Balta1701 Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 8, 2006 -> 01:25 PM) A bunch of people are willing to trade 2 starters and live with him in our rotation as a 5th starter. I'm sorry but thats unacceptable to me. We want to win, I can live with breaking in Bmac but breaking in Bmac and Haeger well thats just not a way to win (unless you get lucky). I have no major problem with using him as our LAST guy out of the pen. It all depends on what you get with that extra starter you trade and $20 million freed up. If that turns into long term deals for Crede, Buehrle, Iguchi, and, oh let's say Soriano, and you turn both of those starting pitchers into something dynamite (Say you get Pelfrey, IIRC you were the one who loved him) plus a couple of other solid position player prospects...that puts you in a damn good spot for a long, long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 8, 2006 -> 04:25 PM) A bunch of people are willing to trade 2 starters and live with him in our rotation as a 5th starter. I'm sorry but thats unacceptable to me. We want to win, I can live with breaking in Bmac but breaking in Bmac and Haeger well thats just not a way to win (unless you get lucky). I have no major problem with using him as our LAST guy out of the pen. You were responding to a post about using him out of the pen. I understand the reluctance to use two first-time starters. A lot of uncertainty there, okay. But I think there's also a lot of plain anti-knuckler opposition, and that I don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Nov 8, 2006 -> 03:58 PM) You were responding to a post about using him out of the pen. I understand the reluctance to use two first-time starters. A lot of uncertainty there, okay. But I think there's also a lot of plain anti-knuckler opposition, and that I don't understand. chicks dig the heat nothing else matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I never cared much for Riske this past season. So it wouldn't disappoint me if he goes elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 8, 2006 -> 03:56 PM) It all depends on what you get with that extra starter you trade and $20 million freed up. If that turns into long term deals for Crede, Buehrle, Iguchi, and, oh let's say Soriano, and you turn both of those starting pitchers into something dynamite (Say you get Pelfrey, IIRC you were the one who loved him) plus a couple of other solid position player prospects...that puts you in a damn good spot for a long, long time. How does that help us next year? If we have 2 rookies starting in our rotation, we are in 3rd place no matter how many runs we score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 8, 2006 -> 05:24 PM) How does that help us next year? If we have 2 rookies starting in our rotation, we are in 3rd place no matter how many runs we score. Liriano, Baker, Bonser, and Garza say hi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 8, 2006 -> 07:24 PM) How does that help us next year? If we have 2 rookies starting in our rotation, we are in 3rd place no matter how many runs we score. The Sox would have 3 good starters(3 of the 5 would be good, and I think you can pretty much count on that), along with a better offensive club due to the freed money as well as a deeper and more reliable bullpen...I think it'd help us. Now, if you're not getting Pelfrey, then you can't trade 2 starters. So basically what I'm saying is that 2 starters really won't be traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 8, 2006 -> 07:33 PM) Liriano, Baker, Bonser, and Garza say hi. Did you really think that was a good comparison? We dont have anyone that touches Santana, and Liriano would be our Ace. QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 9, 2006 -> 01:45 AM) The Sox would have 3 good starters(3 of the 5 would be good, and I think you can pretty much count on that), along with a better offensive club due to the freed money as well as a deeper and more reliable bullpen...I think it'd help us. Now, if you're not getting Pelfrey, then you can't trade 2 starters. So basically what I'm saying is that 2 starters really won't be traded. Our pitching needs to improve, not our offense. 2006 should have taught you how much more important pitching is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2006 -> 07:58 AM) Did you really think that was a good comparison? We dont have anyone that touches Santana, and Liriano would be our Ace. Our pitching needs to improve, not our offense. 2006 should have taught you how much more important pitching is. Yes, I think that is a very good comparison. You're saying a team can't get by with more than 1 rookie starter. But look at the whole spectrum, the Twins had Santana, Silva, and Radke pitching last year to go along with those rookies, which towards the end of the season became Santana and Silva with no Liriano. And the White Sox have a much better offense, who can pick pitchers up out of a hole a lot easier. Even if the White Sox run with McCarthy and Haeger both in the rotation next year, there's still 3 veteran pitchers sitting at the top of it, and there's still backup plans sitting at AAA in Broadway and whoever we were to get by trading 2 starters. And we'd be sitting on a cool $20 million or so that we'd have freed up. It's not my preferred option...but if teams start throwing out the farm to try to get starting pitching, which we do have, I wouldn't turn my back on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2006 -> 09:58 AM) Our pitching needs to improve, not our offense. 2006 should have taught you how much more important pitching is. And the pitching wouldn't improve in that scenario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 8, 2006 -> 05:33 PM) Liriano, Baker, Bonser, and Garza say hi. They did not start the season with all of them in the rotation. Nor do we have any pitching prospect that is up there with them. How often does a rookie come in and dominate like Liriano did. I know both him and Weaver came in and kicked butt this year but its insanely rare for rookies to come in and absolutely dominante (or in Liriano's case be a frontrunner for Cy Young). Garza was only in the rotation the very latter half of the year and the same goes for Bonser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 a better example maybe? what about the marlins yes its the NL but they broke in Olsen, Nolasco, Johnson, even though Nolasco was eventually replaced by Sanchez. I think we could break in McCarthy and Haeger in '07 and still be just as competitive as we were in '06, if not more so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 QUOTE(beautox @ Nov 9, 2006 -> 11:33 AM) a better example maybe? what about the marlins yes its the NL but they broke in Olsen, Nolasco, Johnson, even though Nolasco was eventually replaced by Sanchez. I think we could break in...Haeger in '07 and still be just as competitive as we were in '06, if not more so. Haeger will not be in the rotation, so that thought can be forgotten. If there are two "rookies" in the rotation - seeing as how McCarthy is not a rookie to the MLB but rather just the rotation - it would be McCarthy and Pelfrey or someone of the ilk who can be dominant night in and night out. Haeger is a swingman, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 QUOTE(beautox @ Nov 9, 2006 -> 11:33 AM) a better example maybe? what about the marlins yes its the NL but they broke in Olsen, Nolasco, Johnson, even though Nolasco was eventually replaced by Sanchez. I think we could break in McCarthy and Haeger in '07 and still be just as competitive as we were in '06, if not more so. The Marlins also went 78-84 in the National League. Because they were rebuilding it was considered a success. A team going for a ring has much higher expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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