Let's Rekindle the Crawford Talks

[Rowand44]

I see lots of money talk, so I am curious exactly where people are thinking the Sox 2007 payroll is going to settle out?

I'd guess around 110. IIRC we have about 95 tied up already on about 20ish players. It's not just money here with Brandon, if I thought he was just going to be an average pitcher I'd trade him in a heartbeat for Crawford, but I don't, I think he's going to be a 1 or 2 starter in this league(ya I know everyone disagrees). That and with Freddy and Buehrle being free agents after this season we need to have a cheap starter that's locked up for a while and Brandon is.

[ZoomSlowik]

I'd guess around 110. IIRC we have about 95 tied up already on about 20ish players. It's not just money here with Brandon, if I thought he was just going to be an average pitcher I'd trade him in a heartbeat for Crawford, but I don't, I think he's going to be a 1 or 2 starter in this league(ya I know everyone disagrees). That and with Freddy and Buehrle being free agents after this season we need to have a cheap starter that's locked up for a while and Brandon is.

 

I'm pretty sure our total committed money is higher than that. As I posted a little while ago, we're at $87.8 with just 11 players, and that doesn't count Crede's arbitration total. That will probably push it up by at least $5 mil all on its own. Plus Mack is another $2.75, and you got several other league minimum-types to consider. Our total committed money is probably closer to 100 million with a few open roster spots remaining.

Edited November 2, 2006 by ZoomSlowik

[Rowand44]

The big line I have seen the last few weeks is "The Sox have 99 million tied into 12 players going into 2007..."

I see the Sox with a payroll around $115, but I still think one of the starters has to be moved.

Ok, so I was a little bit off, THE POINT IS we have a lot of money tied up already.

[ZoomSlowik]

The big line I have seen the last few weeks is "The Sox have 99 million tied into 12 players going into 2007..."

I see the Sox with a payroll around $115, but I still think one of the starters has to be moved.

 

That doesn't really make sense unless you don't count the money we're getting to defray the cost of Thome and Vazquez. That would subtract like $8.5 mil from that total, dropping it to like $91 for those guys...

Edited November 2, 2006 by ZoomSlowik

[RME JICO]

Here is the Payroll with best guess estimates for the Arb players:

 

2007 Payroll
 

M. Buehrle  -  9.5

J. Conteras -  9.0

J. Garland  - 10.0

J. Vazquez  - 12.5

F. Garcia   - 10.0*

B. McCarthy -  0.5

M. MacDougal-  1.5 Arb

M. Thornton -  1.5 Arb

N. Cotts    -  0.5 

C. Haeger   -  0.4

B. Jenks    -  0.5

D. Hermanson-  0.5 Buyout

Total       -$56.4
 

A. Pierzynski- 5.50

P. Konerko   -12.00

T. Iguchi    - 3.25

J. Uribe     - 4.15

J. Crede     - 5.00 Arb

J. Thome     -14.00

J. Dye       - 6.50

B. Anderson  - 0.50

LF           - ???

Total        -$50.9
 

P. Ozuna     - 0.60

R. Mackowiak - 2.75

R. Gload     - 0.75 Arb

A. Cintron   - 2.0* Arb

Backup C     - ???

Total        -$6.1
 

Team Total   - $113.4 w/2 positions open (LF, Backup Catcher)
 

Vazquez/Thome- $9 Million, estimated savings from trades applied to 2007
 

Final Total  - $104.4 w/2 positions open (LF, Backup Catcher)
 

Subtract Cintron and Garcia = $92.4 with 4 positions to fill (LF, RHP, Catcher, Infielder)

 

So if the Sox had a $110 Million Payroll for 2007, that would leave almost $18 Million for the 4 positions listed above, with only one of them starting (LF).

[RME JICO]

Nice chart RME.

 

However, any reason Cintron is off the list, or just because you think he will be traded?

 

He probably will stay around, but I figured if the Sox were looking to drop some payroll and bring up someone from the system, they could save there. Ozuna and Gload are cheap, so I figure they will be back. Mackowiak is another option if the Sox find something cheaper. If you throw Cotts in there, that would make 5 openings at the very most for 2007, and only one starter (LF). That seems very reasonable with the payroll.

[RockRaines]

I hope we dont unload Cintron, he was one of the more clutch performers on the team last year.

