Cotts to the Cubs

[AbeFroman]

Did I just hear that right on the Score, Hendry saying he might think about putting Cotts in the starting rotation?!?!

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

If thats true, thats real bad for cubs fans. Maybe they are already counting themselves out of the off-season pitching madness that is about to ensue.

 

... i was so hoping they signed Gil Meche to a 5 year 45 million dollar deal.

 

edit: also, for what its worth, Aardsma had a 1.72 ERA in he final month of the season. Small sample pool though. He'd have been very good in August as well except for one poor outing against the astros

Edited November 16, 2006 by AbeFroman

[Baines3]

I don't know what to think of this trade. I just got a breaking news e-mail from the White Sox that is how I found out about it. We'll have to see how they do in spring training I guess.

[qwerty]

I know everyone is saying his 2005 season was a fluke... and they may be right... but you have to give the guy a year or two more to officially know if he has the ability to be one of the top lefties in the game.

 

His 2003 numbers with the white sox can be thrown out the window.

 

2004 when he was brought up to the major league club he skipped triple a... and did horrendous as we all know. There are too many players to count that struggle after they are pushed into a role right out of the minors... let alone never having any triple-a experience.

 

I believe his 2004 greatly benefitted his 2005 season. Experience at the major league level... no matter how bad is always a good thing. You can take in all the adjustments that need to be made for the following season... and also pick up on what major league hitters don't let you get away with compared to the minors.

 

In 2006 he had a damn solid first half ( other than the five homeruns he gave up). Second half as we all know he got raped beyond belief ( .420 average against, 7 homers, 14 walks in 17.1 innings).

 

The sox gave up on one of the best lefty relievers for a year and a half stretch because of just 17.1 innings of putrid pitching. 17.1 innings f***ing innings should not be what determines a player. This deal can indeed bite the white sox in the asshole... but i think it will work out for both teams nicely.

 

 

Think again. Aardsma is one of the hardest throwers in the game. In fact I remember John Dujaun on the Score saying he was the hardest thrower for the Cubs (AVG fast ball is around 96 MPH) and Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougall were in the top 10 as well.

 

Maybe acquiring this Vasquez will stop people from spelling Javy's last name incorrectly.

 

96 is fast... don't get me wrong but there are more than ten relievers in the majors who throw a fastball as fast.

 

At first, this deal made me sick... It had a "Todd Ritchie" feel to it.

 

Then I looked at Cott's numbers: In 2005, Cotts was unhittable from both sides of the plate. Righties hit .115 off him; That jumped to a whopping .314 in 2006. Against lefties he went from .206 to .263.

 

2006 totals: .291 BA with a .903 OPS.

 

Thats not a guy we want coming out of the bullpen. The way things are situated right now, with Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougal, Cotts was expendable.

 

I have no idea what where getting in return. On that issue, I guess I'll just trust Kenny. I'm quite certain he's earned it.

 

Righties hit .155 off of cotts in 2005.

 

If people want to say Cotts has no stuff and just a sneaky fastball with a deceiving motion, what do they have to say about Logan?

 

I saw him late in the year here in Louisville in AAA action and he wasn't impressive at all. He's the prototype of a guy with no stuff and a funky motion.

 

Nail was pretty much hit right on the head.

 

 

Especially the bullpen. Honestly, I don't see the bullpen as a huge problem heading into next year. Our top three is as solid as they come. I'd like to see Kenny bring in a reliever from the Asian market, and let that guy compete with Haeger / Perez / Aardsma / Logan for the final three spots.

 

I am actually quite shocked that you would feel alright relying on haeger/perez/logan/japanese reliever ( i strongly do not believe there will be as many successes reliever wise in this batch). I personally will never understand the fascination about haeger. Can you personally explain it? If haeger some how ends up on the roster to start the season i cannot see him being up for anything near a full season.

 

 

I watched Aardsma a few times last year. He was up with the Cubs early in the year, couldn't get the ball over the plate, and was terrible. He came back up later, had better control, and was pretty effective. Somebody quoted Sickels earlier saying he was throwing 88-92 before last year. Not last year. In the games I saw, he threw a lot harder than that, more like mid to upper 90's. And that's taking into account screwed up guns; hitters had a lot of trouble getting on top of his high fastballs. Lots of swinging strikes. If he gets it over, he's certainly better than Riske, maybe a lot better. But that's the big "if."

 

Aardsma lost velocity during the 2005 season while in double-a. Spring training 2006 he quickly regained it and ended up get closer oppurtunities to start the season for triple-a iowa. There was only that small stretch that his velocity dipped. I would not be too worried.

 

More of that high end insight from rotoworld.com or I mean the associated cub fan who writes for mlbtraderumors.com

He didnt lose any stuff. Lets see Neal Cotts was winging a 93 mph fastball in there in 05 and had every batter on their heals because he pitched ahead an stayed ahead.

