisp was hurt most of the year, and did his best to come back, despite the injury. Pods, as told to me by my Milwaukee friends will be a bust after year 1. seems about right.

 

Well it's a good thing Pods didn't have off season surgery or any other groin injuries otherwise you could you the same excuses for him

[Flash Tizzle]

Didn't see this posted anywhere. From SI.com...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...ed.scoop/2.html

What!? The rotation assembled from God's own image can't even net a pitching prospect?

 

Looks like I should brace myself for disappointment when one of the starters do depart. Aside from a weak package, I just know we're going to demand the other club pay the players remaining salary. Thus, weakening our return value even more.

 

OF COURSE Pelfrey isn't worth any of our starters, but if Minaya desires a paper thin starting rotation to maintain leads for his offense, then so be it. He can obtain Mulder, or some other scrub on the market.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What!? The rotation assembled from God's own image can't even net a pitching prospect?

 

Looks like I should brace myself for disappointment when one of the starters do depart. Aside from a weak package, I just know we're going to demand the other club pay the players remaining salary. Thus, weakening our return value even more.

 

OF COURSE Pelfrey isn't worth any of our starters, but if Minaya desires a paper thin starting rotation to maintain leads for his offense, then so be it. He can obtain Mulder, or some other scrub on the market.

The Mets highly value this guy and won't give him up for a one year rental. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

You are a broken record. Three years ago you were in favor of trading Maggs and Konerko to the Dodgers because "Jackson and Miller can both solitify our rotation for years to come"

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jan 17, 2004 -> 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It gets annoying when everyone ALWAYS seems to know whats going to happen and what won't. Its out of our control....and furthermore the trade makes sense when you consider Konerko is inconsistent and Maggs is in his walk year. His 14 Million dollar salary is going to be the base price for a multi-year contract and there is no way we should be him that over several years. I love the guy, but 14 million can be better spent.

 

In the short run, as in this year, we might go through some hard times. I will still root for this team regardless of a last place finish. Hard to believe, but my uncle lives in Detroit and there are still many die-hard Tigers fans....and they're not 60 year old guys who remember the glory days of the franchise. I'll still b**** if they're terrible, but I know that this is temporary. In 05' there will be alot of money freed up to pursue free agents. Don't know all of them, but there will no doubt be alot with all the 1 year deals going around.

 

Sox are getting quality pitchers in return. Jackson and Miller can both solitify our rotation for years to come........might not even have to wait that long to see them if there are problems in the 5th starter spot.

[Flash Tizzle]

 

Obviously, I can't defend that. One positive I can give myself is atleast I've remained consistent. You may consider that a broken record, but I'm sure if I flipflopped somewhere during my nearly 8,000 posts you'd find that as well.

 

But really, that comment is from nearly three years ago. Weren't you more recently advocating the trade of basically the entire team for Randy Johnson? If I didn't have a train to catch I'm sure I would find it. Everyone has had their share of poor proposals.

[santo=dorf]

I was in favor of trading Jon Garland and Paul Konerko for RJ and signing a stopgap first baseman like Tony Clark.

 

I wasn't trying to say "look at what YOU suggested X amount of years ago." It's your principles that I disagree with.

I don't think trading established players foucsed on pitching prospects thinking they are going to anchor our organization for years to come is the right way to go. You hammer this down in every post.

Edited November 15, 2006 by santo=dorf

[whitesoxfan101]

We should actually use all of our money to scout Latin America and have a rotation of 5 Francisco Liriano's, IMO.

[Balta1701]

We should actually use all of our money to scout Latin America and have a rotation of 5 Francisco Liriano's, IMO.

Great, so our entire AAA rotation would be called into action when all 5 of our starting pitchers needed Tommy John surgery.

[witesoxfan]

From Rosey at Foxsports...

 

Gotta cost atleast Pelfreyto get Vazquez I'd have to imagine, just cuz both KW and Omar have man crushes on him.

[DBAHO]

So IF we gave up Garcia and Anderson to the Rangers, what type of package would you deem suitable?

