supernuke Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Wow, 16 pages on what I see as a ho-hum trade. I really don't see the Sox any better or worse off after this deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 09:51 PM) Quick point here. A reliever in the NL with a 4.08 ERA and a 1.30 WHIP is not a good season. Of course not. Let's not be intentionally obtuse. His one great year shows that he can, at least under some circumstances pitch very well in the majors. I don't know if he'll ever do that again. But there is more evidence that he will, than this Aardsma character who hasn't shown a thing. Oh yeah, except for that one good month! Huh? Put the crack pipe down. And what's your support? A radar gun reading and the fact that you watched him pitch a few times and you like his makeup? My opinion is based on what he's actually done and not done on the field. Not true. It's an above average season. That is, better than most players. Much better than most rookies. And much, much better than Cotts's rookie season. You say we shouldn't ignore bad seasons, but then you refuse to discuss anything but 2005. Makes sense. My opinion comes very little from what I've seen, because, as I was very clear about, it isn't much. I'm going mostly off a solid rookie season plus consistent performances in the minors. You're going off the fact that Aardsma's rookie season isn't as good as Cotts's best season. Taking the best season is just a silly way to evaluate a player, and especially a reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurlyMan56 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Starting off, this may or may not be a bad trade. What irritates me is the fact that Kenny may have pulled the trigger a little early on this one. With lefties like Jamie Walker getting 3 years 12 mil..Teams that need that lefty outta the pen who couldn't get it through free agency may have inquired about Cotts later on...Thus, giving us the tools to get more... Does Cotts make below 1 mil? I feel Cotts would definetly better and an obvious bargain when there's Jamie Walker's out there gettin 4. Not upset with Cotts getting traded, just thought a desperate team might give up more later on for a young lefty guy that a year ago posted an ERA under 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I still dont know if I should like this trade or not. Cotts is a young LHP and I thought he would be more valuable for us next year if we give him a chance to bounce back. Teams are after LHP and I dont think Boone will be better than Cotts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(BurlyMan56 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 09:41 PM) Starting off, this may or may not be a bad trade. What irritates me is the fact that Kenny may have pulled the trigger a little early on this one. With lefties like Jamie Walker getting 3 years 12 mil..Teams that need that lefty outta the pen who couldn't get it through free agency may have inquired about Cotts later on...Thus, giving us the tools to get more... Does Cotts make below 1 mil? I feel Cotts would definetly better and an obvious bargain when there's Jamie Walker's out there gettin 4. Not upset with Cotts getting traded, just thought a desperate team might give up more later on for a young lefty guy that a year ago posted an ERA under 2. People like Jaime walker get lefties out. That is the big difference between a LOOGY and Cotts. For everyone who is basing their memories off the of WS DVD and commemerative pin set, watch a few times when Ozzie summoned Cotts from the pen and he got b**** slapped in a crucial game. Mauer is probably upset that he cant hit some more backbreaking jacks of Mr. one pitch anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Do not understand this trade at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(Soxfest @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 10:15 PM) Do not understand this trade at all. Still destroyed by the release of Timo also I am sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 After reading this thread, a few points .... 1. We don't know who the 'real' Neal Cotts is yet. 2. Don Cooper is a decent pitching coach, but he's no Johnny Sain. Let's get a grip on reality folks. 3. Aardsma is young and hasn't had as many opportunities to succeed as Cotts has. Let's see what happens. 4. Cotts, after last year, is as much of a question mark as Aardsma. Either one could have a 5.25 ERA or a 3.25 ERA next year. 5. Cotts has value as a lefty. However, after last year, do you want to see Cotts come in to face Travis Hafner with 2 on and 2 out? 6. You can't teach 'heat'. Aardsma has more than Cotts. 7. Vasquez is a wildcard in all this that may turn out to be a decent pick up in addition to Aardsma. There are risks involved in any trade. Williams has examined his team and has a plan. This is the first step in that plan. He has, I'm sure, received input from his scouts on both acquired pitchers. Cotts, as far as the Sox are concerned, is a known quantity after 3 full seasons in the bigs. This trade is not one that can be legitimately panned or cheered at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinningUgly85 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 11:18 PM) After reading this thread, a few points .... 1. We don't know who the 'real' Neal Cotts is yet. 2. Don Cooper is a decent pitching coach, but he's no Johnny Sain. Let's get a grip on reality folks. 3. Aardsma is young and hasn't had as many opportunities to succeed as Cotts has. Let's see what happens. 