CWSGuy406 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 09:14 PM) This is the worst deal I've seen made in a long time. No worse than the Kearns deal that Krivsky made around the trade deadline... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 04:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No worse than the Kearns deal that Krivsky made around the trade deadline... Given the Reds need for pitching, this deal easily takes the cake in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 03:18 PM) Given the Reds need for pitching, this deal easily takes the cake in my opinion. What irks you most about the trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 09:18 PM) Given the Reds need for pitching, this deal easily takes the cake in my opinion. How so? Krisvky gave up Kearns for mediocre relievers, and what he thought was an "upgrade" at short in Royce Clayton. Sanchez isn't even Detroit's best pitching prospect. He's arguably their number three at the moment, behind Tata (Taja? something of the sort) and Miller. That also doesn't mention Ledezma who will most likely move into the rotation in the next two years. I'm not saying this is a bad deal for Detroit. Given the Yankees' situation, I think this was a pretty good job by Cashman. But Sheffield is still a very good offensive player when healthy. Edited November 10, 2006 by CWSGuy406 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 03:27 PM) How so? Krisvky gave up Kearns for mediocre relievers, and what he thought was an "upgrade" at short in Royce Clayton. Sanchez isn't even Detroit's best pitching prospect. He's arguably their number three at the moment, behind Tata (Taja? something of the sort) and Miller. That also doesn't mention Ledezma who will most likely move into the rotation in the next two years. I'm not saying this is a bad deal for Detroit. Given the Yankees' situation, I think this was a pretty good job by Cashman. But Sheffield is still a very good offensive player when healthy. Sanchez was pretty damn good last year, I think he put up a sub 2 ERA in AA and sub 4 in AAA. I would say that would put him right up there as a top prospect. Edited November 10, 2006 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 09:28 PM) Sanchez was pretty damn good last year, I think he put up a sub 2 ERA in AA and sub 4 in AAA. I would say that would put him right up there as a top prospect. We're debating semantics, as determining who is a better pitching prospect is tough. But I thought I also read that there are some injury concerns with Sanchez. This isn't 100% certain, and I could be completely wrong, but I thought I read that. He is a pretty big guy; Baseballcube has him listed at 6'6, 230. My main point, though, was that Detroit is dealing from a surplus here, and I think it's reasonable to say that Sanchez is second behind Miller (reasonable, not concrete fact by any means). I'd take Miller because his college pedigree and dominance and his stuff as a lefty. But I do agree with you that this is quite the haul for New York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeFroman Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 So what does this mean for an Arod deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackTalkThai Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(tpezz27 @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 04:39 PM) Didn't the Tigers refuse to give up Sanchez for Soriano last year.....could have won them a world series! Now they get an old busted up Sheffield and have him for three years....interesting! If that's all they wanted for Soriano, Dombrowski would have tripped over himself running to the table to sign that deal. But that's not what they wanted. They wanted Sanchez AND Cameron Maybin. lol. Which was a joke. And Sanchez has had chronic health issues for some time. He hasn't had a full healthy season in a few years. He has somewhat of a violent delivery that projects more like that of a plus bullpen guy than of a starter. Edited November 10, 2006 by JackTalkThai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 QUOTE(AbeFroman @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 01:38 PM) So what does this mean for an Arod deal? It means that the Yankees need less pitching, so it probably makes it harder for teams to pull off, as the Yanks are less desperate. QUOTE(JackTalkThai @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 01:42 PM) If that's all they wanted for Soriano, Dombrowski would have tripped over himself running to the table to sign that deal. But that's not what they wanted. They wanted Sanchez AND Cameron Maybin. lol. Which was a joke. How stupid do both sides look for not finding a middle ground? The Tigers lost a world series, and the Nationals will lose Soriano for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 03:35 PM) We're debating semantics, as determining who is a better pitching prospect is tough. But I thought I also read that there are some injury concerns with Sanchez. This isn't 100% certain, and I could be completely wrong, but I thought I read that. He is a pretty big guy; Baseballcube has him listed at 6'6, 230. My main point, though, was that Detroit is dealing from a surplus here, and I think it's reasonable to say that Sanchez is second behind Miller (reasonable, not concrete fact by any means). I'd take Miller because his college pedigree and dominance and his stuff as a lefty. But I do agree with you that this is quite the haul for New York. Agree, they are dealing from a point of strength which makes this hurt less for Detroit, but they are tying quite a bit of money up in an over the hill player, especially when the team basically has had one good season out of many, and has no guarantee of attendance figures again next year. Heres the stats BTW \ Sanchez, 23, was a combined 10-6 with a 2.53 ERA and 129 strikeouts in 123 innings with Triple-A Toledo and Double-A Erie this year. Whelan, 22, was 4-1 with a 2.67 ERA and 27 saves for Class A Lakeland. Claggett, 22, was 7-2 with an 0.91 ERA and 14 saves for Class A West Michigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Sheffield was with Leyland and Dombrowski in Fla. He still will hit, and might not be the clubhouse cancer it seems like he would be almost anywhere else. I