Freddy to Angels?

[Gene Honda Civic]

Stewart has very little experiance in catching Haeger... basicly as much as Pierzynski has.

Not to mention the fact that he posted a .600 OPS against LHP in AAA, and looked like Brian ANderson on Dramamine at the plate during his brief time with the big club.

[WCSox]

Somebody miss my post. Freddy was "halfway decent" at the Cell this year? His numbers at the Cell were better than Santana's overall numbers, and his 2005 numbers (which you call not very good) aren't too far from Santana's this past season. We're not talking about "several years ago" here. We're talking about the past 2 and a half seasons.

 

What are you trying to say about Ervin?

 

You're missing my point. I wasn't comparing Freddy to Santana. And I'll buy your argument that Freddy might be even better than Santana right now. But I don't think that'll be the case in another year or two.

[witesoxfan]

Aside from last year, he hits lefties pretty well, career CS% of 43%, and Hawk always talks about how clutch he is. Anybody (Chisofn?) know much about his game calling?

 

I really don't know how much game-calling matters for backup catchers, seeing as how it's 10x easier to just look over the bench after every pitch. If he can hit lefties, and he has a cannon, he should be looked at as a backup catching option for next year.

 

 

Rowand...good thought on Fields. The Angels seem to still be in need of a 3Bman, and they could perhaps view Fields as their guy coming out of ST, depending of course upon what they thought of him.

[fathom]

I will say it again, we have an in house option that plays above avg defensively and can catch the knuckler and throw out runners-Stewart.

 

And would likely hit about .150. We need more offense against the tough lefty pitchers in our division.

[RockRaines]

And would likely hit about .150. We need more offense against the tough lefty pitchers in our division.

I dont know how important the offense is for a guy who may play once every two weeks. I would rather have someone who can call a good game and slow down the running game.

[CWSGuy406]

What are you trying to say about Ervin?

 

What are you trying to say about Ervin? He's pitched about 135 innings on the road. Are you saying those innings have any predictive value whatsoever? You honestly believe he's going to be a six ERA pitcher going forward because his road stats (which, as I said, are in an extremely limited sample)?

 

Maybe you're not meaning that, but it sure seems like you're indicating that you'd strongly dislike a Garcia for Santana trade.

 

BTW, call me crazy, I'd throw in Fields even if we didn't get anything back besides Santana. One year of Garcia + Six years of Josh Fields for what, four years of Ervin Santana? Hellzz yes, although I don't really like Fields as a prospect, so maybe that clouds my judgement.

[fathom]

I dont know how important the offense is for a guy who may play once every two weeks. I would rather have someone who can call a good game and slow down the running game.

 

It's very important. We need all the offense we can get against the likes of C.C., Santana, and the other tough lefties in our division. With our current rotation, having a good throwing catcher isn't that important since most of them can't hold a runner to save their life.

[CWSGuy406]

I dont know how important the offense is for a guy who may play once every two weeks. I would rather have someone who can call a good game and slow down the running game.

 

The past two seasons, our backup catchers have a combined average of ~135 ABs per season. That's more than a month's worth for any normal position player. Considering our starter is a lefty, and that the main offensive weakness on this team is it's lack of production vs southpaws, I'd consider getting a backup catcher who can do something with this stick vs lefties is QUITE important. Just look north at what the backups for Minny and to a lesser extent Detroit have done for their teams.

[RockRaines]

The past two seasons, our backup catchers have a combined average of ~135 ABs per season. That's more than a month's worth for any normal position player. Considering our starter is a lefty, and that the main offensive weakness on this team is it's lack of production vs southpaws, I'd consider getting a backup catcher who can do something with this stick vs lefties is QUITE important. Just look north at what the backups for Minny and to a lesser extent Detroit have done for their teams.

Well you can think that way if you choose. IMO the problem with us hitting LHP isnt going to be solved or even partially solved by a backup catcher.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are you trying to say about Ervin? He's pitched about 135 innings on the road. Are you saying those innings have any predictive value whatsoever? You honestly believe he's going to be a six ERA pitcher going forward because his road stats (which, as I said, are in an extremely limited sample)?

 

Maybe you're not meaning that, but it sure seems like you're indicating that you'd strongly dislike a Garcia for Santana trade.

 

BTW, call me crazy, I'd throw in Fields even if we didn't get anything back besides Santana. One year of Garcia + Six years of Josh Fields for what, four years of Ervin Santana? Hellzz yes, although I don't really like Fields as a prospect, so maybe that clouds my judgement.

