ptatc Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 11:52 AM) Don't like it at all, I think KW just sold low on Cotts. Do you mthink KW took the worst trade he could find? There were rumors Cotts was on the block and I'm going to believe that KW got the best deal he could. We may value Cotts higher but obviously GMs in MLB didn't. Now the big question is why they felt he needed to be traded. I suspect this will be the beginning of a group of deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 It's going to be tough for Cotts to duplicate his 2005 success without a second pitch. Even in his dominance during 2005, that was all with his "sneaky" fastball. He located well and got hitters to chase sometimes, but as I said, it'll be tough for him to dominate with a 91 MPH fastball, funky delivery or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who cares if Aardsma throws hard, is it really a plus having four guys in the bullpen whose out pitch is bringing heat? The fact of the matter is the White Sox, had they been patient, could have gotten more for Cotts than they got here. I never thought I'd see the day, but regardless of the outcome here, it seems like the Cubs got the better of the deal. Ugh. Who cares? This was the same thing that was said about Thornton when we acquired him last year. What good is Cotts if his manager has zero confidence in him and his "sneaky" fastball ain't so "sneaky?" I think this trade is even for both sides, but I don't know why the Cubs would acquire another lefty, and why the Sox would rid themselves of a lefty unless they are signing Walker or Kelly Wunsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 10:03 AM) Who cares if Aardsma throws hard, is it really a plus having four guys in the bullpen whose out pitch is bringing heat? The fact of the matter is the White Sox, had they been patient, could have gotten more for Cotts than they got here. I never thought I'd see the day, but regardless of the outcome here, it seems like the Cubs got the better of the deal. Ugh. Out of the bullpen, yes, fire is damn useful. We saw that repeatedly last year. Having people who can come out and just get strikeouts is maybe the best thing you can have in your bullpen. Well, I guess this is a strong suggestion, although not a certainty, that Logan will be getting his shot for real next year. Throw some f***ing strikes Booney. Hopefully this Aardsma was another guy that Cooper asked for as well. But yeah, it's again hard to believe we couldn't get more for Cotts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 01:07 PM) I don't buy this starter idea at all. Simply put, he fell out of favor with the Sox with the way he pitched the last half of the season last year, and KW knew he wouldn't be on the roster this season. What I find troubling is that we give up on a young guy after one bad season. I guess KW thinks the league figured him out and he won't/can't return to 2005 form. I tend to disagree and believe that Cotts will really be solid out of the pen again very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 06:08 PM) It's going to be tough for Cotts to duplicate his 2005 success without a second pitch. Even in his dominance during 2005, that was all with his "sneaky" fastball. He located well and got hitters to chase sometimes, but as I said, it'll be tough for him to dominate with a 91 MPH fastball, funky delivery or not. A high fastball pitcher allowing only one homer all season is one of the biggest fluke statistics I've ever seen in baseball. A name I haven't heard mentioned as a possible lefty reliever is Ron Villone, who I read earlier was a FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 10:09 AM) What I find troubling is that we give up on a young guy after one bad season. I guess KW thinks the league figured him out and he won't/can't return to 2005 form. I tend to disagree and believe that Cotts will really be solid out of the pen again very soon. Well, the other question you have to ask yourself is whether or not it was time to give up on Cotts, as there was another lefty waiting in the winds in Boone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 06:09 PM) What I find troubling is that we give up on a young guy after one bad season. You might as well copy this statement....you'll be saying it again shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Oh yeah -- what does this mean for the Sox bullpen? It could be one of... a.) Haeger doesn't have a lock on that sixth bullpen spot like everybody thinks. b.) The Sox will give their "David Riske" roll to someone within the organization, such as Oneli Perez or Aardsma. Meaning the Sox won't be going after Speier. c.) The Sox go to to a seven man bullpen even though they haven't done this the past two years (I hate this option). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 01:10 PM) Well, the other question you have to ask yourself is whether or not it was time to give up on Cotts, as there was another lefty waiting in the winds in Boone. Boone, lol, don't get me started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I don't see what's so awful. We got a pitcher with less service time who throws well to lefties (splits were about even last year) and has been pretty consistent in the minors and the bigs. On the other hand... Vasquez was suspended for roiding. So there's that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 01:10 PM) You might as well copy this statement....you'll be saying it again shortly. See Brian Anderson.