 

Now every other year outside of 05, Neal would work into hitting counts, and was hitting a 91 mph fastball and little to no secondary pitches. I still remember when he would Rick Ankiel a few into the backstop.

 

These reviews are funny at best. Especially when one of the contributors is a cub fan. You have one year, that is completely differerent than any of their others. Yet lets jump on the one year and ride it into the sunset as the norm instead of the wierd thing.

 

Cotts velocity has been consistent from the day he came up to the majors. There really is no arguement about it. Anyone else recall him topping out at 93... consistently that is... in 2005?

[CanOfCorn]

I saw Aardsma pitch a lot when he was with Rice...well at least in the World Series and he was shutting down batters left and right. I think this is a good 2-fer. Aardsma will be good with a little Coop coaching. Vasquez is a throw in who might not turn out too bad.

 

And someone mentioned something about Kenny Williams "losing his magic" or something like that...EVERY GM has good and bad trades/signings. They all have clunkers. The good thing about Kenny is that he's not afraid to make a tough trade as long as he and the coaching staff are on the same page. That makes him a good GM in my book.

[southsideirish71]

Cotts and Buerhle were equally as bad last year. I think Cotts had a mechanical flaw making him very hittable. If Cooper is such a magician, why not keep Cotts? Aardsma's claim to fame is he is now the first player listed in the Baseball Encyclopedia. Cotts was bad in 2006, but I think he'll rebound, although maybe not as a starter. I think the Sox would have been better off holding on to him and deal him after he had a nice 2007 season.

 

His mechanical flaw is the same mechanical flaw he has had since we picked him up from the As. The latin phrase for it is ....nonthrowusstrikustomuchus. He constantly gets behind every hitter, and then whammo.

 

Cotts was bat in 2004, maybe the oddity was 2005 and he became Neal Cotts again. Like uncle cliffy became the same pitcher that was tossed by the bullpen retarded Blue Jays.

 

He has been in the league for how long and hasnt learned how to throw a decent breaking pitch. I mean come on now.

[fathom]

He'd be their #2 starter if the season started today.

 

Um, no. Rich Hill is much better than Cotts, and I'd rather have a guy like Sean Marshall over him.

 

Cotts and Buerhle were equally as bad last year. I think Cotts had a mechanical flaw making him very hittable. If Cooper is such a magician, why not keep Cotts? Aardsma's claim to fame is he is now the first player listed in the Baseball Encyclopedia. Cotts was bad in 2006, but I think he'll rebound, although maybe not as a starter. I think the Sox would have been better off holding on to him and deal him after he had a nice 2007 season.

 

I believe that KW and Cooper are arrogant, and they believe they can turn any pitcher around. The problem is that while they do have some magic (Thornton, Contreras, etc), we also have seen some pitchers regress and no solution was in sight (Cotts, Buehrle, etc).

[SoxFan1]

I know this has probably been mentioned, but the last time the Cubs and Sox made a deal, we came away with some guy named Garland. I think he turned out OK.

[ptatc]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...ex.jsp?c_id=cws

 

You can't tell me that that arm motion there on the front page by Aardsma won't lead to future injury problems.

Actually that low 3/4 is preferred by many people. It doesn't put too much stress on the shoulder or the elbow. I still personally teach more of an over the top motion but not everyone can throw the same.

[elrockinMT]

He gives up a lot of homers so he will fit right in with the other pitchers on the staff

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

96 is fast... don't get me wrong but there are more than ten relievers in the majors who throw a fastball as fast.

We're not talking about topping speeds, we're talking about the average fast ball.

 

I don't remember the exact numbers, but John Dewon from http://www.baseballinfosolutions.com/ said Jenks, Thornton, MacDougal were all in the top for average fastball speeds, and Aardsma easily had the highest average on the Cubs.

[jackie hayes]

I believe that KW and Cooper are arrogant, and they believe they can turn any pitcher around. The problem is that while they do have some magic (Thornton, Contreras, etc), we also have seen some pitchers regress and no solution was in sight (Cotts, Buehrle, etc).

Could someone please tell me what has to be turned around? We got a guy who in his rookie season pitched above-average baseball, who before that pitched well in the minors every year. It's nothing like Thornton, who just flat sucked in his major league chances. Why does everyone think it'll be some miracle if Aardsma pitches well, when he was doing just that?

[ptatc]

I believe that KW and Cooper are arrogant, and they believe they can turn any pitcher around. The problem is that while they do have some magic (Thornton, Contreras, etc), we also have seen some pitchers regress and no solution was in sight (Cotts, Buehrle, etc).

 

That can be said for about 100% of the managers/coaches in the league. In all sports for that matter but moreso in baseball. I've done it myself after biomechanical analysis of a pitcher after a lab session. That's why players with "potential" bounce from team to team because everyone knows they can fix them.

