Cotts to the Cubs

[Dick Allen]

His mechanical flaw is the same mechanical flaw he has had since we picked him up from the As. The latin phrase for it is ....nonthrowusstrikustomuchus. He constantly gets behind every hitter, and then whammo.

 

Cotts was bat in 2004, maybe the oddity was 2005 and he became Neal Cotts again. Like uncle cliffy became the same pitcher that was tossed by the bullpen retarded Blue Jays.

 

He has been in the league for how long and hasnt learned how to throw a decent breaking pitch. I mean come on now.

Aardsma seems to have the same problem. At least Cotts has shown he can be very successful at the major league level. KW was talking up Logan and Reynoso today. I'm getting worried.

[Gregory Pratt]

I'm glad that Cotts is gone and, frankly, I think it's for the best. I like Aardsma a lot and I've always thought Cotts a fluke. Hooray!

[pale_hose]

I heard that both guys could be here for a short time and then shipped off...Its just rumor, but who knows...

[santo=dorf]

I for one will root against Cotts hoping he gets sent to AAA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm moving to Des Moines soon.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Care to elaborate?

Hendry has gotten some good players for nothing (Ramirez and Lee.) He got Cotts fresh off a terrible season and gave up nothing from what I've read. These days when pitching is at a premium we should have been able to get better in return.

[nitetrain8601]

I used to love Aardsma, but he's worse than Cotts. At least Cotts was a lefty and showed he could be a very good bullpen arm. David has yet to show that. KW must've been drunken via Jim Hendry.

[beck72]

These are the type of deals KW has done very well on. Neal was horrible vs. the top lefty batters in the AL central--which is his biggest job. I for one will give KW the benefit of the doubt.

[whitesoxfan101]

Hendry has gotten some good players for nothing (Ramirez and Lee.) He got Cotts fresh off a terrible season and gave up nothing from what I've read. These days when pitching is at a premium we should have been able to get better in return.

 

Good point, Cotts is just as good as D Lee and Ramirez. This will be looked back upon as the worst trade in franchise history, and once again shows why Hendry has been such a great GM for years, and KW sucks.

[santo=dorf]

This trade is kinda reminding me of the Thornton trade who ironically made Cotts available.

 

Take a look back at some of the people's reactions from that trade:

 

"He's not very good."

 

"Quite disappointing that we held on to Borchard so long that all we could get is a mediocre reliever that makes Marte look like he has pinpoint control. Oh well"

 

"clocked as high as 97mph with no control

maybe coop can get him under control ala Jenks.

This is a low risk/high reward type move for the sox. If they can get him under control sometime this year, he has a hell of an arm." (This trade has much more risk involved)

 

Thorton's upside is that he has an injury history. The only upside here is maybe he'll blow out his arm again and save us the agony of watching him walk 7 batters/9IP.

 

Do not see any way this trade helps Sox at all.

 

Thornton has had 7 years to learn how to throw strikes. He hasn't figured it out. What makes you think 2 weeks with Coop will suddenly cure him?

 

Read this article: http://ussmariner.com/2006/03/20/bye-bye-matt-thornton/

 

 

Let's give Aardsma a chance. He won't be used in the same way the Cubs used him.

 

About this Vasquez character; Isn't he eligible for the Rule V draft? It's very possible we could lose him leading to more people flipping out about this trade.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Good point, Cotts is just as good as D Lee and Ramirez. This will be looked back upon as the worst trade in franchise history, and once again shows why Hendry has been such a great GM for years, and KW sucks.

Thank you for giving me props.

 

Especially since I did say every word you're making me out to have said. Can't slide one past you, swift.

[Balta1701]

About this Vasquez character; Isn't he eligible for the Rule V draft? It's very possible we could lose him leading to more people flipping out about this trade.

Ok, now that would piss me off. Or if we lost someone like Philipps because we were holding onto this guy. But then again, we do still have open 40 man spots.

[cwsfan13]

This trade is kinda reminding me of the Thornton trade who ironically made Cotts available.

 

Take a look back at some of the people's reactions from that trade:

 

"He's not very good."

