Cubs re-sign Aramis

[The Critic]

I didnt know he wasnt there to pitch in the rotation when they needed him most.

Comprehension clouded by fanboyism.

[RockRaines]

He better be playing sidekick though. He proved last year he can't do it unless he has major lineup protection, and I still don't like the idea of a guy not showing up for 3 months, waiting for the team to die, then fattening up when the season is done to get his money. But then again, you see lots of guys like that on World Champs, so maybe your right.

I wouldnt have minded a strong second half player on my white sox team. IM sure the tigers would have given their left nut for one of those down the stretch.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 31, 2006 -> 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, im sure that he is a bad player because he had a slow start, im sure that is totally what type of player he is, blah blah blah

 

 

30 hr's 100+rbi's

 

you can paint it any way you want to. The guy can flat out produce.

 

 

 

Slow start is putting it mildly. Playing badly when it mattered including piss poor fielding would be putting it correctly. The guy produced at the plate only when it doesn't matter and never produces in the field. He was only decent 2 years ago in the field because Derek Lee came up with a lot or errant throws that would have been errors on any other team without huge and nimble Derek Lee playing first base. He will lose a lot of games for any other team including the Angels and that is why I would love to see this loser on that team.

 

 

 

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2006 -> 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, a lot of teams would like a guy who is a good 2nd half hitter.

 

 

 

Yeah, but then you will have to put up with his horrid defense at a particular critical defensive position. Just another observation. I got it, I got it, OUCH! My freaking oversized melon is killing me. Plus his lazy ass never runs or plays very hard. I have 2 eyes that see much more than stats while watching a baseball game. I would love for them to sign Carlos Lee and re-sign Aramis Ramirez. They will put up the stats but that would be one losing mix for sure.

[witesoxfan]

Slow start is putting it mildly.

 

Really? Mildly?

 

OPS's in the first 3 months

April - .716

May - .791

June - .801

 

He wasn't putting up cleanup hitter's numbers, but you make it sound as though he was flat out horrible. That just isn't the case.

 

Playing badly when it mattered including piss poor fielding would be putting it correctly.

 

So had he come out of the gate like a racehorse, and then finished with those numbers, then what?

 

Injuries and a lack of talent killed the Cubs, not Aramis's mediocrity in the first half.

 

The guy produced at the plate only when it doesn't matter and never produces in the field.

 

I've already pointed out in another thread that his slugging in close and late situations is generally high, and he was solid as hell in the 2003 playoffs. Add to it his consistently solid numbers with RISP, and I still don't buy this argument, and I never will.

 

He's not great defensively, but he's a hell of a hitter. All the numbers indicate that.

[RockRaines]

Slow start is putting it mildly. Playing badly when it mattered including piss poor fielding would be putting it correctly. The guy produced at the plate only when it doesn't matter and never produces in the field.

Wow, pretty ignorant way to look at a player. Im not sure if the season EVER mattered for the cubs, but a player who put up the season long numbers like he did is a top player. What if he started out hot and got cold, would he then be a better player? Then you would say he didnt produce when it mattered at the END of the season. The guy flat out rakes, deal with it.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, pretty ignorant way to look at a player. Im not sure if the season EVER mattered for the cubs, but a player who put up the season long numbers like he did is a top player. What if he started out hot and got cold, would he then be a better player? Then you would say he didnt produce when it mattered at the END of the season. The guy flat out rakes, deal with it.

 

Pretty ignorant? No sir, that would be you. You are ignoring the fact that he plays horrible defense after I have repeated this fact time and time again, yet you have no defense for that. That is ignorant.

 

Did it matter in the end last year when he produced? NO! If it did and he produced then I would say he produced when it mattered - in the end when he was counted on. The Cubs season only had a chance in the beginning. He did not produce, for whatever reason that may be, when the season actually mattered and his team had a chance. He flat out rakes when the season doesn't matter any longer. Other than that - he is a bum both defensively and offensively. Deal with it.

 

 

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 01:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really? Mildly?

 

OPS's in the first 3 months

April - .716

May - .791

June - .801

 

He wasn't putting up cleanup hitter's numbers, but you make it sound as though he was flat out horrible. That just isn't the case.

 

 

 

So had he come out of the gate like a racehorse, and then finished with those numbers, then what?

 

Injuries and a lack of talent killed the Cubs, not Aramis's mediocrity in the first half.