still think Detroit's pitching is going to take a step back next season. They weren't .500 post all star break, but then again, neither were the White Sox. The Tigers may find Rogers pitching his age next year, and one or 2 of the other guys taking a step back. I still think this is a better idea for them than trading Bonderman, but they would have been better off signing a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackTalkThai Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 05:53 PM) but they would have been better off signing a free agent. And they still likely will. After listening to Dombrowski just a bit ago, Detroit isn't done dealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Well besides the fact that the Tigers gave up a lot we got a "tough cookie" to face next season. They have a pretty nice lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 04:04 PM) Well besides the fact that the Tigers gave up a lot we got a "tough cookie" to face next season. They have a pretty nice lineup. Sheffield doesnt scare me at this point for whatever reason. He isnt going to have the protection he had in that lineup, and he sure as hell is on the down swing in his career. You have to remember that he is 38 years old and is off the juice that kept him so good for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Yankees fans are lovin' the deal. http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=100163 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I don't think it's as bad of deal as you guys are saying. Say what you want about Sheff, but he could be the middle of the order bat they need. Sanchez is a good prospect, but the guy's been hurt like crazy the last few years. Whelan is a decent prospect. I still like the trade from the Yanks side a lot better though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 03:47 PM) Sanchez, 23, was a combined 10-6 with a 2.53 ERA and 129 strikeouts in 123 innings with Triple-A Toledo and Double-A Erie this year. Whelan, 22, was 4-1 with a 2.67 ERA and 27 saves for Class A Lakeland. Claggett, 22, was 7-2 with an 0.91 ERA and 14 saves for Class A West Michigan. I know this isn't going to surprise you, but I seriously envy the Yankees about now. That's one HELL of a package for Sheffield. Think about their position -- are the Yankees ever short of offense? Are they ever short of money needed to acquire more offense? What's typically lacking for the Yankees is a formidable system, which now has been further solidified. What exactly do they lose? If Williams could receive a similar return for Garica/Vazquez/Buehrle I'd literally kiss his ass. We desperately need a trade such as this to replenish our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg The Bull Luzinski Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Sheffield is likely to add offense, but more importantly, can he help the Tiger Pitchers with their fielding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Too bad he's now in the ALC, but, I'm really happy he's not with the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Well I'm happy with this because Sheffield's probably one of those acquisitions who's more trouble than he's worth. The Tigers could have just gone into the FA market and tried to sign a J.D Drew instead, and they give up 3 quality pitching prospects for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 The man can flat rake. Sure they gave up a good pitching prospect but last I looked the Tigers have a ton of those and needed that middle of the order bat. They got exactly that in Sheff. He may whine and complain from time to time but when on the field he always produces at an All Star level. Plus he didn't really have any problems in Florida en route to winning the world series with Leyland/Dombrowski. This seems like one of those win/win trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 (edited) If there's any justice in the world, a general manager out there will pull a Dave Dombrowski and overpay for one of our starting pitchers. It's just annoying to me how fortune falls onto the hands of New York -- a team which doesn't need it. Even if none of the prospects pan out, it's far better than say a compensation pick. Considering what Sheffield cost the Tigers, in a pitching market where even Jeff Suppan may command 7-9 million, anything less than two quality prospects is a travesty. Please lord, have someone overpay for our players. Other teams are doing it!!!!11 Edited November 11, 2006 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 05:28 PM) Considering what Sheffield cost the Tigers, in a pitching market where even Jeff Suppan may command 7-9 million, anything less than two quality prospects is a travesty. Please lord, have someone overpay for our players. Other teams are doing it!!!!11 At this rate, it looks like the market for our pitchers is just going to be ridiculous. To the point where trading 2 of them actually makes sense. Do you want Jeff Suppan for $8 million or Freddy Garcia for $9 million? Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxHawk1980 Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 So, does this make the Tigers more or less of a threat for the division next year? Sheffield seems pretty rough on clubhouses if you ask me. This certainly makes the Tigers significantly better next year. They needed a big bat and they got a huge one. The loss of good prospects is important, but they are just prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackTalkThai Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2006 -> 05:28 PM) Sanchez was pretty damn good last year, I think he put up a sub 2 ERA in AA and sub 4 in AAA. I would say that would put him right up there as a top prospect. He was a top prospect but he wasnt THE top prospect. When you take health, age, stuff and projections into account, I would've placed Sanchez as Detroit's #3 pitching prospect. But how much "major league caliber" starting pitching does one organization really need? I count the Tigers having TEN arms that could start for them next season, if need be. If any team had room to trade a couple of quality young arms...it was Detroit without question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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