 

"Quite disappointing that we held on to Borchard so long that all we could get is a mediocre reliever that makes Marte look like he has pinpoint control. Oh well"

 

"clocked as high as 97mph with no control

maybe coop can get him under control ala Jenks.

This is a low risk/high reward type move for the sox. If they can get him under control sometime this year, he has a hell of an arm." (This trade has much more risk involved)

 

Thorton's upside is that he has an injury history. The only upside here is maybe he'll blow out his arm again and save us the agony of watching him walk 7 batters/9IP.

 

Do not see any way this trade helps Sox at all.

 

Thornton has had 7 years to learn how to throw strikes. He hasn't figured it out. What makes you think 2 weeks with Coop will suddenly cure him?

 

Read this article: http://ussmariner.com/2006/03/20/bye-bye-matt-thornton/

Let's give Aardsma a chance. He won't be used in the same way the Cubs used him.

 

About this Vasquez character; Isn't he eligible for the Rule V draft? It's very possible we could lose him leading to more people flipping out about this trade.

 

Your absolutely right .KW has done less harm and alot of good for this team through trades and Ill give him the benefit of the doubt .

[TLAK]

These are the type of deals KW has done very well on. Neal was horrible vs. the top lefty batters in the AL central--which is his biggest job. I for one will give KW the benefit of the doubt.

That is a very astute comment. I like Cotts but he couldn't do the one job they really needed him to do last year. I, for one, kind of overlooked that until you reminded me.

[RockRaines]

Hendry has gotten some good players for nothing (Ramirez and Lee.) He got Cotts fresh off a terrible season and gave up nothing from what I've read. These days when pitching is at a premium we should have been able to get better in return.

He got Cotts fresh off of a typical season. He had ONE fluke year and was horrendous last year. We received a guy with closer stuff and a LHP prospect. Comparing Cotts to Ramirez and Lee is ridiculous and ignorant IMO.

[Flash Tizzle]

If, you mean when Mac spends time on the DL. That alone is why I don't want us to have Haeger in our pen. I'd rather have Haeger pitching every 5 days ready in case a starter goes down.

Why is it necessary for him to pitch every five days? By the nature of throwing a knuckleball he doesn't require extensive preparation. It's probably the most fluid delivery possible for a pitcher in terms of matching the arms natural motion. He could easily shift from the bullpen to spot-starting.

 

I honestly expect a productive Haeger to pitch 100+ innings out of the bullpen. As we've previously discussed, last years disasterous experiment with McCarthy set back his development. You can't reasonably add a large amount of innings upon Brandon after only going 84 last season. I wouldn't expect our coaching staff to have him exceed a workload of 160-170. Someone should be available, if necessary, to hold a lead into the 7th inning without taxing the other relievers.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Nov 16, 2006 -> 05:02 PM)

 

About this Vasquez character; Isn't he eligible for the Rule V draft? It's very possible we could lose him leading to more people flipping out about this trade.

The list I came across doesn't mention Vasquez, yet it also doesn't cite Health Phillips or Jay Marshal as potential minor league FAs.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/mil...06/index.jsp?#M

 

I'd like to believe Williams isn't dumb enough to acquire a pitching prospect only to lose him during the Rule 5 draft. Especially when there are 5 positions open and players such as Reynoso, Lopez, and Rogowski occupying other spots.

 

These are the type of deals KW has done very well on. Neal was horrible vs. the top lefty batters in the AL central--which is his biggest job. I for one will give KW the benefit of the doubt.

You didn't sound so optimistic about trading Neal in your other thread, why the sudden turnaround in three days? Especially when you noted how Cotts should only be delt for an overwhelming offer, which I don't believe many would consider Aardsma and Vasquez.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[SoxHawk1980]

Long story short:

 

We gave up Cotts for a pitcher who is worse than Riske and a nothing prospect.

 

Cotts is not a great pitcher but in his short major league career, he at least has one excellent season. This trade was pretty much a give away.

[jackie hayes]

Long story short:

 

We gave up Cotts for a pitcher who is worse than Riske and a nothing prospect.