 

 

 

I've already pointed out in another thread that his slugging in close and late situations is generally high, and he was solid as hell in the 2003 playoffs. Add to it his consistently solid numbers with RISP, and I still don't buy this argument, and I never will.

 

He's not great defensively, but he's a hell of a hitter. All the numbers indicate that.

 

Oh yes, lets just ignore the defense part. Not great? He is HORRIBLE! I don't care what the numbers say. I have two eyes. I have seen him play a lot of games. He is a dog. Get your damn statheads out of your statasses and watch him play a freaking game. Use your eyes.

[RockRaines]

Pretty ignorant? No sir, that would be you. You are ignoring the fact that he plays horrible defense after I have repeated this fact time and time again, yet you have no defense for that. That is ignorant.

 

Did it matter in the end last year when he produced? NO! If it did and he produced then I would say he produced when it mattered - in the end when he was counted on. The Cubs season only had a chance in the beginning. He did not produce, for whatever reason that may be, when the season actually mattered and his team had a chance. He flat out rakes when the season doesn't matter any longer. Other than that - he is a bum both defensively and offensively. Deal with it.

Oh yes, lets just ignore the defense part. Not great? He is HORRIBLE! I don't care what the numbers say. I have two eyes. I have seen him play a lot of games. He is a dog. Get your damn statheads out of your statasses and watch him play a freaking game. Use your eyes.

 

Seriously? He is a bad player because he had a slow start, hilarious. I guess once the two months were over and the cubs were out of it he decided to start playing, because thats how he is, he only plays when it doesnt matter. Lets totally ignore his career numbers of .275 .330 before the all star break and .285 .335 after the break, because of course, he only plays when it doesnt matter. Of course in 2004 when it didnt matter pre all star break he was .326 .374, and post .308 .372, because of course, it just didnt matter. 2005 .298 .356 before the all star break was terrible because he only plays when it doesnt matter. I mean, one year of having a slow start and now his career is defined by only playing when it doesnt matter.

 

 

Defensively he is not the best player on the field, but a dog? Hmmmm. Well lets see who had a worse FPct at 3B than A-ram:

 

Encarnacion

C Tracy

A Rod

B Inge

P Feliz

G Atkins

D Bell

D wright

C Jones

M Cabrera

M Mora

A boone

T Glaus

M Teahen

M Izturis

B upton

H Blalock

M Ensberg

C Figgins

N Punto

A Marte

 

 

He also had the same Fpct as S Rolen and R Zimmerman. A-ram also had only 3 more errors than Joe (Gold Glove) Crede. Overall he ranked 5th in FPCT by a 3B who played more than 100 games. Those in front of him: E Chavez, M Lowell, J Crede, A Beltre.

 

Does that do enough to address your point about his defense?

[mr_genius]

if the cubs lose 30+ Hr's and 100+ rbi's they will officially be trying to win every game 1-0

 

 

they can do that! GO CUBBIES!

[witesoxfan]

Oh yes, lets just ignore the defense part. Not great? He is HORRIBLE! I don't care what the numbers say. I have two eyes. I have seen him play a lot of games. He is a dog. Get your damn statheads out of your statasses and watch him play a freaking game. Use your eyes.

 

So you're telling me he's a good hitter. That's really all I was arguing

 

It's not like I haven't seen the guy play. He's a good hitter and he's not good defensively.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2006 -> 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seriously? He is a bad player because he had a slow start, hilarious. I guess once the two months were over and the cubs were out of it he decided to start playing, because thats how he is, he only plays when it doesnt matter. Lets totally ignore his career numbers of .275 .330 before the all star break and .285 .335 after the break, because of course, he only plays when it doesnt matter. Of course in 2004 when it didnt matter pre all star break he was .326 .374, and post .308 .372, because of course, it just didnt matter. 2005 .298 .356 before the all star break was terrible because he only plays when it doesnt matter. I mean, one year of having a slow start and now his career is defined by only playing when it doesnt matter.

 

 

Defensively he is not the best player on the field, but a dog? Hmmmm. Well lets see who had a worse FPct at 3B than A-ram:

 

Encarnacion

C Tracy

A Rod

B Inge

P Feliz

G Atkins

D Bell

D wright

C Jones

M Cabrera

M Mora

A boone

T Glaus

M Teahen

M Izturis

B upton

H Blalock

M Ensberg

C Figgins

N Punto

A Marte

 

 

He also had the same Fpct as S Rolen and R Zimmerman. A-ram also had only 3 more errors than Joe (Gold Glove) Crede. Overall he ranked 5th in FPCT by a 3B who played more than 100 games. Those in front of him: E Chavez, M Lowell, J Crede, A Beltre.