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 10:11 AM) Boone, lol, don't get me started. As of right now, I think it's time to get started with that, because he's our 2nd lefty until other things drop. And it's not like he was bad at AAA last year either. QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 10:11 AM) On the other hand... Vasquez was suspended for roiding. So there's that... Oh great, another pitcher I am obligated to dislike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 06:10 PM) You might as well copy this statement....you'll be saying it again shortly. Hey, Mr. "Carlos Pena will be our starting 1B-man next season" -- I don't want to see any predictions out of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 06:10 PM) Oh yeah -- what does this mean for the Sox bullpen? It could be one of... a.) Haeger doesn't have a lock on that sixth bullpen spot like everybody thinks. b.) The Sox will give their "David Riske" roll to someone within the organization, such as Oneli Perez or Aardsma. Meaning the Sox won't be going after Speier. c.) The Sox go to to a seven man bullpen even though they haven't done this the past two years (I hate this option). I thought the goal this offseason was for the Sox to make their relief core dominant. At this time, I don't see the possibility for drastic upgrades from last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeFroman Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 At first, this deal made me sick... It had a "Todd Ritchie" feel to it. Then I looked at Cott's numbers: In 2005, Cotts was unhittable from both sides of the plate. Righties hit .115 off him; That jumped to a whopping .314 in 2006. Against lefties he went from .206 to .263. 2006 totals: .291 BA with a .903 OPS. Thats not a guy we want coming out of the bullpen. The way things are situated right now, with Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougal, Cotts was expendable. I have no idea what where getting in return. On that issue, I guess I'll just trust Kenny. I'm quite certain he's earned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 06:12 PM) Hey, Mr. "Carlos Pena will be our starting 1B-man next season" -- I don't want to see any predictions out of you. That was a psychic vision, not an actual prediction. I did have to laugh when he hit the walkoff against us last year though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 10:10 AM) Oh yeah -- what does this mean for the Sox bullpen? It could be one of... a.) Haeger doesn't have a lock on that sixth bullpen spot like everybody thinks. b.) The Sox will give their "David Riske" roll to someone within the organization, such as Oneli Perez or Aardsma. Meaning the Sox won't be going after Speier. c.) The Sox go to to a seven man bullpen even though they haven't done this the past two years (I hate this option). I sure think it looks like B. The only way this trade makes sense is to fill that Riske "3rd short relief righty" role well before the season starts. Haeger still fits pretty darn well into that bullpen, because I don't see anyone else whou could be a long man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 06:13 PM) But keeping Cotts was the way to do that?? No, not at all. I was one of the first on this site during the season last year that said he would be gone. I just thought that we'd use him as a bigger piece of a trade, and I thought we'd be more active in the FA market than it seems we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(AbeFroman @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 10:13 AM) I have no idea what where getting in return. On that issue, I guess I'll just trust Kenny. I'm quite certain he's earned it. Hopefully, there's at least 1 other man helping KW pick out bullpen decisions. Because the last time he did, it seemed to work damn well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 01:12 PM) As of right now, I think it's time to get started with that, because he's our 2nd lefty until other things drop. And it's not like he was bad at AAA last year either. Oh great, another pitcher I am obligated to dislike. If people want to say Cotts has no stuff and just a sneaky fastball with a deceiving motion, what do they have to say about Logan? I saw him late in the year here in Louisville in AAA action and he wasn't impressive at all. He's the prototype of a guy with no stuff and a funky motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 06:14 PM) If people want to say Cotts has no stuff and just a sneaky fastball with a deceiving motion, what do they have to say about Logan? I saw him late in the year here in Louisville in AAA action and he wasn't impressive at all. He's the prototype of a guy with no stuff and a funky motion. Logan's offspeed stuff is twice as good as Neal's was. I think that Logan can be much more effective vs LHP than Cotts was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 10:14 AM) No, not at all. I was one of the first on this site during the season last year that said he would be gone. I just thought that we'd use him as a bigger piece of a trade, and I thought we'd be more active in the FA market than it seems we are. At least so far, the Free Agent market appears to be insanely through the roof, to the point that it's going to be damn hard to find anything that would qualify as a fair deal. That does help this make a bit of sense...if KW decided it was going to be too expensive to find that 2nd righty as a free agent, then you have to make a deal, and with 3 Lefty relievers, one of them seems like a good candidate to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 10:16 AM) Logan's offspeed stuff is twice as good as Neal's was. I think that Logan can be much more effective vs LHP than Cotts was. Funky motions also work damn well, if a.) you throw strikes, and b.) you have no one else in your bullpen like that guy. Logan and Haeger fit in pretty well with a group of 4 fireballers just as a change of pace...the key is for them to throw strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I really don't know what to think of this trade yet, I'm interested to see what Vasquez has to offer. Anyone else think he might make the opening day roster? He did pitchin AAA last year, and he is a lefty..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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