 

Cotts is not a great pitcher but in his short major league career, he at least has one excellent season. This trade was pretty much a give away.

Yer funny...

[beck72]

You didn't sound so optimistic about trading Neal in your other thread, why the sudden turnaround in three days? Especially when you noted how Cotts should only be delt for an overwhelming offer, which I don't believe many would consider Aardsma and Vasquez.

 

I said I'll give KW the benefit of the doubt. His track record of getting good players and giving up his own guys/ prospects has been very solid. He and his staff have been great evaluators of their own talent, whether its guys in the minors or majors. I think Cotts does have value. But if the sox think it's time to cut bait on Neal, who am I to judge. They have the proven track record. If Aardsma can throw more strikes than he has [a slight adjustment here or there, sure], and if Vasquez can throw for the sox in 2007 [which he should] this trade doesn't look so one sided.

[SoxHawk1980]

Yer funny...

Gee thanks. Sometimes the truth is funny.

 

One more thing. The beloved Thornton has had one good major league season. Of course it was this last season and that is all that most fans remember. If KW doesn't add a better lefty reliever and he probably won't, then Thornton will be the lefty set up man, meaning he'll get a lot more high leverage innings than he had last year. Don't be surprised if Thornton isn't exactly lights out next year.

[witesoxfan]

Long story short:

 

We gave up Cotts for a pitcher who is worse than Riske and a nothing prospect.

 

Cotts is not a great pitcher but in his short major league career, he at least has one excellent season. This trade was pretty much a give away.

 

 

thanks for looking at things objectively and basing Aardsma's record as a reliever based off of numbers from his first full year in the league, rather than his stuff and makeup as a pitcher

 

[CWSGuy406]

Gee thanks. Sometimes the truth is funny.

 

One more thing. The beloved Thornton has had one good major league season. Of course it was this last season and that is all that most fans remember. If KW doesn't add a better lefty reliever and he probably won't, then Thornton will be the lefty set up man, meaning he'll get a lot more high leverage innings than he had last year. Don't be surprised if Thornton isn't exactly lights out next year.

 

And that's different from this year how? After about mid-June, Thorton was the #1 lefty in high-leverage situations.

 

We gave up Cotts for a pitcher who is worse than Riske and a nothing prospect.

 

Heh... Great analysis. Good stuff there.

[SoxHawk1980]

thanks for looking at things objectively and basing Aardsma's record as a reliever based off of numbers from his first full year in the league, rather than his stuff and makeup as a pitcher

 

You're welcome.

 

So, you'd rather evaluate a pitcher based on amateur scouting, rather than what he's actually done on the field? Actual performance tells you more than mercurial BS like what someone once said about his stuff and "makeup". "Makeup" is one of the most meaningless words used on this board.

[TLAK]

The Sox are coming perilously close to violating the late Mike Royko's 3 cub rule. Garland, Gload and Ardsma, its getting scary. At least Jon was only in the minors for them so the Sox could get off on a technicallity.

[Whitewashed in '05]

He got Cotts fresh off of a typical season. He had ONE fluke year and was horrendous last year. We received a guy with closer stuff and a LHP prospect. Comparing Cotts to Ramirez and Lee is ridiculous and ignorant IMO.

I don't care about your opinion. I never said Cotts was as good as them. MY take on the trade is that bullpen help should be able to net us better and I think that Hendry, like other times, has gotten good talent in return for nothing.

[SoxHawk1980]

And that's different from this year how? After about mid-June, Thorton was the #1 lefty in high-leverage situations.

Did you actually watch Sox games this season? Until September, Guillen routinely used Cotts as the #1 lefty in high leverage situations. That is just a fact, and it is a fact that was complained about on this forum on a daily basis.

 

Heh... Great analysis. Good stuff there.

Thanks! Aardsma is worse than Riske, with a track record to prove it. Look at Aardsma's stats. Look at the fact that he has a good, but not great fastball and no decent second pitch. And show me even one source that says the throw in Vazquez is even a decent prospect.