 

Does that do enough to address your point about his defense?

 

 

 

Fielding Percentage makes you a good fielder? Since when? Having less errors makes you a better fielder? Since when? There is no way to realistically base the quality of a players defense with statistics. Use your two eyes instead of stats. Like I said, get your stathead out of your statass. He also has one of the best and tallest defensive 1st basemen in the game which helps him out a lot. He is without a doubt a dog on the basepaths and a dog in the field. There is no doubt about that. He is the Carlos Lee of 3rd basemen. If you think that is a good thing then so be it. I don't. Any team without Carlos Lee and/or Aramis Ramirez is a better team.

Edited November 2, 2006 by southsideirish

[TLAK]

Too bad for Cubs fans that he was absolutely invisible when they needed him most.

The vast majority of his numbers last season came when the season was lost and done with, and he could officially shift into "play for the new contract mode".

He's the Joe Murphy of baseball - nice numbers, but all of them empty and meaningless.

Aren't you being hard on Erroramis? He was just hustling at the wrong time, he didn't want to clog up the bases by getting on, he has has a pulled ham string for two entire seasons. At least give him credit for using his head on the field. I hope the blue vermin resign him just to watch what Pinella does to him.

[RockRaines]

Fielding Percentage makes you a good fielder? Since when? Having less errors makes you a better fielder? Since when? There is no way to realistically base the quality of a players defense with statistics. Use your two eyes instead of stats. Like I said, get your stathead out of your statass. He also has one of the best and tallest defensive 1st basemen in the game which helps him out a lot. He is without a doubt a dog on the basepaths and a dog in the field. There is no doubt about that. He is the Carlos Lee of 3rd basemen. If you think that is a good thing then so be it. I don't. Any team without Carlos Lee and/or Aramis Ramirez is a better team.

No it doest make him a good fielder, as i said, he isnt that great, but he isnt a dog either. And errors does contribute to what kind of a fielder you are, and its one of the ways to look at how good a player is at his position. Your cub hatred has gotten in the way of recognizing that A-ram is actually a really good player. He is one of the better hitting 3B and is passable at 3B.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 2, 2006 -> 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No it doest make him a good fielder, as i said, he isnt that great, but he isnt a dog either. And errors does contribute to what kind of a fielder you are, and its one of the ways to look at how good a player is at his position. Your cub hatred has gotten in the way of recognizing that A-ram is actually a really good player. He is one of the better hitting 3B and is passable at 3B.

 

 

 

My Cub hatred has not gotten in the way of seeing A-Ram as a good player. He is a below average all around player. He is horrible at fielding his position and is awful running the bases. Can he hit? Yes. Most of the time. That does not make him a good player. He is the 3rd base version of Carlos Lee. He will make any team that he ends up on worse, because overall he is a below average player that is going to be making above average player money. My Cub hatred did not get in the way of this, my own two eyes have. I have seen him play a lot and he is, in every sense of the word, a dog. Stop looking at the stats and watch him play for about a week or 2 straight and you too will come to that conclusion.

 

 

 

Oh, and errors can be a good way to tell if someone is good at fielding their position or not, but you have to take other things into account such as his awesome first baseman saving his ass from having 3 times the number of errors that he should have. There is not a better defensive first baseman than Derek Lee and he saves him a lot of errors. This is a luxury no other 3rd baseman has and he still looks horrible playing his position.

Edited November 3, 2006 by southsideirish

[RockRaines]

Oh, and errors can be a good way to tell if someone is good at fielding their position or not, but you have to take other things into account such as his awesome first baseman saving his ass from having 3 times the number of errors that he should have. There is not a better defensive first baseman than Derek Lee and he saves him a lot of errors. This is a luxury no other 3rd baseman has and he still looks horrible playing his position.

Kinda funny how you think thats true, yet D Lee was out most of the season, and playing first base were alot of first time players of that position.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kinda funny how you think thats true, yet D Lee was out most of the season, and playing first base were alot of first time players of that position.

 

Truthiness is better than your land of stats and facts. You used a little truthiness yourself I may add. John Mabry, Phil Nevin, and Todd Walker were the players that were at 1st base during Lee's absence. Not one was a first time player of that position. Not one. Lee still played more than any other player at 1st base for the Cubs last year.