 

Eric Hurley - RHP, 5-6, 4.11 ERA, 106/32 K/BB ratio at High A, 3-1, 1.95 ERA, 31/11 K/BB ratio at AA.

5-5, 3.87 in 17 starts for Class A Bakersfield, 100/30 K/BB in 95 innings, 85 hits allowed. Doing well, quite overpowering at times, still sharpening up his command within the strike zone.

 

John Danks - LHP, 5-4, 4.15 ERA, 82/22 K/BB ratio at AA, 4-5, 4.33 ERA, 72/34 K/BB ratio at AAA in the PCL.

Combined 7-6, 4.23 in 17 starts between Oklahoma and Double-A Frisco, 101/32 K/BB in 89 innings. Still erratic but very promising.

 

Thomas Diamond - RHP, 12-5, 4.24 ERA, 145/78 K/BB ratio at AA.

 

9-4, 3.90 in 19 starts for Frisco, 115/57 K/BB in 95 innings, 76 hits allowed. Like Danks, still somewhat erratic but still very promising.

 

Joaquin Arias - SS, .268/.296/.361 in AAA in the PCL, .545/.583/.636 in 11AB's for the Rangers.

Hitting .263/.301/.364 with 19 steals in 77 games for Oklahoma. Disappointing, showing speed and athleticism but not much else. Status has slipped but still young.

 

Nick Masset - Converted starter, had 9 saves with a 2.25 ERA in the Mexican Winter League on Nov. 12.

[DBAHO]

More stuff on the Rangers pitching prospects;

 

"The 2011 American League Cy Young winner is in the Rangers system right now. Who is it?"

 

The usual answer is Eric Hurley. Understand nobody is predicting that, they are just answering my question who is the most likely.

 

Hurley was 8-7 with a 3.53 ERA in 24 starts between Class A Bakersfield and Double-A Frisco last year. He was 3-1 with a 1.95 ERA in six starts at Frisco before being shut down in mid-August with a strained ribcage.

 

He was the 30th overall pick in the 2004, compensation for the Braves signing John Thomson. Hurley is 6-foot-4, pitched in the Futures Game and turned 21 in August.

 

He has the best chance of being that No. 1 guy. John Danks is still developing as a left-handed starter, and I still think he'll get stronger physically. I think he could be a No. 2 or 3 guy in a rotation. That's best case. Thomas Diamond has that chance as well, especially if he comes up with a second really good pitch. Edinson Volquez has a lot of work ahead of him.

 

1. Eric Hurley, RHP: A first round pick out of high school in 2004, Hurley, 20, has flashed immense potential, but still has some flaws that need to be overcome in order to reach his high ceiling. A Jeff Kent look-alike, Hurley started the season in High A-Bakersfield and put up very similar numbers to his 2005 stats in A-Clinton (4.11 ERA and .243 BAA in Bakersfield vs. 3.77 and .234). He earned a late-season promotion to AA-Frisco, where he continued to improve upon his numbers - 1.95 ERA and .168 BAA in six starts. The only major flaw on his statistical resume is his propensity to give up the long ball, 1.05 HR/9 between A+ and AA. His changeup is also still a work in progress, but Hurley is still very impressive, striking out 137 in 137.2 innings in 2006 and holding hitters to a .222 BAA. The Rangers are taking it slow with Hurley, so they’ll probably have him start the year in AA-Frisco again, and he likely won’t see the majors until 2008.

 

3. John Danks, LHP: The Rangers First round pick from the 2003 draft could benefit from another season in AAA-Oklahoma, but if the team decides they need him at the big league level, he shouldn’t disappoint. Danks, 21, sports a plus curveball, a low 90’s fastball with good movement, and a run of the mill changeup. His 2006 strikeout ratio was solid in AA-Frisco and AAA-Oklahoma, as he totaled 154 strikeouts in 140 innings, but Danks likely won’t develop into a top-tier starter - he projects more as a No. 2 or No. 3. Still, in a system historically devoid of pitching, that’s not something to scoff at.

[GoodAsGould]

My friend who is a diehard rangers fan is super excited about Hurley... he thinks that the kid will be the next best thing. Personally im more of a Danks fan myself and I dont care for Diamond that much at all.