 

I think your example of MB is premature. He has had only one bad year. Cotts on the other hand has a history of control problems they ironed out for a year. I think they got what they could for him and I'll bet there was some differences between Cooper/Staff and Cotts on either how or what to throw. that may explain the reason to dump him.

[fathom]

That can be said for about 100% of the managers/coaches in the league. In all sports for that matter but moreso in baseball. I've done it myself after biomechanical analysis of a pitcher after a lab session. That's why players with "potential" bounce from team to team because everyone knows they can fix them.

 

I think your example of MB is premature. He has had only one bad year. Cotts on the other hand has a history of control problems they ironed out for a year. I think they got what they could for him and I'll bet there was some differences between Cooper/Staff and Cotts on either how or what to throw. that may explain the reason to dump him.

 

My statement is more in reference to the infamous "Don't worry, Coop will fix him" clan that existed prior to last season. Cooper is a good pitching coach...but he's not a magician.

[watchtower41]

Are people really still b****ing about losing a guy with an over 5 ERA that couldnt hold a lead if his life depended on it?? Was there an outing without an earned run?? Lets not forget all the runs that were unearned becuase of the shotty d behind Cotts... he was horrible. One career year in 2005 out of this guy and some of you are acting like we lost Dennis Eckersley today....we should be happy he gave us that and send him his walking papers with a smile on our face. I really don't know what KW has to do to somewhat gain the trust of Sox fans. Most of you are crying that we should have got more.... would you had rather released him t o waivers for nothing?? His best YEAR is behind him.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

I know this has probably been mentioned, but the last time the Cubs and Sox made a deal, we came away with some guy named Garland. I think he turned out OK.

 

What does that have to do with anything?

[ptatc]

My statement is more in reference to the infamous "Don't worry, Coop will fix him" clan that existed prior to last season. Cooper is a good pitching coach...but he's not a magician.

 

i agree. I'm just saying that they aren't alone in thinking this. And I'm sure things like Cooper getting exposure on the radio with a regular spot (with 670 last year if I remember right) doesn't diminish that ego at all.

[fathom]

i agree. I'm just saying that they aren't alone in thinking this. And I'm sure things like Cooper getting exposure on the radio with a regular spot (with 670 last year if I remember right) doesn't diminish that ego at all.

 

Don't get us started on the arrogance and ignorance that was displayed during those interviews.

[DBAHO]

Interesting trade, and one I certainly didn't expect to see when I first came on here this morning.

 

Hopefully Aardsma can flourish under Coop like Matt Thornton did last season. Certainly sounds like he has the stuff and velocity to pitch well if he can get his mechanics right and stay healthy.

 

Vazquez adds to our system a bit, and hopefully in a season or 2 he'll be up pitching in our pen.

 

Sad to see Neal go, as he was one of my favorites, but that's the nature of the business. He had a good start to 06, but just got worse as the season went on.

 

Will be very weird seeing him in the Cubs colors, and whether he becomes a starter or goes back to being a good reliever.

 

I'd expect the Sox to sign a LOOGY from the likes of Villone and Ray King now as well, and I wonder if we'll still go after Justin Speier (who should be getting around what Jamie Walker go, or maybe even more).

[Brian]

Thanks for 2005, Neal. You sucked last year, so see ya!

Irelevant trade for me. Look for more eye candy around the bullpen at Wrigley next year.

[RockRaines]

It appears that the sox are picking up the mentality of aquiring as many hard throwers for our pen as we can. As it stands right now, the last 4 guys out of the pen throw 96+

 

I wouldnt be surprised to see KW pick up Speier (whom I like) to complete the back end of the pen with 5 guys who have closer stuff. Throw in some middle relief (haeger, Riske) and we have a nice pen IMO.

[IlliniKrush]

If Coop can 'fix' Aardsma, this is also a very nice insurance policy if Mac has to spend some time on the DL at some point.

[Chisoxfn]

If Coop can 'fix' Aardsma, this is also a very nice insurance policy if Mac has to spend some time on the DL at some point.

If, you mean when Mac spends time on the DL. That alone is why I don't want us to have Haeger in our pen. I'd rather have Haeger pitching every 5 days ready in case a starter goes down.

[Balta1701]

If, you mean when Mac spends time on the DL. That alone is why I don't want us to have Haeger in our pen. I'd rather have Haeger pitching every 5 days ready in case a starter goes down.

The nice thing is...just like last year, where we had a guy at AAA who was almost-ML-ready but not quite, next year, we'll have another guy at AAA who's almost-Major league ready and who is pitching every 5 days, Broadway.

[Whitewashed in '05]

This is bulls***. I can't believe Hendry fleeced KW. I know Cotts wasn't good last season, but give me a f***ing break...ugh.

[ShoeLessRob]

This is bulls***. I can't believe Hendry fleeced KW. I know Cotts wasn't good last season, but give me a f***ing break...ugh.

 

Care to elaborate?