IMO Santana isn't a lock to live up the expectations. Yes he will probably get better, and yes we would have him under control for some time, but we don't have time to expect two youngsters develop into our rotation.

 

Trading for Santana doesn't solve our rotation issues. We would still have to trade another starter.

 

Some more on Jose Molina; he's already signed for next season at only $1.25 million, and here's the latest rotoworld blurb on him

 

The Angels were reportedly unhappy with Jose Molina's "conditioning efforts" last season and could trade or release him if he shows up to spring training out of shape.

 

The team is reportedly still high on catching prospect Jeff Mathis despite sending him down after a slow start last year, but at this point the job remains Mike Napoli's to lose.

Source: Los Angeles Times

[Chisoxfn]

Mathis is a superior all around prospect to Napoli. Napoli is solid but not near as hyped as he was. That said I think he's a good all around catcher, but Mathis has the chance to be one of the better backstops in the game.

 

Oh and I'd be all over Molina. He's just another version of Henry Blanco, except he's better with the stick.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well you can think that way if you choose. IMO the problem with us hitting LHP isnt going to be solved or even partially solved by a backup catcher.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to fill a hole (back up catcher) with a guy who has a gun, can throw out runners and is only signed pretty cheap for one more year. It won't fix the whole LHP problem, but it would certainly help.

[southsideirish71]

What are you trying to say about Ervin? He's pitched about 135 innings on the road. Are you saying those innings have any predictive value whatsoever? You honestly believe he's going to be a six ERA pitcher going forward because his road stats (which, as I said, are in an extremely limited sample)?

 

Maybe you're not meaning that, but it sure seems like you're indicating that you'd strongly dislike a Garcia for Santana trade.

 

BTW, call me crazy, I'd throw in Fields even if we didn't get anything back besides Santana. One year of Garcia + Six years of Josh Fields for what, four years of Ervin Santana? Hellzz yes, although I don't really like Fields as a prospect, so maybe that clouds my judgement.

 

 

I am with you on this, if you can send Freddy and his 86 mph fastball and large amount of money he is going to get and you can replace it with a pitcher of Erwin's ilk, who is young.

 

Think about it this way, you are starting to build a younger cheaper rotation that can compete in our tough pitching division for years.

 

Sign me up for the where can I sign club.

 

And people are actually arguing to keep Freddy, not to be too rude, what the f*** are they smoking. Did they or did they not watch him pitch last year. How many times did this guy dog it against a team that he couldnt get up for, because it was beneath him.

[daa84]

ive said this over and over....the way stewart hit last year at AAA, he was closer to deserving a demotion than a promotion

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 17, 2006 -> 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And people are actually arguing to keep Freddy, not to be too rude, what the f*** are they smoking. Did they or did they not watch him pitch last year. How many times did this guy dog it against a team that he couldnt get up for, because it was beneath him.

Freddy Garcia was arguably our best pitcher last season, yet people are so quick to kick him to the curb.

How many times did he step it up big time when we neede him the most? Judging by his record and numbers with the Sox, it happened a lot more time than the situation you are mentioning.

[SoxFan562004]

Freddy Garcia was arguably our best pitcher last season, yet people are so quick to kick him to the curb.

How many times did he step it up big time when we neede him the most? Judging by his record and numbers with the Sox, it happened a lot more time than the situation you are mentioning.

Freddy really is "Big Game Freddy". He shows up when it is an important game, and IMO winning the clincher of the World Series raised the stakes for what he considers a big game

[Gene Honda Civic]

Freddy Garcia was arguably our best pitcher last season, yet people are so quick to kick him to the curb.

How many times did he step it up big time when we neede him the most? Judging by his record and numbers with the Sox, it happened a lot more time than the situation you are mentioning.

Freddy had just 2 quality starts against AL opponents from June 7th to September 7th. The Sox went from half a game back on June 7th, to 10 game back in August, to 5.5 back on September 7th.

 

It would have been nice if Garcia had chosen to be clutch for, you know, that half of the season.

[Dick Allen]

Freddy Garcia was arguably our best pitcher last season, yet people are so quick to kick him to the curb.

How many times did he step it up big time when we neede him the most? Judging by his record and numbers with the Sox, it happened a lot more time than the situation you are mentioning.

Considering Freddy's ERA was over 5.00 most of the season until the end when he strung together some nice outings only to have the White Sox finish 3rd, and his admitting that he doesn't "get up" for lesser opponents, indicates to me that he didn't step up when the White Sox needed him. Santana won 16 games, and had an ERA lower than Freddy's and makes $8 million less than him. The Angels would be crazy making the trade, and I think DeLuca is full of s***. Garcia is going to get even more money in 2008 and beyond if he's halfway decent next year.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Freddy Garcia was arguably our best pitcher last season, yet people are so quick to kick him to the curb.