[southsideirish71]

I think what we will all find out at the end is that KW will try to turn whatever tradeable assets we have, including one of the Buerhle, Freddy, Vazquez group, into some younger pitching. He was sniffing around Baltimore a bit last year with bedard in the offseason, and with Cabrera in the trade deadline time. Bedard will be almost unatainable, but a guy like Cabrera is something in KW's ilk, great arms no control. A guy with phenominal stuff, but has problems getting the best out of it. This is what KW is famous for. After last years debacle KW realizes more than anything that pitching is the key ingrediant, not offense. He is also trying to build a repeatable champion. Something that gets refreshed throughout the years. Trading guys for cusp prospects that may need a change of scenery. I think that KW will wind up shocking us with some arms more than bats this offseason.

Edited November 2, 2006 by southsideirish71

[RME JICO]

Thats what I figured. I think out of Mack and Cintron, Mack goes, but I could see Cintron moving as well.

 

Nice chart. I can't wait for things to really get going....

 

Yeah I know, as the temperatures drop the Hot Stove heats up.

 

I think what we will all find out at the end is that KW will try to turn whatever tradeable assets we have, including one of the Buerhle, Freddy, Vazquez group, into some younger pitching. He was sniffing around Baltimore a bit last year with bedard in the offseason, and with Cabrera in the trade deadline time. Bedard will be almost unatainable, but a guy like Cabrera is something in KW's ilk, great arms no control. A guy with phenominal stuff, but has problems getting the best out of it. This is what KW is famous for. After last years debacle KW realizes more than anything that pitching is the key ingrediant, not offense. He is also trying to build a repeatable champion. Something that gets refreshed throughout the years. Trading guys for cusp prospects that may need a change of scenery. I think that KW will wind up shocking us with some arms more than bats this offseason.

I agree. KW is becoming a master at these type acquisitions. Jenks, Thornton and MacDougal were classic KW.

[GreatScott82]

Rick Hahn was on the score yesterday and he pretty much confirmed that BMac WILL be in the rotation next year. He also confirmed that one of the starters will be traded to make room for him. So unless TB wants Contreras, Vazquez or Garcia we WONT get Crawford. As talented as Crawford is, this team doesn't need him to get to the next level.

WHat I expect to happen based on reading articles and from your awesome money charts is for KW to trade Garcia (whome has the highest value out of the 3 I mentioned) and most likely Uribe as his defense attracts many teams around the league for a guy like Michael Young (a guy Hahn, KW and Ozzie absolutely LOVE). Texas needs pitching also and with a defensive shortstop who is cabable of hitting 20+ HRs a season they wouldn't be getting screwed from this deal in any stretch of the imagination.

From there they can FINALLY plug BMac into the rotation and then go ahead and sign either Pierre or Roberts to fill that LF/lead off role that we missed last season.

Hmmm but what will they do with Pods?!? I truley believe KW can find a solid reliever for him. Many teams are desperate for a speedy OFer. And despite his 2006 dissapointing season, many teams will show interest in him this offseason.

From there they can find one more reliever via free agency and we shall be set.

 

Your 2007 White Sox:

Pierre or Roberts LF

Young SS

Dye RF

Thome DH

Konerko 1B

Iguchi 2B

Crede 3B

AJ C

Anderson CF

Rotation: Buerhle, Garland, Contreras, Vazquez, McCarthy

Bullpen: Jenks, Mac, Thorton, Cotts, (reliever for Pods) (reliever free agency or Haegar)

Bench: Pretty much the same. We may see Cintron be apart of a deal also, then KW can bring Willy Harris back. As then Willy Harris can bring GROUP 4 back!

 

Thats what i expect to happen and im sticking to it

GO SOX in 2007

Edited November 2, 2006 by GreatScott82

[Chisoxfn]

Rick Hahn was on the score yesterday and he pretty much confirmed that BMac WILL be in the rotation next year. He also confirmed that one of the starters will be traded to make room for him. So unless TB wants Contreras, Vazquez or Garcia we WONT get Crawford. As talented as Crawford is, this team doesn't need him to get to the next level.

WHat I expect to happen based on reading articles and from your awesome money charts is for KW to trade Garcia (whome has the highest value out of the 3 I mentioned) and most likely Uribe as his defense attracts many teams around the league for a guy like Michael Young (a guy Hahn, KW and Ozzie absolutely LOVE). Texas needs pitching also and with a defensive shortstop who is cabable of hitting 20+ HRs a season they wouldn't be getting screwed from this deal in any stretch of the imagination.