4. Cotts, after last year, is as much of a question mark as Aardsma. Either one could have a 5.25 ERA or a 3.25 ERA next year. 5. Cotts has value as a lefty. However, after last year, do you want to see Cotts come in to face Travis Hafner with 2 on and 2 out? 6. You can't teach 'heat'. Aardsma has more than Cotts. 7. Vasquez is a wildcard in all this that may turn out to be a decent pick up in addition to Aardsma. There are risks involved in any trade. Williams has examined his team and has a plan. This is the first step in that plan. He has, I'm sure, received input from his scouts on both acquired pitchers. Cotts, as far as the Sox are concerned, is a known quantity after 3 full seasons in the bigs. This trade is not one that can be legitimately panned or cheered at this point. Well put Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 08:56 PM) And Cotts is a lefty. Ozzie, is that you?? HOORAY APPENDAGE BALL!! His handed ness means nothing, the talent does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 12:50 AM) Ozzie, is that you?? HOORAY APPENDAGE BALL!! His handed ness means nothing, the talent does. On one level, you are correct. However, lefties in general do get more of a shot and are more in demand. Therefore, that particular appendage does have an influence on perceived or potential value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxHawk1980 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Ozzie, is that you?? HOORAY APPENDAGE BALL!! His handed ness means nothing, the talent does. Follow baseball long? Lefty pitchers have more value than righty pitchers of the same talent level by virtue of their relative scarcity. It affects their salary and their trade value. So it had a lot of relevance to this deal and whether KW got enough for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 09:03 PM) Not true. It's an above average season. That is, better than most players. Much better than most rookies. And much, much better than Cotts's rookie season. He only had a 114 era+ this past season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 12:57 AM) On one level, you are correct. However, lefties in general do get more of a shot and are more in demand. Therefore, that particular appendage does have an influence on perceived or potential value. Well yeah, but this is an average relief pitcher. Relief pitchers, outside of the really good ones, don't have any value at all, as has been proven as long as the day is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 The thing I like most is Guillen has one less lefty righty option. It is harder to hit a straight 96 MPH fastball then a hanging slider. When a reliever comes in and needs a strikeout because there are men on base he must have a good fastball. That is my thought. Neither of these guys is good at throwing strikes. Aardesma is a more stuff guy and in the scheme of our pen, I actully am starting to warm to this trade. As for Coop, here is the theory. Work fast and throw f***ing strikes. That's it. If this guy can do that, we are set in the pen. Also in the Trib, Reynoso and Logan are the lefties that will replace Cotts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 08:56 PM) ...who has actually had some major league success. And Cotts is a lefty. ONE season. Shingo had one good season too, was it a mistake to let him go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 eh who knows..maybe this ardesma dude can be a surprise and he can be a key piece to our pen. I guess KW's rationale behind this move is 'we already have Thorton, who has proven to be our lefty set-up man' Cotts was a key ingrediant to that dominant bullpen in 2005, however i don't wish him luck as he will now be relieving on the North Side.. gross! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 08:58 AM) Well yeah, but this is an average relief pitcher. Relief pitchers, outside of the really good ones, don't have any value at all, as has been proven as long as the day is. Jesse Orasco wasn't exactly graet, but he pitched till he was almost 50 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 One interesting thing to note... A top Japanese lefty reliever is going to be posted real soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 12:58 PM) One interesting thing to note... A top Japanese lefty reliever is going to be posted real soon... Good point. The Cubs have been mentioned often with him, but KW just might be flying under the radar here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 12:58 PM) One interesting thing to note... A top Japanese lefty reliever is going to be posted real soon... Igawa is a starter. Cliff Lee is a good comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 IMO I think that Vazquez is the real reason this deal was made... For some reason I think that he is going to be a good pick-up for us in the long run and IMO be much better then either Cotts or Ardy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 His name is spelled "Vasquez." Easy to remember: Vasquez s=steroids Javy Vazquez z= zoloft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 12:58 PM) One interesting thing to note... A top Japanese lefty reliever is going to be posted real soon... The Cubs are trying to make a deal for Westbrook that involves Eyre, most feel that is why they did this. QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 09:38 AM) ONE season. Shingo had one good season too, was it a mistake to let him go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 ^lol^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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