How many times did he step it up big time when we neede him the most? Judging by his record and numbers with the Sox, it happened a lot more time than the situation you are mentioning.

 

Freddy's ERA was over 5 all year long before that last little run of his to end the season. Anybody from John Kruk to Cecil Fielder could've swiped a base off him last year. Look, I like Freddy. I really do. But he's never gonna be the same pitcher again with the decrease in his velocity. He's still better than average. He can be dominant on some nights. But the Freddy from Seattle, or even his first couple years with the Sox, is gone. If we can get a stud like Santana from him, you have to do it.

 

Considering Freddy's ERA was over 5.00 most of the season until the end when he strung together some nice outings only to have the White Sox finish 3rd, and his admitting that he doesn't "get up" for lesser opponents, indicates to me that he didn't step up when the White Sox needed him. Santana won 16 games, and had an ERA lower than Freddy's and makes $8 million less than him. The Angels would be crazy making the trade, and I think DeLuca is full of s***. Garcia is going to get even more money in 2008 and beyond if he's halfway decent next year.

 

That sealed his fate as far as I'm concerned. Even if that's how you really feel, YOU NEVER ACTUALLY ADMIT IT! No way in hell Kenny/Ozzie will tolerate that bulls***. Freddy for Santana? See ya, Freddy!

[witesoxfan]

Freddy's ERA was over 5 all year long before that last little run of his to end the season. Anybody from John Kruk to Cecil Fielder could've swiped a base off him last year. Look, I like Freddy. I really do. But he's never gonna be the same pitcher again with the decrease in his velocity. He's still better than average. He can be dominant on some nights. But the Freddy from Seattle, or even his first couple years with the Sox, is gone. If we can get a stud like Santana from him, you have to do it.

 

You can truthfully say that about all of our starters.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You can truthfully say that about all of our starters.

 

True.

[southsideirish71]

Freddy Garcia was arguably our best pitcher last season, yet people are so quick to kick him to the curb.

How many times did he step it up big time when we neede him the most? Judging by his record and numbers with the Sox, it happened a lot more time than the situation you are mentioning.

 

 

His clutch ass had a 5.72 ERA in August and a 5.52 ERA in July. That was the clutch part of the season when we went from being 6 games up on the wild card to running behind. He s*** the bed in the bronx when we needed him to be clutch. It was on the road, during the day against a good team. Well they were depositing dongs over the fence. We needed him to pitch well when the season was on the line, not after the entire thing was pretty much done.

 

But he decided to show up in september after pretty much the entire thing was put to bed. Thanks for showing up Mr. 86mph.

[santo=dorf]

Freddy Garcia had a 5.45 ERA on May 8th. A great outing against the Angels dropped it to 4.64. His ERA didn't hit 5 again until a poor Sunday night performance against the Indians on June 11th.

 

So that's an entire month of NOT having above 5 like some of you are claiming. On Jun 22 his great performance against the World Champion Cardinals got it below 5 again. It didn't go back over 5 (5.07) until his Yankee outing on Jul 16th. So there's 3 more weeks of it not being over 5.

He would drop his ERA again and it didn't reach 5 (5.05) until August 29th. That's another 5 weeks with it below 5.

After his near perfect bid against the Angels his ERA was below 5 again.

 

So this stretch of season some of you describing (I'm starting with May 9th before Cheat's time frame) was 32 Days out of 144. Hardly "Most of the season"

 

For some perspective, Jon Garland's ERA didn't see the south of 5.00 until JULY 23rd!!! It then went back to 5.01 after his next start, and hit 5.16 on August 9th yet he continues to get a free pass.

Edited November 17, 2006 by santo=dorf

[WCSox]

Santana won 16 games, and had an ERA lower than Freddy's and makes $8 million less than him. The Angels would be crazy making the trade, and I think DeLuca is full of s***.

 

That about says it all.

[elrockinMT]

I always saw Freddie Garcia take his turn on the mound, battle all the way even when he wasn't good, and come back ready to go again in 5 days. It seems like the fact the Sox didn't win in 2006 was all Freddie's fault when reading thsen posts. If one guy is to blame then who do we blame for failing to win 1960 through 2004? I think he was hurt some of last year and that was the problem. 2007 will be better for all our pitchers.