From there they can FINALLY plug BMac into the rotation and then go ahead and sign either Pierre or Roberts to fill that LF/lead off role that we missed last season.

Hmmm but what will they do with Pods?!? I truley believe KW can find a solid reliever for him. Many teams are desperate for a speedy OFer. And despite his 2006 dissapointing season, many teams will show interest in him this offseason.

From there they can find one more reliever via free agency and we shall be set.

 

Your 2007 White Sox:

Pierre or Roberts LF

Young SS

Dye RF

Thome DH

Konerko 1B

Iguchi 2B

Crede 3B

AJ C

Anderson CF

Rotation: Buerhle, Garland, Contreras, Vazquez, McCarthy

Bullpen: Jenks, Mac, Thorton, Cotts, (reliever for Pods) (reliever free agency or Haegar)

Bench: Pretty much the same. We may see Cintron be apart of a deal also, then KW can bring Willy Harris back. As then Willy Harris can bring GROUP 4 back!

 

Thats what i expect to happen and im sticking to it

GO SOX in 2007

Not awful, but I think I'd want to get a prospect back in that deal of Garcia and Uribe for Young. I like Michael Young a lot but for us to give up one of our top veteran pitchers without getting a good pitching prospect back concerns me. That said if we signed Roberts or Pierre that would be a very nice 1-2 with either and Young.

 

I still prefer a top of the order that includes Crawford but I'd have no complaints with that lineup.

[tpezz27]

Rick Hahn was on the score yesterday and he pretty much confirmed that BMac WILL be in the rotation next year. He also confirmed that one of the starters will be traded to make room for him. So unless TB wants Contreras, Vazquez or Garcia we WONT get Crawford. As talented as Crawford is, this team doesn't need him to get to the next level.

WHat I expect to happen based on reading articles and from your awesome money charts is for KW to trade Garcia (whome has the highest value out of the 3 I mentioned) and most likely Uribe as his defense attracts many teams around the league for a guy like Michael Young (a guy Hahn, KW and Ozzie absolutely LOVE). Texas needs pitching also and with a defensive shortstop who is cabable of hitting 20+ HRs a season they wouldn't be getting screwed from this deal in any stretch of the imagination.

From there they can FINALLY plug BMac into the rotation and then go ahead and sign either Pierre or Roberts to fill that LF/lead off role that we missed last season.

Hmmm but what will they do with Pods?!? I truley believe KW can find a solid reliever for him. Many teams are desperate for a speedy OFer. And despite his 2006 dissapointing season, many teams will show interest in him this offseason.

From there they can find one more reliever via free agency and we shall be set.

 

Your 2007 White Sox:

Pierre or Roberts LF

Young SS

Dye RF

Thome DH

Konerko 1B

Iguchi 2B

Crede 3B

AJ C

Anderson CF

Rotation: Buerhle, Garland, Contreras, Vazquez, McCarthy

Bullpen: Jenks, Mac, Thorton, Cotts, (reliever for Pods) (reliever free agency or Haegar)

Bench: Pretty much the same. We may see Cintron be apart of a deal also, then KW can bring Willy Harris back. As then Willy Harris can bring GROUP 4 back!

 

Thats what i expect to happen and im sticking to it

GO SOX in 2007

 

 

Micheal Young is an absolute stud....I think it would be a miracle if we were able to get him for Garcia and Uribe....

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4566

Edited November 2, 2006 by tpezz27

[Soxfest]

BM ...............NO! FG or JV YES

[beck72]

The sox shouldn't and won't pay $2.75 mill to a 4th OFer. Esp one that can't play CF. Mack will probably be traded. With Sweeney around to fill in if someone goes down, Mack is expendable. Cintron is more valuable as he can play three IF spots.

[FlaCWS]

You got anything to back up your opinion? Crawford is only 25, is an all around player, and is the exact kind of hitter the Sox need in the lineup. McCarthy is still unproven and to tell you the truth he didn't look all that great last year.

 

I agree you can't trade McCarthy. He wasn't great this year but he's still very young and you can't give up on a pitching talent like that. There just isn't enough pitching to go around in this league.

 

As for something to back up that opinion... how about a World Series title in 2005? Am I the only one who remembers it at this point? Pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching...