 

Just for the record John Mabry, Phil Nevin, and Todd Walker all had higher fielding percentages than Derek Lee at first base last year. They all made less errors than Derek Lee last year. The innings played aren't that far off either. Derek Lee played 393 innings at 1B for the Cubs last year. The rest are Mabry 352, Walker 311, and Nevin at 282. By the way Nevin didn't make any errors. We all know Derek Lee is WAY better than all three of them at his position. Stats can't tell you how good a player is defensively. Please stop using them in that way. Just watch them play.

 

Please don't defend Ramirez's defense. We both know he sucks just by watching him. He had an easy pop up bounce off his big freaking melon head. We all have bad days, but come on.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

Everyone on here keeps calling him a dog, etc. But the guy flat out has great stats. Even with his lazy attitude, he will produce over 100 RBI's for you.

 

He's the Vince Carter of baseball -- total and complete frontrunner, whose effort is directly affected by how well his team his doing.

[MarlinFan84]

I hope they enjoy the 5/60 to 5/65 they'll be paying a dog (in terms of effort) if they plan on keeping him. And it's 5/75 more to get a free swinging vet who can't play defense and who would play in CF (Soriano). And they still have no pitching, a hole in LF, RF, at 2B, and SS...... as well as CF and 3B if they can't get those 2 guys, and a thin pitching FA market (and thin market in general), with the Cubs having no farm system....ya they are pretty bad.

 

The Cubs never win bidding wars, and they'll have to in order to get Zito, A Ram, Soriano, or Matsuzaka. I wish them good luck with that one.

 

LF/RF-Murton, Carlos Lee I heard wants to play for the Cubbies, so Murton would just switch, Cedeno/Izturis @ 2b/SS, probably resign Pierre if push comes to shove. Wouldnt be suprised to see them deal for someone like Teahen for 3B. Not as many holes as you think.

 

Theres a good Japanese League 3B that is going to be posted as well, with a low posting fee. The Cubs could gobble him up.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(MarlinFan84 @ Nov 5, 2006 -> 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LF/RF-Murton, Carlos Lee I heard wants to play for the Cubbies, so Murton would just switch, Cedeno/Izturis @ 2b/SS, probably resign Pierre if push comes to shove. Wouldnt be suprised to see them deal for someone like Teahen for 3B. Not as many holes as you think.

 

Theres a good Japanese League 3B that is going to be posted as well, with a low posting fee. The Cubs could gobble him up.

 

 

 

How the hell are they getting Teahen? Are you just throwing names out there? Why would the Royals deal Teahen? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

[qwerty]

So many ignorant ( and you guys like to say) things have been said in this thread. Would take far too long desecting each particular thing that is simply rediculous. I hate when people back their point to no end without even giving the other sides point of view a thought.

[DBAHO]

How the hell are they getting Teahen? Are you just throwing names out there? Why would the Royals deal Teahen? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Maybe because uber prospect Alex Gordon is almost ready, Teahen's value is pretty high and Dayton Moore wants to build the team around young power arms?

 

Don't be so quick to jump down everyone's thoughts.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 6, 2006 -> 05:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe because uber prospect Alex Gordon is almost ready, Teahen's value is pretty high and Dayton Moore wants to build the team around young power arms?

 

Don't be so quick to jump down everyone's thoughts.

 

And what young power arms are the Cubs giving up for Teahen? Not jumping down anyone's thoughts. It just seems a bit remarkable to me that this guy seems to be finally coming around and has finally developed and they are now looking to trade him? Alex Gordon is most definitely ready and he is awesome defensively as well. However, they can play both of them. They can put Teahen (a 25 year old left handed bat who is making near minimum) in LF and play Gordon at 3B. There is no reason at all for them to trade Teahen. It just doesn't make sense.

[Flash Tizzle]

LOLLERZ

 

Hope J.D. Drew and Aramis Ramirez have taught MLB clubs a valuable lesson about negotiating escape clauses within a contract.

[SoxFan562004]

good article, it shows the Cubs losing A-Ram kind of put them up a creek. They have to now get 2-3 bats, a closer and at least two starting pitchers. I know they have a huge payroll, but that's going to be hard to pull together. I think now they'll get Soriano, they are kind of boxed in the corner to sign him, Lee or trade for Ramirez, and the smart baseball move out of those 3 IMO is Soriano.

[G&T]

The bidding closed today on Iwamura. I have to imagine the Cubs placed a sizable bid on him.

[daa84]

cubs just resigned ramirez at 5 years 70 million....resigned wood too