[CanOfCorn]

The sox shouldn't and won't pay $2.75 mill to a 4th OFer. Esp one that can't play CF. Mack will probably be traded. With Sweeney around to fill in if someone goes down, Mack is expendable. Cintron is more valuable as he can play three IF spots.

 

Yes they should, because he can play 3B, 2B, the corner outfield spots and is a LHB. Ozzie players that give him flexibility (see: Cintron, Ozuna, even Gload).

[RME JICO]

WHat I expect to happen based on reading articles and from your awesome money charts is for KW to trade Garcia (whome has the highest value out of the 3 I mentioned) and most likely Uribe as his defense attracts many teams around the league for a guy like Michael Young (a guy Hahn, KW and Ozzie absolutely LOVE). Texas needs pitching also and with a defensive shortstop who is cabable of hitting 20+ HRs a season they wouldn't be getting screwed from this deal in any stretch of the imagination.

 

Yeah, that would actually be a great deal for Texas too.

 

Adding Young and someone like Roberts for Uribe and Podsednik would be sweet.

 

The only thing that would mess something like that up would be the salaries. Young is only due $3.5 for 2007, while Garcia and Uribe would make $14.15. That is a $10.65 difference. Hard to see someone like Texas taking that much salary on.

[Chisoxfn]

Yes they should, because he can play 3B, 2B, the corner outfield spots and is a LHB. Ozzie players that give him flexibility (see: Cintron, Ozuna, even Gload).

The thing is we didn't play him at 3B or 2B. We now have Sweeney and Josh Fields who could potentially grab that spot. Plus we are going to have a new everyday CFer so I think Cintron is more valuable because he can play 3B, SS, and 2B plus we have Pablo who is capable of the same plus play some pathetic OF.

[redandwhite]

Michael Young is one of the best hitters in the league. As bad as the Rangers and any team for that matter need top quality pitching, they won't trade such a vocal point of the team for Freddy Garcia and the worthless Juan Uribe.

 

You know my stance on Uribe, he's a negative to this deal from Texas' perspective.

[RockRaines]

You know my stance on Uribe, he's a negative to this deal from Texas' perspective.

Was your stance that he should have two gold gloves by now? Wait, that was roto.

[beck72]

Yes they should, because he can play 3B, 2B, the corner outfield spots and is a LHB. Ozzie players that give him flexibility (see: Cintron, Ozuna, even Gload).

The only spot Mack played with any regularity was LF and CF. They had the chance to play him at 3b and 2b but went to Cintron instead. Seeing how he won't be playing much CF, Mack's value is far less. He made sense for a team trying to repeat as WS champs. But my take is the sox will go with a glove first 4th OFer, who can make near the minimum [ala Terrero]. That way, the sox can upgrade a starter at SS, LF or CF with the salary difference.

 

Cintron showed he can play 3 spots. The sox will probably pay him his $2 + mill salary. But Mack should be dealt, probably to a NL team who can use him at the spots he played in Pittsburgh [seeing how bad the Pirates had been, that's probably the reason he played so many spots---the other guys were horrible].

[witesoxfan]

Michael Young is one of the best hitters in the league. As bad as the Rangers and any team for that matter need top quality pitching, they won't trade such a vocal point of the team for Freddy Garcia and the worthless Juan Uribe.

 

You know my stance on Uribe, he's a negative to this deal from Texas' perspective.

 

Getting a gold glove defensive SS and a #3 starting pitcher for a mediocre defensive SS who's a good hitter on a team packed with good hitters...something isn't clicking there as far as I'm concerned.

 

Daniels would take Garcia for Young, and that I'm entirely sure of. I don't think KW would - not because Young wouldn't be a great addition to the Sox, but because the Sox have much bigger needs than SS or 2B.

[bmags]

isn't the rangers GM like 30 years old?

[fathom]

Getting a gold glove defensive SS and a #3 starting pitcher for a mediocre defensive SS who's a good hitter on a team packed with good hitters...something isn't clicking there as far as I'm concerned.

 

Daniels would take Garcia for Young, and that I'm entirely sure of. I don't think KW would - not because Young wouldn't be a great addition to the Sox, but because the Sox have much bigger needs than SS or 2B.

 

The nicest way I can put it is that I severely disagree with this post.

[witesoxfan]

The nicest way I can put it is that I severely disagree with this post.

 

As in KW would take Garcia for Young, or that Daniels would not take Garcia for Young, or both? Just curious, of course